myrek Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 This is really only two things: my verifying that I understand the new layout and to kill time (I'm still training). The cabals: Savant, Warmaster, Nexus, Knight, Tribunal, Watcher , Syndicate, Herald. There's a decent balance to it. Magic vs Melee; Evil vs Good; Order vs Chaos; Those who kill anyone vs those who kill no one. But the battle lines are screwed up. Savant: wants to control but really has no hardcore enemies like they did in the old system; just working on world domination Warmaster: same as Savant; they even can use magic!? Nexus: all that is evil and nasty; hates everyone so no specific enemy Knight: only all good cabal; three ages and still haven't found their king; hates Tribunal for being the wrong gov, hates Nexus for being pure evil, hates Syndicate for being bloodthirsty, hates all the other cabals for allowing evil in; truly at war with everyone; might be willing to ally with Watcher Tribunal: a combination of all three city govs and Justice (they should have been called EMPIRE); no specific enemies; have a TON of mobs to help them (from roaming guards to shopkeepers); requires much discipline to RP (being lawful sucks!), but has the most support from the "system"; has jurisdiction everywhere Watcher: neutral only; hates the expansion of the cities (Tribunal); hates unnatural creatures (demons, undeads) so it puts them at odds with Nexus and anyone with that type of membership. Syndicate: hired assassins; will kill anyone if the price is right; doesn't hate anyone right out of the box Herald: hating is not allowed by Herald; there's no reason to hate them except for all the notes they put out. Put all that in the stat grinder, stir, a dash of oregano, and presto: Potential Allies (from cabal's POV/in reality) Savant: any (7/7)/Knight and Watcher might not agree (5/7) Warmaster: any (7/7)/Knight and Watcher might not agree (5/7) Herald: any (7/7)/any (7/7) Syndicate: any (7/7)/Knight, Tribunal and Watcher might not agree (5/7) Nexus: any (7/7)/Knight and Watcher won't agree (7/7) Watcher: any but Nexus or with demon/undead (0-6/7)/ possibly none (0/7) Knight: any but Nexus or with evils or oppose their "king" (0-6/7)/ possibly none (0/7) Tribunal: any who follow the laws (0-7/7)/ Knight and Watcher don't like em (0-5/7) Conclusion: Savant, Warmaster, Herald, Syndicate, and Nexus are set up best to take advantage of the army/alliance system of cabal warfare. They have options to choose from when they make friends. Watcher and Knight are bastard children. They're goals are too fanatical and inflexible to go very far without very dominating players. They get my underpowered stamp. Tribunal is Microsoft Windows. It promises to run everything smoothly and grant you all kinds of control straight out of the box. But really happens is that nothing else runs right because there's poor access to the operating system (gate golems, healers, shopkeepers, bank, pits, guilds). Any surrender monky can catch criminals with all the support they get. No, not all criminals, but ya still get cps for arresting a lvl 10 criminal. A great started cabal, but I think it is a bit overpowered (as long as getting wanted in one city makes you wanted in all cities). I might be wrong, but I believe they are the only cabal to get cps from activities other than warring besides Syndicate. Now talk amongst yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeleeCrazy Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Knight: only all good cabal; three ages and still haven't found their king; hates Tribunal for being the wrong gov, hates Nexus for being pure evil, hates Syndicate for being bloodthirsty, hates all the other cabals for allowing evil in; truly at war with everyone; might be willing to ally with Watcher. Highly doubt Knight's willing to allie with Watcher. not trying to put ya down or nothing just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 that's why I said MIGHT.... lack of any other options + losing the war could equal "please Watchers, we'll be your friends" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behrens Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 All correct. However, the WMs and Savants have never gotten along well, so their wars have tended to be fairly spectacular. And remember that Watcher hates Avatars (not Crusaders, I hate it when people mis-RP that) as much as demons, so Knight is not a very viable ally. Also, it is hard coded that each cabal can have only 1 ally at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 And remember that Watcher hates Avatars (not Crusaders' date=' I hate it when people mis-RP that) as much as demons, so Knight is not a very viable ally.[/quote'] Damn! I forgot about that. That puts Tribunal in an even better position. You have to love your two main enemies hating each other. edit: side question: with all the changes, can blademasters become crusaders? just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balinor Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I think that was decided against, because the other classes are big, heroic, sword wielding fools, while blademasters fight with finesse and grace. Granted, I'm sure you could RP it out, but it would take some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfeman Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 So I guess that's why clerics can't be crusaders too, huh? I kinda thought that was wierd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behrens Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 So I guess that's why clerics can't be crusaders too' date=' huh? I kinda thought that was wierd.