a Warning!! (caution..rant..)

[Kyzarius]

/begin Rare Rant

Look, this is getting old.

The next person who comes back with the threat to any of my characters that is any permutation of the below while ignoring any other communication or interaction...

"I will take your things!"

"I will leave you naked forever!"

"Your things will be mine for eternity"

or..

"Why did you take my things!"

"at least leave my armor" (since I usually take one or two items and some supplies)

Will become an exception to my current personal rule to never full loot and autosac people I kill.

Your character just DIED, DEATH, CORPSE on the ground. Your THINGS are NOT the most important thing. I am so tired of seein characters of varying guilds and varying class/align/ethos all with the same "ohh noes my stuff!" rp. Get over it. You wanna threaten death to someone...threaten it, you wanna go after someone wth a personal vengeance because they killed you!! then woot for you! But enough with the finger shaking "ohh Im onna loot you bad!" crap..

/end rant

This post was inspired by many and focused on not one single character.

[killalou]

rofl!

[Quigt]

"Why did you take my things!"

That's a valid question. Because if you reply and say "Because you're a ." without any interaction previous to the PK session, then you've basically just admitted to using OOC information via wholist to determine the alignment of a character, which is not a justifiable grounds for PK. I don't mean to say that killing another character because they walk the polar opposite path is wrong, only that it's perfectly okay for your victims to ask your motive, and that you shouldn't say "Because you're a walker of ." without any interaction before the PK.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

I vote to get rid of wholist altogether.

[HBwillie]

how badass would that be, except for the uber pwning rogues would do. no who list, wowza!

[Deykari]

That's a valid question. Because if you reply and say "Because you're a ." without any interaction previous to the PK session' date=' then you've basically just admitted to using OOC information via wholist to determine the alignment of a character, which is not a justifiable grounds for PK. I don't mean to say that killing another character because they walk the polar opposite path is wrong, only that it's perfectly okay for your victims to ask your motive, and that you shouldn't say "Because you're a walker of ." without any interaction before the PK.[/quote']

I think what he's getting at is that a lot of people, when asking "Why did you take my things?" mean it in a "You suck for looting me!" sort of way as opposed to a genuine way of forming some roleplay. There's nothing wrong with asking somebody their motives for killing you provided it's done IN CHARACTER and only if your character would ask that normally - some people let OOC anger show through instead, and ask as the player (or as the player shrouded by IC language).

Dey

[Deykari]

Because if you reply and say "Because you're a ." without any interaction previous to the PK session' date=' then you've basically just admitted to using OOC information via wholist to determine the alignment of a character, which is not a justifiable grounds for PK. [/quote']

It is just as arguable that the who list isn't OOC info as much as it is OOC info. There is nothing set in stone at all about how that information should be used. I see it as your character's knowledge of prestigious people. Our characters are in a living, breathing world, with many townes which have large populations of citizens - more than the small number of mobs illustrate (for obvious reasons, we can't have 50 citizen mobs per room in townes). Us, the characters, are the prestigious, reputed people of Aabahran - we are relatively few in number, but are well known.

It is perfectly feasible that I am going to know that Zhryadusfiaeg Smasher is a Fire Giant, trained as a Warrior and currently serving as a Warmaster Elder whether we have interacted or not - he's one of the best Warriors in the lands (whether he's actually well played in PK doesn't matter, he's at the peak of the warriors guild - that puts him above every other lowly citizen in that respect).

It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that my character may have heard that Raethinal Zergling, the recently created Elf Paladin (level 1) is indeed a goodie Elf Paladin without interacting with him, because we live in a world of thousands, where only a fraction of people rise above mere citizenship and join a guild. Think of it like this - in real life, we live in a world of 6+ billion people, and yet I can tell you about of the leaders of many countries/large organisations (cabals) and people who have excelled in their areas of expertise (pinned classes), and I haven't interacted with any of them.

I'm not trying to promote silent PK at all, I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with using who list info in that manner, as there are no defined rules and it's perfectly resonable to suggest you'd know the sort of info you can gleam from the who list. I personally believe that no who list would be a HUGE negative change. It's the motives and reasoning behind your character's actions that matter, and ensuring you execute your roleplay properly, and not cutting corners just for the sake of a quick and easy pkill.

Dey

[corpsestomp]

stuff

Dey

I totally agree with your logic here. When I see people on the who list, it's because they're 'special'. They are heroes, per se.

To Kyzarius, I agree, though I haven't PKed in ages, getting tells asking about why you took their stuff is lame.

To Quigt: Kyzarius isn't complaining about people asking "Why did you kill me?" it's because people are asking "Why did you take my things?" These questions show what people are thinking after death, it's, 'Damn, now I have to re-equip', not 'That was a good fight/I got owned/I'm gonna get that bastage.' This kind of mentality works against RP.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

To get a tell from someone of the opposite align just because they see you on the who list as a race which opposes theirs is lame, bad roleplay and OOC. Who list should go.

[corpsestomp]

Nothing would EVER get done if you couldn't see who was online, ranking groups, going to Winter/Gear/etc, and roleplay would shrink to unbearably low levels.

