Tiered Skill System (Berserker)

**sorry about the typo in the title...any chance to get that fixed??

The idea here is to add a lot of custom paths that are all interesting and allow for far greater replayability for each class. However, in lieu of designing full paths, this idea concentrates on expanding our existing skill system.

Each skill will be broken into either three or four tiers, with the basic level being the skill as it is now. For example:

[B]basic attack[/B]
--advanced attack (second attack)
--expert attack (third attack)
--master attack (fourth attack)
[B]basic dual wield[/B]
--advanced dual wield (may choose to strike with only primary or offhand)
--master dual wield (may dual wield objects of same weight)

Different classes will get a different base bonus and max value.

For example, a warrior will always get master attack without expending any selections. A necromancer will never be able to select expert attack.

Different races will have perks, giving them a natural bonus of three skills. These three skills will vary depending on the class. A human berserker and paladin will get different race perk bonuses. This is ensures that all choices are useful and do not overlap (a warrior getting a wasted bonus to attack for example), and helps to balance the races.

For example, a storm giant berserker gets a bonus to warcry, enhanced damage, and bodyslam. In contrast, a storm giant warrior might get a bonus to charge, enhanced damage, and bash.

One key benefit of this system is that vastly increasing the skillset without vastly increasing the workload. It primarily uses things that are already coded into the game. It allows a great deal more flexibility when designing and developing a player character. It also makes race much more important than it is now.

The following class example may or may not be well balanced. The details of the benefits of each tier need to be considered against future designs of other the skills of all other classes and subsequently rebalanced. Please don't worry about the class balance at this point. Please consider the system as a whole, not as a balancer at this point.

The number of upgrades for a berserker are as follows:

Zerk base (13):

+1 axe/mace/flail/polearm/spear/sword/hand to hand/two handed/shield block/fast healing/enhanced damage

+2 attack

Race perks (3):

human +1 trip/relax/parry

storm +1 warcry/enhanced damage/bodyslam

stone +1 swing/enhanced damage/bodyslam

fire +1 mace/enhanced damage/bodyslam

werebeast +1 haymaker/dirt kick/dual wield

ogre +1 roar/fast healing/weapon cleave

dwarf +1 shield cleave/berserk/shield block

duergar +1 double grip/headbutt/two handed

minotaur +1 charge/rage/axe

Rage focus (1):

anger +1 haymaker

fury +1 two handed

devastation +1 enhanced damage

Selectables every 10 levels (5)*

Total skills for a berserker:

13 class base + 3 race perks + 5 selectables + 1 rage focus = 22 skills beyond basic

For example, an extremely defensive dwarf berserker might end up as follows:

[B][U]Advanced skills:[/U][/B]
axe
mace
flail
polearm
spear
sword
hand to hand
two handed
fast healing
enhanced damage
haymaker
shield cleave
berserk
[B][U]Expert Skills:[/U][/B]
attack
[B][U]Master skills:[/U][/B]
parry (4 selectables)
shield block (race + class + 1 selectable)
[B][U]22 tiers beyond basic[/U][/B]

*Detailed example selectable choices for berserker:

