Guest emp_newb Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 I have locked people that I know cleared 300 ac, so long as I can land 3/4 of my enlarged slams. I even used to keep locks without dirting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 After playing Lmathr' date=' I can definately agree that maybe enlarged bashes should be looked into. I realize there is prep that can be done to somewhat hinder a lock. But from my experience I was able to lock just about anyone that did not have prot shield of some sort. And without real fail, if I got the enlarge too it was pretty well done with.[/quote'] Able to laglock just about anyone, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 What ever happen to people increasing their AC to get rid of a lock? A plague of stupidity befell their minds. -300 isn't the 'magic' number in this case. L-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killalou Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 A plague of stupidity befell their minds. -300 isn't the 'magic' number in this case. L-A I know it never was. In fact -300 Ac is good for like a giant. An elf should be sitting at -450+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English lad Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 On Daerlion (Elf Cleric) when I was suited for fighting melees, so HP and AC I was normally around -550, a little more if I bothered to use certain consumables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrothum Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 I didn't want to say anything, but LA hit the nail on the head lol. -300ac is middle of the road pretty much. Expect to get bashed to hell from a decked, enlarged fire giant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest emp_newb Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 300 ac vs a 16 dex body slam, it is a factor* I promise. And that was my point is that I could pretty effectively lock anything that had a decent, to great ac. Once you get into higher ac races, like elves, dex is a pretty important factor as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 300 ac vs a 16 dex body slam' date=' it is a factor* I promise. And that was my point is that I could pretty effectively lock anything that had a decent, to great ac. Once you get into higher ac races, like elves, dex is a pretty important factor as well.[/quote'] Yay for halflings! *mutters darkly about Uhril's thrust of lagging DOOOOOOM* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted March 17, 2008 Report Share Posted March 17, 2008 Psh. I never had -300 even for a single one of our fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wayward Knight Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I used to get lag locked by a generic fire giant melee character despite having -450+ ac, on my last human character. Sometimes I had over -500, and I would still get locked for at least 10 rounds straight. One of these times, I was extremely well equipped, and the giant was wearing a few pieces of shoddy stuff with a single weapon, and he nearly killed me with the bashes alone - they were the only attacks that landed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I used to get lag locked by a generic fire giant melee character despite having -450+ ac' date=' on my last human character. Sometimes I had over -500, and I would still get locked for at least 10 rounds straight. One of these times, I was extremely well equipped, and the giant was wearing a few pieces of shoddy stuff with a single weapon, and he nearly killed me with the bashes alone - they were the only attacks that landed.[/quote'] I've experienced that. It sucks. Why is it that all my high dex characters seem to miss bashes more than my low dex characters? Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talimee Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Only time we got to fight it was EXTREMELY close. Tough one. I'm sure you'll have just as much fun on your next guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrothum Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 Wow, was wondering what happened to you, Festorvian....I deleted my paladin a long time ago for the very same reason. Being bashed lock straight to hell. I had around -450 ac at the time. Mounted just doesn't seem to help at all. When a decked warrior is throwing out 200+hp per round against you, the minor benefit of the new paladin skill means very little if they can just lock you for 10+ rounds. Anyway, Paladins are a crappy class to play if the latest "baddies" in town are bash happy warriors, or vamps, or even zerks. Better off going with a blademaster or someone with prot shield. Just like DKs were given a skill to counter-act bashlocks, I think Paladins should too...or a modification to the mounted ability. It could fire off like balance, but then knock you off the horse. So if you let yourself get bashed again, you're subject to a lock. Or if the mounted spell falls in combat and you get bashed, ur screwed. Trying to dismount and sneak and get caught by a bash, you're hosed. Anyway, I was pretty ticked off when I deleted my paladin back then. Bashed through godly ac, at the cabal guard. Don't let it get to you bro....hope you find your way back here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 "but then knock you off the horse" No, please. There is already something that does that, and it is nasty enuff. The moment you are dismounted, you lose your antibash bonus and just allows them to keep a lag lock, that finishes with your corpse. "Just like DKs were given a skill to counter-act bashlocks, I think Paladins should too." Paladins have magic strike that