Raargant Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Toned? Assassinate got buffed pretty nicely with the new lores, IMO, or do you refer to years ago? Also...if you stay hidden, and they don't know you are there, they can't mark you, can they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Toned? Assassinate got buffed pretty nicely with the new lores, IMO, or do you refer to years ago? Also...if you stay hidden, and they don't know you are there, they can't mark you, can they. Well now yes they can, think about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Even if you can be seen, just break the study fast if you see anyone who can sense you headed your way. It's more than doable. Just have more patience, and don't try for a full study at once. Heck, even study an hour, meditate, works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Even if you can be seen, just break the study fast if you see anyone who can sense you headed your way. It's more than doable. Just have more patience, and don't try for a full study at once. Heck, even study an hour, meditate, works. Hes always there... You cant study someone who can sence you studing and then want you for it. Its rediculous. (sp?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 You can. More than a few vampires have been assassinated in the past. Just takes patience and skill. Moreover, even if you can't assassinate him, you can always study/assassinate his cabal mates. EDIT: Since this has turned into a general discussion on so many things, I'm moving it to the General Discussions forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 RED MARKERED! RAARGANT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I see one ninja in particular doing it. And they ONLY study if Marty is IN town. That way they know exactally where he is, and he isn't going to pop out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted February 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 RED MARKERED! RAARGANT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chayesh Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Let's just stay away from discussing cabal skills. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Sorry, I thought if it was about a cabal that no longer exists it was ok. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 One last thing I was just having a think about, I think with the removal of the vampires COOL ability would bring vampires more into line with the ability of other classes. The skill is totally unrequired for a vampire to be a powerhouse. Either that or increase its cooldown, as it stands its far too short and can be used far too frequently. Once every 3 or 4 days would be more then enough. Playing so many vampires I consider it a fairly lame arse ability. I killed many many many people purely because they didn't know the ability existed. In theory, I think it shouldn't exist at all, partially nulls the huge vulnerability that a vampire SHOULD have to be so powerful under the right conditions. Hope I have been vague enough, if not, feel free to edit or remove any info therein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greased Weasel Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Dear sweet god vamps arent invincable, theyve been if memory serves, mostly unchanged since 1.0, and back then they could have a big scary justice guard too...not to mention old savant abilities *shudder* I give cutos to Marty for the bang up job he's doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 And I know that possibly more then anyone else Greased Weasel. I've played >5 of them. Hell, I've beat down decked vamps with mithril on warriors, both slith and ogre. What I was saying is that it gives vampires a strength they do not require. They are more then capable to hide away when they need to, and I think if they are unlucky enough to be found in these cases, they should have little to no means of surviving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iyorvin Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I agree with you Tot. It basically nulifies the whole vampire RP when they get that skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goomf Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 To quote an imm when I asked them about changes.. "Vamp skills are what they are. I don't believe we have any plans to change them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I agree with you Tot. It basically nulifies the whole vampire RP when they get that skill. Yay, someone that might actually know what im talking about agrees Another thing I think should also be changed (due to the gate change to healers which used to render this tactic very dangerous) is that upon daybreak they revert. Right now just makes it fair to easy to sit around during the day and be aware of your surroundings, and not be in any danger of taking a stake in the back. Or being found with your pants down. Vampires are MEANT to be very vulnerable during the day, the way a few of there current abilities work all but nullify this vulnerability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greased Weasel Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 ...You know I think i only two vamps in all my time on FL who've ever taken a ride on the wooden pole...well all I know of anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 You know what, I staked a vampire on Alesus my crusader, and he still farkin got away. It isn't even a garunteed kill. I know ummm, storm cleric 1.0 (come on fill me in, maybe IB4M's character) staked a vampire once. Okay, I better start being careful, prolly revealing a bit too much, apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greased Weasel Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 The stormy cleric is one of the ones I know, and the second is myself my first vamp and I got the shaft...literaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I think people aren't taking into enough consideration the entirety of