[B]basic axe[/B]
--advanced axe (+2 avg damage)
--expert axe (+50% damage on first successful normal strike)
--master axe (halves target's ac for hit/dam calculation)
[B]basic dagger[/B]
--advanced dagger (add wound flag to weapon)
--expert dagger (dual parry bonus)
--master dagger (doublesheath/+3 dual parry)
[B]basic flail[/B]
--advanced flail (+3 hitroll/+5 damroll)
--expert flail (+1 second/third/fourth attack)
--master flail (mantis maul)
[B]basic mace[/B]
--advanced mace (+8 damroll)
--expert mace (+2 avg damage/+3 damroll)
--master mace (focused bash)
[B]basic polearm[/B]
--advanced polearm (+1% two handed/+1% parry)
--expert polearm (+20% charge round damage)
--master polearm (+1% two handed/+1% parry/+1% polearm)
[B]basic spear[/B]
--advanced spear (-40 AC/+3 hitroll/+2 damroll)
--expert spear (add sharp flag to weapon)
--master spear (backcutter)
[B]basic sword[/B]
--advanced sword (+3 hitroll/+3 damroll/-30 AC)
--expert sword (add sharp flag to weapon)
--master sword (feign)
[B]basic staff[/B]
--advanced staff (+1% staff)
--expert staff (-40 AC/+1% staff)
--master staff (+2%staff)
[B]basic hand to hand[/B]
--advanced hand to hand (chance of a lagging strike/+1 avg damage)
--expert hand to hand (allows parry/dual parry with hand to hand/+2 avg damage)
--master hand to hand (allows pugil with hand to hand/+3 avg damage)
[B]basic exotic[/B]
--advanced exotic (+5% disarm/offhand disarm/shield disarm/+2 hitroll)
--expert exotic (+2 hitroll/+1 avg damage/+2 luck/-25 AC)
--master exotic (weapon seize)
[B]basic two handed[/B]
--advanced two handed (+5 hitroll/+5 damroll)
--expert two handed (swing with two-handed weapons (if already swinging, +1 attack))
--master two handed (+3% two handed/+1 avg dam)
[B]basic shield block[/B]
--advanced shield block (can block arrows)
--expert shield block (shield block causes riposte damage)
--master shield block (auto shield bash)
[B]basic parry[/B]
--advanced parry (+2% parry)
--expert parry (+3% parry)
--master parry (parry causes riposte damage)
[B]basic dodge[/B]
--advanced dodge (+10 lag avoidance)
--expert dodge (50% chance to dodge thrown objects (cards/shurikens/etc))
--master dodge (25% to avoid all opening strikes)
[B]basic rage[/B]
--advanced rage (+25% rage hp bonus)
--master rage (dodge restored by 50%)
[B]basic enhanced damage[/B]
--advanced enhanced damage (+5 damroll)
--expert enhanced damage (+2 avg damage)
--master enhanced damage (+2 avg damage/+5 damroll)
[B]basic fast healing[/B]
--advanced fast healing (regeneration)
--master fast healing (halves duration of poison/plague/enfeeblement)
[B]basic meditation[/B]
--advanced meditation (trance)
--master meditation (resist charm spells)
[B]basic attack[/B]
--advanced attack (second attack)
--expert attack (third attack)
--master attack (fourth attack)
[B]basic dual wield[/B]
--advanced dual wield (may choose to strike with only primary or offhand)
--master dual wield (may dual wield objects of same weight)
[B]basic charge[/B]
--advanced charge (may charge and attack (like minotaurs))
--master charge (may charge in combat to push an enemy into another room)
[B]basic trip[/B]
--advanced trip (trip causes moderate damage)
--master trip (+1 enemy size when calculating lag duration)
[B]basic bodyslam[/B]
--advanced bodyslam (bodyslam may cause the thunderclap effect)
--master bodyslam (+3% bodyslam)
[B]basic berserk[/B]
--advanced berserk (no ac/moves penalty)
--master berserk (+5 hitroll/+5 damroll/+100 hp)
[B]basic warcry[/B]
--advanced warcry (+5 hitroll/-5 svs. vs. spell)
--master warcry (+5 hitroll/+5 damroll/warcry affects groupmembers)
[B]basic lore[/B]
--advanced lore (can see extra flags (hitroll/damroll/etc))
--master lore (as identify spell)
[B]basic weapon cleave[/B]
--advanced weapon cleave (may cleave offhand weapons)
--master weapon cleave (adds burnproof flag to weapon)
[B]basic shield cleave[/B]
--advanced shield cleave (causes major damage on success)
--expert shield cleave (negates burnproof shieldblock for one tick) 
[B]basic relax[/B]
--advanced relax (may relax from path of fury)
--master relax (may relax from path of devastation)
[B]basic double grip[/B]
--advanced double grip (+3% two handed)
--master double grip (powergrip)
[B]basic haymaker[/B]
--advanced haymaker (skull crusher)
--master haymaker (haymaker causes thunderclap/+25% protective shield penetration chance)
[B]basic headbutt[/B]
--advanced headbutt (causes thunderclap effect)
--master headbutt (ignores protective shield)
[B]basic haggle[/B]
--advanced haggle (haggles twice and takes the best result)
--master haggle (ignore bank/locker fees)
[B]basic swing[/B]
--advanced swing (can swing out of rage)
--master swing (all attacks swing (bash/haymaker/charge/etc)*(can enable/disable at will))

Example skill sheet for a berserker:

