-Totenkopf- Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 You had never fought a tracker ranger' date=' then.[/quote'] Was no such thing in my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Oh' date=' and if you're suggesting people make ninjas/thieves JUST to screw with a character...that's inflicting STRONG ooc reasons and doesn't do well in promoting rp. I've done it and I've seen it done.[/quote'] Wait, I thought that's what Goomf was for? To screw with and piss the hell out of everyone with.... ...GOOOOOOOMF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goomf Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Wait, I thought that's what Goomf was for? To screw with and piss the hell out of everyone with.... ...GOOOOOOOMF! Well, no not technically. GOOOOMMMMFFFF was created because everyone was bagging on gnomes. I just thought that a gnome thief would be fun..AFTERWARDS I decided to go around screwing characters. Notice the premise and conclusion. Also, I wrote specific character. I didn't create goomf just to go after...who the bloody hell was around back then... but you see my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Was no such thing in my day. No, but you remember Hunters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Man I have read this topic, every single person all eight pages and I am really pissed off I wasn't in this discussion. Vampires are cake people, though I've never actually killed one, ever... I have fought about eight and taken them all in a very long and fun fight. Now Martineius is one powerful mofo, but he isn't really a threat to anyone now is he? Has he ever came after you unless you were wanted or anything like that? No, he hasn't. In fact I can tell you now that he has very few pks under his belt.(which is wack) if you wan't to kill a vampire it isn't ganging him that will do it. Ganging is cheap and everyone knows this. Unless it's cabal vs. cabal and I haven't been in a cabal war that didn't involve 2 on one, unless it was 2 on four with me being one of the two. And it's all fun and games till you get full looted eh? Everyone complains and yeah I do too, but that will always be a part of this mud no matter what happens, the imms could come down and give everyone a rare item and people would complain that they didn't get full adeptus. All you losers need to suck it up and roll clerics. Then you go take out vamps and necros(btw have you seen all the necros!) Just wait, soon there will be tribunal lichs and all you pansies will wet yourselves, it's gonna be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 What you say is true. We are talking about strictly PK at the moment. The only time the IMMs have ever encouraged ganging was in defense of your standard, i.e. Nexus attacking Knight altar should expect any and all Knights online to swarm them. -quoted by Chayesh Untrue. Penalized for ganging when I was first inducted with Dyendas for doing the exact same thing, defending our altar. The major problem I have, with these IMMs and all the former ones, is there is always individual oppinions that they all seem to have guiding the way they IMM. Meaning they can penalize you for something they believe is against the rules, or against proper conduct, that another IMM doesn't. I've seen it done, I've had it done, and it is, frankly unfair. This whole discussion has really began at about the time Araye was outlawed, then a few others followed as well. I'll quote some examples to back my points up, and in no way am flaming at all. Dyendas and Martineius had some AMAZING fights. Some of the logs are gems to look over. One fight we had was in Gal Ranidon. Trapped in the city, vamp skilled and cabal skilled, Dyendas was basically toast. Finally managing to get away during the dawn of day only to be replaced by another three Tribunal, without the time to even heal. Now, as this is the accepted conduct of the Tribunals, I will accept it and move on, however, I will simply say that, if you are going to do such, and yes Martin, you could have called them off but didn't, you are going to get ganged. How is it fair to put that much pressure on a single opponant who isn't even T of a cabal and not expect some form of gang. Fortuantly for you however, Dyendas had 1. very strict cabal imm who would slay me if I got back up, and 2. a very strict avatar imm who would not have even looked at me if I called back up. Now, Araye for instance. Araye and Marty had some really good fights as well. For instance during that so called 3 on 1, Araye took your standard while you were being fought. And, after you fled to exactally where I knew you were, I came alone, and not once mentioned on cabal chat where you were. You did well and got the capture. However, there were situations where I saw a wanted ogre, uncaballed, being taken down by a trib and four militia, myself a trib and three militia. This was before ANY of the 'do everything to kill tribs' vibe started within sacred oak. Now, before people start shouting, realize that THIS IS MY 'version' of the story, as I did witness these events. And when this stuff happens, there is no choice but to get help. Not everyone plays here to WIN pk. Some play for the RP, the enjoyment, the fufillment of playing a successful char, and some to meet friends. On both of my pinns I went for for Marty ALONE, as soon as I pinned. I decked out, and did it again. I agree with Raargant when he said that about older players deciding to resort to asking for help before even trying, and really hope he wasn't talking about me. However, I hope as well you take into consideration the fact that even in a win/tie on the part of the criminal there are five other active tribs and upwards 5 active militia who want to prove themselves to you, all ready to attack when they see a criminal, wanted OR outlawed, in an area alone. I guess what I really want to say is, the imms who have responded have knocked the ganging idea. Understood. But