the changes from 1.0 to now. They've definitely resulted in an overall detriment to vampire strength (and in some areas, vampires have been directly toned down as well). For example, healers can no longer gate to vampires, yes...but realistically speaking, healers have a chance to actually do some damage to vampires now, due to ability of having prot shield/divine retribution up at the same time. Furthermore, more than a few things can the gate spell. All in all, healer potency vs vampires has definitely increased. Paladins, from being a vampires whipping boy back in 1.0, are now one of the more dangerous concerns of a vampire, due to the addition of mounted combat, making them both difficult to lag, and able to toss out a great deal of damage/lag at one blow. Also, a MAJOR source of increased pain in general, for those who know/think about it, is a certain type of weapon that was once hard to find nodisarm versions of, but which now is -easily- made nodisarm due to sockets, which more than gives vampires headaches and weakens them, especially against some of their natural banes. Clerics, after having lost the 'light' type damage from ray of truth, now have it again, once more making them incredibly dangerous to vampires (this was one of my own suggestions to Iru from some time ago, when we were testing a few things out). Rangers, both with the fired arrows (We've run some tests with certain holy-damage arrows, and they HURT vampires a good deal; this also helps out warriors even more), gain an enormous advantage against vampires, especially the tracker type. And, of course, many classes have gained in strength in general, from thiefs with their traps (Which, under the right circumstances, can make thief vs vampire PK actually viable; we watched Nesaren fight vampires many times, and he did surprisingly well), to clerics with their DI (ask any vamp with low saves exactly how much some of them hurt), and more; every single time a class is toned up, other classes, with respect to it, become weaker (obviously). On the whole, vampires have much more to be wary about nowadays than before. I think the biggest mistake people make when discussing qclasses is expecting them to be 'balanced' in the sense that they are supposed to be on par with the other classes. They aren't. They are supposed to be, when played properly, above the other classes in strength, in one way or another. Vampires have high output, but when caught offguard or in a bad situation, a high risk of dying as well. Crusaders, on the other hand, have less offensive, but can be incredibly, incredibly hard to kill (remember Iru talking about his human, Corim, with -1k AC and good saves?). So keep that in mind whenever discussing qclasses; they are supposed to be very, very powerful, when played properly to their potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I had around that sort of ac on my crusader, wicked hit/dam, nice saves, and Seium absolutely walked all over me. If you noticed any changes I mentioned don't directly affect the vampires fighting ability or weaken them directly. They could still kill just as effectively and quickly. I've never had too many issues with any of the listed classes (minus unusually well equipped paladins, of which still had minimal chance of actually dying too. But you have some valid points Raargant, the only point I was getting at is that it is near impossible to find a vampire in one of those 'unforunately/bad' situations that you speak of, you're more likely to kill a vampire in the middle of the night currently by purely outfighting them, to find them with their pants down in the day time and slaughter them. I can't personally remember (though it was long ago) that I was killed on one of my vampires with my pants down. More often then not it was purely that I was outgunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I didn't mention changes that directly affect the vampires fighting ability, because that would be qclass info, but some of them have occurred. Also, let's just say that something...new...was added that, under certain situations, will make life HELL for vampires. I promise. Seium was Virigoth's, and yes, I've heard some crazy stories about her. None of which, I think, anyone else has ever been able to replicate. Coders always tend to bring things out to their absolute potential, and vampires always were Viri's babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I also don't think Viri's vampire was just your average vampire either. I didn't play my crusader after that death, it was just too demoralising. Huge hit and dam roll, crusading against vampires, HUGE ac, vanguard, vuln weapon, and I was dealing injures-wounds with him, his cool vamp skills did all the right things in all the right order. I still got the log on my other pc (which is currently screwed). My crusader was decked to the hilt at that point in time, and I don't think I even got Seium to quite a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Yeah, Viri is on a totally other level. His vamps don't count, heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Yeah' date=' Viri is on a totally other level. His vamps don't count, heh.[/quote'] Yeah I knew it was Viri after that fight, I'd been near invincible for some time prior to that, and he knocked me over like I was a lvl 5 faerie warrior Oh well, all in good fun, wish I put up more of a fight though I guess I really cant comment on vampires in their current state also, I haven't been around here for a good couple of years, nor do I know any techical little changes that've happened behind the scenes to vampires. Just remember that when a few little changes happened when Seium was about to strengthen vampires, that I again noticed when I played my last vampire Amediarn, some of which were totally uncalled for. I'd mention them but I cant, but basically some of the vampires most powerful abilities were made even more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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