Level 1: basic axe n/a basic dagger n/a 
 basic flail n/a basic mace n/a 
 basic polearm n/a basic shield block n/a 
 basic spear n/a basic sword n/a 
 basic enhanced damage n/a basic hand to hand n/a 
 recall n/a basic staff n/a 
 basic two handed n/a 
Level 5: basic parry n/a 
Level 6: basic fast healing n/a basic rage n/a 
Level 7: [B]advanced attack n/a[/B] 
Level 8: basic dirt kicking n/a 
Level 10: basic relax n/a basic swing n/a advanced axe n/a [B] [selectable] [ n/a] [/B]
Level 12: [B]advanced flail n/a[/B]
Level 13: basic charge n/a 
Level 14: [B]advanced polearm n/a[/B]
Level 15: basic trip n/a basic bodyslam n/a [B][race perk] [ n/a] 
Level 16: basic berserk n/a basic haggle n/a [B]advanced mace n/a [/B] 
Level 17: basic dual wield n/a basic roar n/a 
Level 18: basic meditation n/a [B]advanced spear n/a[/B]
Level 19: expert attack n/a 
Level 20: basic warcry n/a [B]advanced sword n/a [/B] [B][selectable] [ n/a][/B]
Level 21: basic dodge n/a 
Level 22: basic weapon cleave n/a [B]advanced hand to hand n/a [/B] 
Level 23: basic shield cleave n/a 
Level 24: [B]advanced enhanced damage n/a[/B]
Level 25: basic lore n/a 
Level 26: [B]advanced shield block n/a[/B]
Level 27: advanced fast healing n/a 
Level 30: path focus [ n/a] [B] [selectable] [ n/a] [/B] [B][race perk] [ n/a]
[/B]Level 33: basic headbutt n/a 
Level 36: basic haymaker n/a 
Level 38: basic double grip n/a 
Level 40: [B][selectable] [ n/a][/B]
Level 45: [B][race perk] [ n/a] [/B]
Level 46: rage focus [ n/a]
Level 50: [B][selectable] [ n/a][/B]

All I can say is wow. This sounds awesome.

I found some of that intriguing, but also somewhat confusing. Would people be "using" each incarnation of the skill or would it be more like an upgrade?

I will be blunt. I do not like it.

To great of a change to the game mechanics.

Requiring careful new Balances. And a deep time investment on the change.

Other thing. This example looks nice for Skills, but what about spells ?

If going for such a deep change, why not completely eliminate classes and go with fully customized skill/spell lists with a point buy system ?

But there are interesting points in your idea.

• Races giving selectable perks.

This is quite interesting, Half-Elves and Ferals could serve as test races.

I like it so far, but would like some elaboration as well.

I think it is a very good idea to give serks a bit more of a punch and the different selections would make them much more interesting, just like rangers.

It does sound like a great concept, but at the same time I think it will take alot of time to implement. Would completely revamp our leveling system.

I am not a fan. If we were to make any change to our system (as vast as you are suggesting) I would like to see this..

Start out as a class, then branch out to diff possibilities:

Fighter -->Thug/Gladiator/Horseman --> Berserker/Warrior/Paladin

Rogue

Mage

With different selections coming with certain skills/spells and having different (some overlapping) choices for advancement.

I am not a fan. If we were to make any change to our system (as vast as you are suggesting) I would like to see this..

Start out as a class, then branch out to diff possibilities:

Fighter -->Thug/Gladiator/Horseman --> Berserker/Warrior/Paladin

Rogue

Mage

With different selections coming with certain skills/spells and having different (some overlapping) choices for advancement.

So we'd be like... evolving editions of Dungeons and Dragons, wrapped up into one game?

Hey, D&D was like my RP fix for the longest time. Then I stumbled across a small mud call Rock. Then Arctic (D&D based), then Aabahran when arctic got non rp.

I think this should be implemented for every current class. Therefore no class is ever the same(in theory). You will all argue and I will say this now, do not fear change. This could really work, seriously I remember when FL was just starting out and a lot of the testers were like no this isn't going to work, it should be more like AR. Guess what people it worked! I am supporting this idea, and if something like this doesn't get a chance then we have all failed as human beings.

Actually the D&D feat system is pretty awesome.

Class decides skill prices and some free feats. Then is all up about choosing the Feats you want.

This feat/perk approach is very good for a Mud mechanical structure.

I never understanded for example why Ogre extra regeneration is check on Ogre race and not on a Perk thing like the new Perks. I guess it's the result of upgrading code on code that is so common on Muds.

While I like the addition of more 'selectable' skills, I do not want to shift to 'classless' systems. Too much room for abuse since the only way I've seen to counteract 'pick-point' systems is a higher exp. Would I play a thief with fourth attack, sanc, prot shield, word of recall, malform weapon and gate for a 1600 exp penalty? Hell yes. We have the players who would grind it out.

But I am all for a few selectable skills for all classes though.

Just another way to bring power gaming to a new extreme.

I am not a fan of this idea...