aids you endure the pain while you are being bashed, and has a low chance of recasting a big protective spell on you. Not perfect, but you can almost ignore the damage from bash skill. Now all you have to do is outmeele him... By the way, what does DK skill do ? I never ever saw it in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrothum Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 I've never seen an antibash bonus with mounted. I've been bashed for 10+ rounds mounted, looks like Orodreth was too. Like I said, when a decked warrior wielding weapons you can't is dishing 200+hp per round, magic strike is next to useless. You will not outmelee a warrior in heads up combat. EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted October 19, 2008 Implementor Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 From my experience few things are harder to lag lock than elven paladins. When they are not naked you might land two bashes but then they are usually gone. 10 rounds would mean 5 hits. Don't think I've seen that happening, most was 4 hits I think and that is rare. (Exception perhaps that evil dk pet, sometimes that thing just keeps bashing like a maniac ) If you are worried about being bash locked, enlarge and pump your ac up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrothum Posted October 19, 2008 Report Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'll have to log it next time. Bash, bash, locked even as he eats a sack here, bash bash bash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deykari Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Exceptions can happen. In the case of vampires, there are things you shouldn't be doing, as doing them will leave you for dead (not allowed to be more specific). In the case of warriors, then you need good AC and a source of enlarging. Keep as many enlarge sources as possible, as well as consumables that provide shield, stone skin and flesh armor. That's an extra -80 AC right there. -Always- use your goliath too. Always, always, always. Try not to spam commands or use triggers, because you might only get a split second to enter a command as the lock breaks and entering anything but 'flee' can be fatal. I don't have the logs anymore, but I've fought giant warriors that were -decked- as Pamiyn, that have dual wielded whips, and I've not taken anywhere near 200 damage per round unless there was at least a considerable EQ difference, nor had I found myself ever laglocked for more than just a few rounds. This was both as an avatar and pre-avatar, not that avatar makes a tremendous amount of difference at all in this respect. Paladins are reliant on equipment in these circumstances, just like melees are. If your EQ doesn't match up to that of the lagger, then you will have more trouble avoiding the bashes and coping with the opponent's damage output. Having thoroughly experimented with paladin's magic strike, there are a few tricks to using it and knowing them will help you a lot. Not sure if I can post here. Like I said, there are exceptions, and you could just find yourself exceptionally unlucky and held in a complete bashlock until death. That's just how the cookie crumbles. The -exact- same thing could happen to another warrior, a zerk, a thief, a ninja, a bard, a dark-knight, and so on, to varying degrees. As a paladin, your chances of surviving a bashlock are higher than the competition. Dey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrothum Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 It's not rare. Just because YOU didn't experience doesn't make Orodreth or the paladins I have played the exception. Despiser's FG nexus warrior would just make a joke of me with bashlocks and I was loaded up on AC. He would fight the cabal guard and me at the same time and bashlock me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deykari Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 It's not rare. Just because YOU didn't experience doesn't make Orodreth or the paladins I have played the exception. Despiser's FG nexus warrior would just make a joke of me with bashlocks and I was loaded up on AC. He would fight the cabal guard and me at the same time and bashlock me. I've played 5 pinned Paladins, and three have been played to condeath. The most recent four have fought giant warriors almost religiously (the first one being in Knight around the time when Nexus was filled with casters/communers, Durimar being the only one I remember by name) and never have I had an issue with long bashlocks. Sure, you might get locked for varying lengths of time but as a rule, more often than not you can break free of the lock after 2-3 bashes/slams/whatever. Why you're referring to a character that was around years ago as an example of how susceptible pallies are to bashing is beyond me, considering that it is entirely possible to be fully lag-locked as a paladin and especially considering that I know for a fact you've played paladins since then, and that there have been changes to Paladins since - some of which you might not know about As for Orodreth, I was present in the battle which his post referred to. He did something he shouldn't have done. Not a slight on Iyorvin, as he is an amazing player, but mistakes happen. My understanding is that Orodreth killed Martinieus, one of the -few- people who killed him 1v1 widely regarded as one of the best played vampires in the PK arena. How would that happen, if as you state, Paladins are fodder to command denial, especially considering how Marty was generally completely decked? There are inconsistencies in your figures too. If you're claiming to be bashlocked for 10+ rounds at 200+ damage per round, then that equates