[Kyzarius]

To get a tell from someone of the opposite align just because they see you on the who list as a race which opposes theirs is lame' date=' bad roleplay and OOC. Who list should go.[/quote']

First off, My current hasn't attacked anyone based on align. AND has made a point of being quite active vocally with everyone he fights/meets/walks past/or has to chase down just to rp

My rant comes from the combination of my last few characters. Hell with one I got killed, swore my revenge and the person who killed me was like "oh, why are you mad..I left your things" no you prat!! you killed me!!! :eek:

[Kyzarius]

That's a valid question. Because if you reply and say "Because you're a ." without any interaction previous to the PK session' date=' then you've basically just admitted to using OOC information via wholist to determine the alignment of a character, which is not a justifiable grounds for PK. I don't mean to say that killing another character because they walk the polar opposite path is wrong, only that it's perfectly okay for your victims to ask your motive, and that you shouldn't say "Because you're a walker of ." without any interaction before the PK.[/quote']

and to this, I an easily say it was easy to determine your align from reading you desc...or from considering you, or from detect good, or because the voices told me who you where.

The point is people in his game value their eq over their characters life. It has been an epidemic problem for years. Heck I remember the notes that come up once every issue at least from the imms warning people to stop letting the syndicate claim their head because they promised not to loot. Or how about people who blind run to their temple then lay down to let you kill them (heck had one of those today!). People dont scream and charge into battle for their cause, or for the sake of humanity/evil..they do so for their gear. IT just irks me.

[mya]

I am sorry Dead Voodoo Doll, i have heard many bad ideas, but yours to remove the who list take the "cup".

You cant take out the Who list. Without that list you can hardly play the game.

There is little you can do to find persons to Hunt with.

It detracts hugely the game play.

[Kyzarius]

I am sorry Dead Voodoo Doll, i have heard many bad ideas, but yours to remove the who list take the "cup".

You cant take out the Who list. Without that list you can hardly play the game.

There is little you can do to find persons to Hunt with.

It detracts hugely the game play.

I think you mean "takes the cake" as the phrase Mya.

[mya]

Also, i dont see anything wrong with moving to you pit when you are about to die. It shows that you KNOW you are not going to make it alive. And you have accepted it. Seeking solace in the Temple of your GOD, where a healer is present.

And that if your god restores your soul after death (a very common event) you will have a chance to retrieve your arms.

Would you think differently if it was a Good aligned character running to his temple knowing that a PC healer was there ?

This behaviour normaly never affects me, unless i was killing him for a specific piecie of his armor. Then i would get frustraded.

Now alowing you to die for a malform, or to a sindicate violates primal instinct to stay alive.

[Kyzarius]

Also, i dont see anything wrong with moving to you pit when you are about to die. It shows that you KNOW you are not going to make it alive. And you have accepted it. Seeking solace in the Temple of your GOD, where a healer is present.

And that if your god restores your soul after death (a very common event) you will have a chance to retrieve your arms.

Would you think differently if it was a Good aligned character running to his temple knowing that a PC healer was there ?

This behaviour normaly never affects me, unless i was killing him for a specific piecie of his armor. Then i would get frustraded.

Now alowing you to die for a malform, or to a sindicate violates primal instinct to stay alive.

I geuss you can reason that move into rp, though imho its still just sacrificing your life to preserve your gear.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

Hell with one I got killed' date=' swore my revenge and the person who killed me was like "oh, why are you mad..I left your things" no you prat!! you killed me!!! :eek: [/quote']

necro?

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

I am sorry Dead Voodoo Doll, i have heard many bad ideas, but yours to remove the who list take the "cup".

You cant take out the Who list. Without that list you can hardly play the game.

There is little you can do to find persons to Hunt with.

It detracts hugely the game play.

And yet, think of the level of interaction that would arise by simply removing it. You'd have to go to different areas of the mud to see if people were already hunting rather than sitting around on your ***. You would actually have to look at someone, or bio them, to know what race they are. Or learn from your friends through conversation. The stories of characters would spread far and wide if your group mates are telling you to keep an eye out for so and so. The amount of conversation that it would create, not too mention the itchy reflexes as HB pointed out, would be incredible. Think about not being able to lay in wait with the where command. Combat tactics would take on a whole new level. It'd be great, IMO. Talk about realistic. No more corner of the city walls or far off footpaths. More "Oh ****, check out who I see three rooms to the east." You could also cut down on the amount of cabal groupies who only log on in numbers.

[Grappler]

To get a tell from someone of the opposite align just because they see you on the who list as a race which opposes theirs is lame' date=' bad roleplay and OOC. Who list should go.[/quote']

Then so should tells...