where is the help for the outlaw taking all three? Or the props to them for at least trying to fight the best pk'er in the game? How about the new players and even the medio. players who have outlawed themselves for their RP? For example the new ogre sacred oak, Yew(something). Taking on three plus tribs/militia. If you are not getting props in game, all I have to say is out of game you are. It'll make you one hell of a player if you keep it up, and Eshaine deffinatly rewards balls. So keep it up. I'm done now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icor Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 ...I don't know anything about Vampires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I wasn't talking about you at all. For the record, by the way, and you can quote me on this later, I will never, EVER, penalize anyone in a cabal for getting backup if they are getting ganged, so long as they do it in the proper fashion. IE, forming a group of three and killing them one by one=not acceptable. Calling two buddies and saying, "You get that guy, you get this guy. That guy is mine." Totally, totally acceptable in my book, and honestly, that's what I think good cabal/group warfare should be like. Just so long as if your buddies beat the other guys, the three of you don't join up again and pound the crap out of the guy who is left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 gang on gang is the advanced warfare expected from cabal members Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Riiiight...so two militia jumping into a 3 vs 1 to even the odds is justification for you to jump into a 1 vs 1? I think your math skills are on the fritz there. "I dunno" is not the answer to have. Uhh, not the same senerio I was talking about. I was not even fighting in that senerio, when I came into town, it was TWO vs Martineius, and I know it could not have been long because one of them logged on AFTER me, and I was just attack by marty 2-3 minutes before. I got ganked by milita for being there I suppose. The point is, if someone atatcks me, and I run to prepare, and come back and they are fighting someone else, guess they should have killed me first. Milita got in trouble for helping Valione even when it was Dorg and Bickles and Nortak running around chasing me. I never once asked for it either. I took ti and was told "thats what justices get and thats why they get the skills they do." I guess that has changed for tribunal but w/e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grosek_ Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 The issue here really shouldn't be whether or not its right to gang a character if they're too strong to take 1 on 1. Are they really as tough as you believe? Or is it more likely that ANY character that realizes that they a command that both initiates battle and creates a very pretty meat shield for themselves with no lag to themselves is going to be hell to deal with? (Unless of course this has changed since Justice was around, and hopefully that isn't too much information about what justice/trib can do) You might say 'Just don't get wanted and you won't have to deal with it.' The problem there is that any cabal with a vendetta against Tribunal is affectively outlawed, or kicked from their cabal for not defending or retreiving their standard when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Cant remember who mentioned it, but yes, there is an issue with rules between immortals varying. I often got in trouble for trivial things that was fine by every other immortal staff member. But I guess such is life. In regards to ganging, when I first started playing here many years you never heard anything about gangbangs. Noone bitched and moaned, but you knew if you did it, then it was fair game, and you could expect it in return. On my CHAOS leader I was gang banged by a couple of savant BMG's. Afterwards myself and Cirous chased them down. Then Dunlith was sprouting crap, myself and Cirous went after him (I was naked apart from my malform at the time) and we took him down. On the other hand I got ganked by 3 knight members, more then once, and I didn't bitch and moan, back then it just seemed to be generally accepted that in cabal warfare it was fair game. I guess following the old saying, all is fair in love and war. Generally, if you saw a couple of people that were enemy headed in your direction together, you took off, and worked out a strategy to get them split, added a bit more of an adrenaline rush to the game. On the other hand, there should also be boundaries, as it can get out of hand. I was ganged by 7 well clad characters once on one of my characters, I actually had the ability to run (fled out of bash lock from a few large characters, thank god for dexterity) but I wanted to finish one character in particular, so I guess my demise in that situation was actually partially my fault. But, there was no way they needed 7 characters to take that character down. So I don't know, I have mixed opinions. People often bitched at me about gang banging, and I personally think that the definition of gang banging has become too broad. I got whined at constantly about saving fellow cabal mates arse (basically they were getting whiped and were on the run from the enemy, and I intercepted). Now I don't really consider this gang banging. Firstly, on that particular character (slith warrior knight leader) I had no need to gang bang, this was sliths pre-debuff, the character was a powerhouse, secondly the character wasn't in direct combat with my ally. If they'd have been keeping alert they would have seen me coming anyhow, and had time to retreat. I think the primary reason for so much complaint when this happened was not that they'd just been gang banged (as they wish to call it), but that they just missed out on a kill they were almost garunteed to get. Probably also would have noticed a trend that this only generally happened on my good aligned characters, and most certainly not on any of my undead or vampire characters (well not that I can remember). Anyway, my 2c, im sitting here, bored, whilst my GF plays stupid video games on the television. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-D&Der Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 WC the MUD you are talking about was a very different place with a small and tight-knit p-base, so ganging could be done in a way that didn't really ruin the game for anybody and that fit into RP and cabal warfare. The problem was the flexibility with regard to ganging a couple of years ago devolved into a situation where everyone was ganging at every level, so the IMMs had to ban it outright for a while. Then it was restored with the caveat that it was discouraged in general and would be punished at low levels. Now I think one of the problems with this is that in certain situations where ganging might have been called for old school it's still discouraged. Now as for the change to healers, yes the compensation they got made up for it for healers, but the real change in balance was to vampires, who now have a comfort zone they didn't have before. It's like in rock paper scissors you took paper out of the game, and rock can just go bashing the crap out of all the scissors. Yes healers still have an advantage against vamps, but Marty's RP has pretty much neutralized that threat--and I hope the IMMs have given about as much time as they are going to give to the healers who are indulging in that crap. Why did this happen with healers? I'm told there was abuse of gate, which I would wager occurred as a result of admitting healers in Knight, which I always thought was strange. So take healers out of Knight and give them their old gate back. Seeing vampires sitting around in plain sight like that just seems wrong to me. It never used to be that easy for them. Ranger tracker yes but no better than (in fact not as good as) old Hunters as Pali observed. Finally in terms of IMMs never encouraging gang-banging outside of capturing a standard, I'll tell you right now that on the old prayer forum I was encouraged to gang bang a certain vampire when he was uber-decked, but I didn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 WC the MUD you are talking about was a very different place with a small and tight-knit p-base' date=' so ganging could be done in a way that didn't really ruin the game for anybody and that fit into RP and cabal warfare.[/quote'] Actually, as I recall, we had more players online on average back then than we do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I don't see the problem in ganging in cabals, I see the problem is that clans are now helping gang the cabals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I am not sure anyone has pointed this out' date=' but if you read that help file it says group vs group, not group verses one. If you come back and tell me a single person (and their related skills of course) qualifies as a group, you need help.[/quote'] Have you ever fought a bloodguard? Id rather fight plathar and raniklu without bloodguards then either of them with one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 *cough* ninjas *cough* EQ circulation is reason number one for ninjas, dear Morathi. I know multiple ninjhas who got wanetd because tribunal swore they were studing, and I still cant figure how they proove that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teralis Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 detect magic my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-D&Der Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Also there shouldn't be ganging of outlaws, as opposed to wanteds. While it's legal to attack outlaws in town, ganging them should be discouraged just as it is for any other character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Also there shouldn't be ganging of outlaws' date=' as opposed to wanteds. While it's legal to attack outlaws in town, ganging them should be discouraged just as it is for any other character.[/quote'] You cant evcen attack plan outlaws, I was told I would be wanted for having my weapon unseathed. ********** **** * * ** * * *!!! oh and sorry for the multiple posts up there, wanted to make sure I quoted everyone I needed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chayesh Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Let me just be clear about what I said since I've already been quoted inaccurately twice. I said, in response to Pali's question, that cabaled persons are only encouraged to gang in defense of their standard. I never said, no one's ever been encouraged to gang by an IMM or that a cabal IMM hasn't ever told someone not to gang and punished them for it. Cabal IMMs can set the tone for their cabal as they like. If they believe that ganging is either uncalled for or doesn't fit the cabal's RP, they can say "no ganging ever". It's up to them. There was a definite context to my statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Wait... Tribunals can want you for STUDYING?! You're not even attacking anyone. That's like wanting a cleric for having holy hands up, because they're weapons that can't be sheathed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Wait... Tribunals can want you for STUDYING?! You're not even attacking anyone. That's like wanting a cleric for having holy hands up' date=' because they're weapons that can't be sheathed.[/quote'] They do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Tribunal =/ Justice Tribunal = Empire They make and pass their own laws. One of the laws that was passed was to criminalize studying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Yeah, I know... still... man. That sucks for ninjas... and assassinate was already toned... no wonder there are so few these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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