to 2000+ HP being taken away, which no paladin will have. Let's just say that for the sake of argument, your paladin has 1000 hp max (which would be a feat if you wanted to retain saves/hit/dam) then at 200+ damage per round, you're going to be lagged for no longer than five rounds before death, which equates to three successful bashes (or even the first 2 bashes being successful with the latter lagging long enough for one round of combat), which isn't exactly many bashes and is completely reasonable. Your problem in that case is EQ difference, if you're taking 200+ damage per round. Being bashlocked for 10+ rounds by anything but a DK is again, a case of being either unlucky, or or not being enlarged and having the adequate EQ/AC. I'm not trying to be pedantic or an ***, and I know you're a skilled player, but I'm sensing some slight exaggeration here and that what you are experiencing is NOT the norm. If it is the -constant- norm, then your equipment isn't upto scratch and you're not preparing enough. I'm sure some notable Paladin players will back me up here - most recently that I have seen, I seem to recall Ilendriel, Pali's Paladin, doing very well against the command-denial classes. My point is not that Paladins are invulnerable to command denial such as bashing. They're not. My point is that they are better equipped to face bashlocks than any other non-giant non-prot shield class provided you take the necessary precautions and really go to town with consumables and preparations. The fact that they CAN be lagged is a disadvantage to be taken into consideration when playing the class considering their other advantages. Every class has advantages and disadvantages and where they can excel in one arena, can fare less well in another. Dey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhokril Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Orodreth and Martineius existed a couple years apart real time. Mounted combat is not supposed to be protective shield. Paladins are not designed to have protective shield. That is basically what this boils down to. Nobody ever said paladins shouldn't ever get laglocked, even though they rarely rarely do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deykari Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Ah, who the hell am I thinking of? EDIT - Never mind, thinking of Iyorvin's other Elf Pally, name I can't remember. Dey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zrothum Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 I've not talking about a single fight when I spoke of 200+hp per round. I said I have been bashlocked for 10+ rounds before. Again, I am not talking about one single fight against the same person. Despiser's FG warrior wore a staff and didnt do tons of damage compared to some other warrior's I've fought. Let's assume I'm completely wrong, and you're right. 2-3 bashes against a warrior, which you have stated is more often than not. You will not outmelee a warrior who can put you through 4-6 rounds of combat. You won't attrition him either. The melee damage they are going to be dishing out to you is absurd in 6 rounds compared to the paladin. And ok, so you flee? Heaven forbid they get the jump on you and bash you again. If you fail the flee or anything. I'm not saying Paladins should be impervious to bashing...I'm saying the mounted skill should do more than I've seen it do. -shrug- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhokril Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 Let's assume I'm completely wrong, and you're right. 2-3 bashes against a warrior, which you have stated is more often than not. You will not outmelee a warrior who can put you through 4-6 rounds of combat. You won't attrition him either. The melee damage they are going to be dishing out to you is absurd in 6 rounds compared to the paladin. And ok, so you flee? Heaven forbid they get the jump on you and bash you again. If you fail the flee or anything. I'm not saying Paladins should be impervious to bashing...I'm saying the mounted skill should do more than I've seen it do. -shrug- You could apply that argument to any class without a form of lag immunity and it would still hold. So, if paladins are gimped, by your logic, about 6 other classes are even more gimped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted October 20, 2008 Report Share Posted October 20, 2008 "Try not to spam commands or use triggers, because you might only get a split second to enter a command as the lock breaks and entering anything but 'flee' can be fatal." This one has killed me several times. "-Always- use your goliath too." I still do not see great benefits. Sure i manage to charge lag sooner, but still... Anyway on to Paladin on Warriors tactics... Sure you can sometimes get lag locked, i once took 8 straight bashes. But most times you eat 3 and then they miss one. Do not fight dirt kicked. Run and wait it to pass. Fight on water. Attack near tick, so it lasts less. Frustate him, so that he stops the dirting. Carry 4+ Enlargment pills. Enlarge before battle. Get a cursed blessed magic polearm. Get a blessed nodrop vulnerability exotic and a blessed shield. If he duals whips, go with the shield. Most warriors i fought used a spear and a dueled whip. Keep track of sanctuary and mount, so that they do not fall during the battle. Keep high aff saves to protect from embers. Hitroll higher than dam roll. Compensate damroll with high average damage weapons. Missile shield scroll. Take ranged weapon out of equation. Max luck. This is quite important. Even then, it's a uphill battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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