Ranking is an easy road for those with AIM friends who play, no matter the exp penalty.

Those without "AIM" friends, it truly is difficult if your not neutral.

I don't like this system at all. I played a mud before this one and when they implemented a tier based system it went downhill to extinction. I like having the limited selections that we have with some classes but not a system of ALL selections.

To great of a change to the game mechanics.

Requiring careful new Balances. And a deep time investment on the change.

This doesn't change the mechanics at all. It doesn't introduce any new skills/spells. These tiered upgrades act much more like perks than they do new skills. As for balance, this would aid considerably in that, making it much easier to balance different race/class combos against each other. Now we just balance classes and hope it balances when we add races to the mix (gnome warriors, faerie thieves, ogre rangers?). That is one of my primary reasons for proposing this change.

Time is always an investment...while this change does propose some radical things, the coding aspect of it would be much easier than trying to make a new class.

This example looks nice for Skills' date=' but what about spells ?[/quote']

Spells might seem like they would be difficult to incorporate, but I believe that is because current spells are very unbalanced. You might think...all evil clerics will of course upgrade their path of deceit spell, right? Sure, if we kept our current balance. However, using this system, we would be able to make existing, almost worthless spells, worthwhile again. Let's look at a spell like detect good/evil.

basic detect good/evil
advanced detect good/evil - can sense when a good/evil char enters and leaves a room
master detect good/evil - can see hidden/invisible/camoed characters in the same room but not on where

Some people might actually find that very useful, giving meaning to a worthless spell. The reverse would be done at the same. As some spells become more useful, the all-powerful spells naturally become less useful, without actually losing any of their power.

Every skill/spell would be stronger. Some spells will only get slightly stronger (path of deceit), while others would get huge bonuses (detect good). We just have to make a strategic choice now.

This could be done with all spells/skills, making everything useful to everyone in its own way. Of course, not everyone could tap the master potential of most, or even some, of their abilities.

Would people be "using" each incarnation of the skill or would it be more like an upgrade?

The bonuses stack.

basic shield cleave
--advanced shield cleave (causes major damage on success)
--expert shield cleave (negates burnproof shieldblock for one tick)

A basic shield cleaver could shield cleave as it is done now. An advanced cleaver would cleave the shield AND cause damage. A master cleaver would either cleave the shield and cause damage or push it out of the way for a tick, removing the vital defense (and giving an alternative to skull crusher for haymaker, without negating the purpose of skull crusher).

Think of the master levels as warrior/ranger lores.

Would completely revamp our leveling system.

Actually it wouldn't. As you can see from the example skillsheet, it just adds a few more selectables (five to be exact). So the only change to levelling would be to choose a selectable skill every ten levels.

why not completely eliminate classes and go with fully customized skill/spell lists with a point buy system

I do NOT want a classless system. This change is anything BUT that. This change gives perks to class skills/spells but does NOT change what spells/skills the class has.

The idea is maintain the feeling of each class while allowing a little more freedom in the character build. A berserker will always play like a berserker in this new system. However, they will have hidden strengths/weaknesses that are unique to each character. These strengths are considerable but not game changing.

In this system, if I want to make a crazy dwarf who jumps in swinging like a maniac with his axes, I can do that. It will be reflected in the code. He really will be good with axes, dual wield, berserk, and will swing at all enemies. I can actually flesh out my concept instead of just pretending he is like that. This is getting into the code-backed RP advanced ideas I had earlier, with meaningful PK balance being addressed too. A very win-win change, for both RP and PK. I no longer am fighting the same berserker with just a different name.

I feel this change is the natural next step of paths. Paths made some classes unique, giving us three types of berserkers. They are all berserkers but each have their own way. With this system, each character would be effectively on their custom-designed 'path'. However, the available choices and number of choices make it so that a berserker will still be very much a berserker in the end. Another key point behind this choice.

I played a mud before this one and when they implemented a tier based system it went downhill to extinction.

A tier-based system like this one? There are a million factors that could have contributed to their fall. Maybe it wasn't balanced/designed well.

Remember, these are only super-perks added to some skills. The selections are very limited (5 per character), which again, is not much different than our current path system (which is very popular for the classes that is has been added to). This is NOTHING like a classless/free skill system.

I am a Celerity supporter. I like this idea.

Hooray Celerity! Good thing she can articulate well. I still think it sounds good.

I like it so far, but would like some elaboration as well.

I think it is a very good idea to give serks a bit more of a punch and the different selections would make them much more interesting, just like rangers.

Anything you would like to know more about?