[/quote'] Clerics can't be 'Saders because 'Saders aren't spell-casters. Paladins are secondary casters, but Clerics are primary. Paladins lose all their spells, which would be a HUGE hit for a cleric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dogmeat Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Watcher: any but Nexus or with demon/undead (0-6/7)/ possibly none (0/7) Would watcher ever allie with Tribunal? I dont think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 First of all, ROFL at "Knight: only all good cabal; three ages and still haven't found their king". That being said, there's a few things. 1, if I recall correctly, every single cabal has an enemy hard-coded, meaning a vendetta that never dies. Syndicate/Tribunal, Warmaster/Savant, Knight/Nexus. Only cabal that doesn't, I believe, is Watcher. In other words, for the most part, there's always a cabal enemy, someone you HAVE to hate. Watchers (and Syndicate) don't even HAVE armies; they have the 'raid' system, which is why army warfare/alliances don't matter much to them. Same with Tribunal. Knight....well, suffice to say, despite being goals being fanatical/unflexible, it's almost always a very popular cabal, simply because the 'knight in shining armor' RP is very, very appealing. So that outweighs the lack of 'solid alliances', so to speak. Finally, Tribunal, in terms of structure (though not necessarily RP) is very, very similar to Justice of the old days, in terms of who they need to fight (Watcher/Syndicate both, the only cabal who pretty much has two 'fixed' natural enemies); and it's always good to keep in mind that generally, most good PK'ers rarely pick lawful, which means Tribbies usually have to go up against the best/strongest chars around. So everything balances out fairly well there (And capturing criminals doesn't, if I recall correctly, give nearly as much cp's as you think; I think it gives 2, maybe 3, for the first few offenses). So personally, I think that the cabals are balanced out rather well. Oh, and no. "that's why I said MIGHT.... lack of any other options + losing the war could equal "please Watchers, we'll be your friends"" Not in my cabal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 If only one Syndi is on, and there's a raid against a town, and the Syndi isn't outlawed already, are they outlawed/wanted for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Tribby isn't my cabal, Knight is. Even if it were, though, that type of question can probably only be answered IG. Not that it makes a big difference, though, as cabal warfare generally demands Justice enemies to be wanted/outlaws, simply because the Justice cabal/altar/guardian are all on 'lawful' territory (the same for Tribunal as well, I believe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delfytheelfy Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 they cant proove it was you, syndi dont have to wear tags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Interesting, I'll do some checking on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 'Tags'...lol, makes me think of dogtags. Any time a caballed person attacks a vendetta'd cabal, though, there's a shout that soandso of suchandsuch cabal has been sighted! So yes, they'd know who you are/what you belong to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 hmmm... I thought "natural enemies" went away with the introduction of armies and the alliance system. Of course that is why I started this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfeman Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Is it just me or does it seem that Syndicate might not neccesarily *have* to be the enemy of Tribunal? I mean, yeah, Syndicate by nature operates outside the bounds of the law, but hey, Bobby Kennedy tried to get the mob to take out Castro that one time, so. . . Just thought I'd throw that out there. edit: Also, I thought Warmaster and Savant weren't required to be in a state of constant war with each other anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Natural enemies did go away, originally. Then came the OOC-fest and the pansiness, with people refusing to have vendettas/fight against tough cabals. The one 'permanent vendetta' thing was reinstated along with the returning to IMM-run cabals (although not as 'IMM-run' as before). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 Thanks for the info. And Wolfeman, when armies first came out, Syndi could have been on okay terms with Justice. You're not a criminal if you kill people outside of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 I'd love to make another Knight, if it wasn't for the fact that good align Tribunal wouldn't give me a break. Now, if I were allowed to kill them without consequences, count me in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrek Posted February 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 you can always mercy them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Does nothing though man, they just come back again ASAP. They don't get scared, why, because you cant kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Maybe if you could loot on mercy. They're lying on the ground, you take their weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpnow Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Post that as an idea...I like it...and have more to add, but don't want to derail this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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