[Kyzarius]

And yet' date=' think of the level of interaction that would arise by simply removing it. You'd have to go to different areas of the mud to see if people were already hunting rather than sitting around on your ***. You would actually have to look at someone, or bio them, to know what race they are. Or learn from your friends through conversation. The stories of characters would spread far and wide if your group mates are telling you to keep an eye out for so and so. The amount of conversation that it would create, not too mention the itchy reflexes as HB pointed out, would be incredible. Think about not being able to lay in wait with the where command. Combat tactics would take on a whole new level. It'd be great, IMO. Talk about realistic. No more corner of the city walls or far off footpaths. More "Oh ****, check out who I see three rooms to the east." You could also cut down on the amount of cabal groupies who only log on in numbers.[/quote']

now...think of the newbie....

[Quigt]

And yet, think of the level of interaction that would arise by simply removing it. You'd have to go to different areas of the mud to see if people were already hunting rather than sitting around on your ***. You would actually have to look at someone, or bio them, to know what race they are. Or learn from your friends through conversation. The stories of characters would spread far and wide if your group mates are telling you to keep an eye out for so and so. The amount of conversation that it would create, not too mention the itchy reflexes as HB pointed out, would be incredible. Think about not being able to lay in wait with the where command. Combat tactics would take on a whole new level. It'd be great, IMO. Talk about realistic. No more corner of the city walls or far off footpaths. More "Oh ****, check out who I see three rooms to the east." You could also cut down on the amount of cabal groupies who only log on in numbers.

now...think of the newbie....

While that would be realistic, and certainly pretty cool, I think it would be impractical. Maybe it'd be something that would get tried once to see how well it worked. Actually, it'd probably just change the game economy a hell of a lot. Because without the wholist, you'd constantly need to have detect-invis cast to see invisible enemies. So then the price of detect-invis would have to go down, else everybody would be spending the majority of their time getting gil, only to have it wasted on potions that have a short duration anyway. A lot more time would have to go into getting combat consumables, which would detract from time spent PK'ing. Overall, I think that the longterm effect of removing the wholist would be overpowered ninjas and thieves, and underpowered melee classes.

stuff

Dey

Yeah, you're right. I just had a misunderstanding of what the wholist was.

[Deykari]

To get a tell from someone of the opposite align just because they see you on the who list as a race which opposes theirs is lame' date=' bad roleplay and OOC. Who list should go.[/quote']

Why is it bad roleplay and OOC? Let's estabish whether using the who list info IG is OOC or IC firstly:

- There are no guidelines set in place as to whether using the who list is OOC or IC.

- It is reasonable to suggest that everybody who shows up in the who list is a person well-known within Aabahran. Posters, word of mouth, anything - whilst you can argue the opposite, without any guidelines, you can also argue for this case.

- Without any guidelines to follow, players are free to interpret the who list as they see fit. Is the who list an indicator of the famous people your character is currently aware of? Is it there as an OOC tool for players simply to know who is about?

As for bad roleplay...

If I am an Elf, and you are a Fire Giant Warrior, revered in your guild as one of the highest ranking, then at the very least, I (as a CHARACTER, not PLAYER) could know about you, and if there has been no prior interaction with you or way I could know about you, I could know at the very least you are a Fire Giant.

From this, my CHARACTER could draw the following conclusion based on the stereotype: You are a Fire Giant, thus you are evil.

Are you neccessarily evil? No. Are you neccessarily how I (my CHARACTER) perceives you? No.

It is a form of IG racism - the likelyhood of there being a good Fire Giant is slim (that as far as my CHARACTER is aware, all Fire Giants to have existed have been evil) - He will make a base judgement based upon stereotypes, such as "He is a Fire Giant, and so he is evil" - again form of IG racism.

I'm not suggesting this should be the norm, just one possible view - what if your character does not rely on stereotypes and isn't racist? A character who does not judge people before interacting? A player who then uses who list information to determine their align could well be breaching their own roleplay in that respect.

If I'm barking up the wrong tree here, let me know. I just fail to see, assuming that the who list is comprised of only world-wide famous people (which again, is perfectly reasonable), how using who list information is OOC and bad roleplay.

Dey

EDIT: Just to add, I'm not posting this as an argument against removing the who list. I'm against the idea of removing the who list, but for different reasons. This is just my view on the who list.

[Anume]

Any player character (!= npc) is to be considered famous. Telling someone of the opposit align he is of the opposit align can be acceptable rp as they can simply say he has that reputation.

[L-A]

People who go to their pit to die aren't trying to be close to their deity - they are simply trying to save their suit of shinies.

This means seveal things:

1) You are lame.

2) You need to read 'help death' again - especially the part about death being avoided. If you'd tried harder to run away perhaps you'd have lived.

3) I think you're lame.

4) I'm going to multi-kill you and full loot you.

5) I'm going to multi-kill you whlie you are naked because.....

6) You are lame.

L-A

[L-A]

I forgot to reply to the first post - the next time someone complains about you taking their equipment and asks why, just do this:

Recent PKill-ee tells you 'You took my THINGS!!! That is completely uncalled for and UNFAIR!!! WAAAHHHHH!!!'

reply Of course, its going to make it that much easier to send you to see your deity again and again and again. See you soon sweetheart. *blows you a kiss*

:mad:

Its really just like Myrek says:

If I had a reason to kill you, I had a reason to full loot you.

L-A