counter

[Goru]

I am training predict right.. what I have noticed is you can train predict and twin counter at the minotaurs but why dosent counter get included?

If your using twin counter surely your using counter right?

[Aulian]

from reading the help. Try training jsut counter without dual weilding.

[Iusedtobesomebody]

A counter is usually a long sheet of wood, marble, granite or other materials and is used primarily to set things on as well as provide a covering to cabinets built underneath them. A nice counter, coupled with a stainless steel sink, can go a long way to make a house more desirable.

OH. Counter counter.

Whoops.

[KRins]

Help Counter will shine some light on the subject if you think about it. Also if you have played any other class that counters you will immediately see the difference between counter, twin counter, and predict.

And to answer your question, if you are using twin counter then you aren't using counter...or we wouldn't call it twin counter, comprende?

[Anoneemus]

Well, most things that can be countered by counter can also be countered by twin counter. I think all things, actually. I guess it doesn't work that way with predict.

[KRins]

Predict counters the things that counter doesn't...for the most part.

[Mudder]

Twin counter isn't the "extension" of counter.

Twin Counter is counter, except with two weapons at once. Twin counter is superior to counter and thus takes over and "replaces" it.

[corpsestomp]

Twin counter isn't the "extension" of counter.

Twin Counter is counter, except with two weapons at once. Twin counter is superior to counter and thus takes over and "replaces" it.

]

So you're saying that counter and twin counter are separate moves, and if you're dual wielding ONLY twin will go up, and not counter?

Unlike backstab/dual backstab?

[Mudder]

Exactly.

Dual backstab is an improvement on the original backstab.

Twin counter is merely another, different, form of counter. Not an improvement.

[KRins]

Mudder...I hate to rain on your parade, but you are completely wrong. Counter and twin counter are completely seperate entities. I promise you that twin counter and counter can be trained at the same time. If anything, twin counter is completely reliant on something else to set it off, be it a regular counter or a prediction. Twin counter is the extension of counter or predict. That is why you will find that sometimes, you only counter once with a prediction. Think about it like this, if you are holding two pistols in your hands and you are only cracking off shots with the left one you aren't really using dual pistols so much as occupying your right hand when it could be doing something else. Now you start firing them both...you've got something brewing. I like to think of prediction as a counter that is used on attacks both during and to open combat. Counter on the other hand is used only to open, only if you are not predicting whatever you happen to get attacked with (I think, in my experience it seems like combat opened on you with the move you are predicting results in the prediction text and yell if applicable). Twin counter is the action of getting your less dominant hand involved which applies to both prediction and counter, though it is its own animal. If I'm lying, I'm dying...and if I'm wrong, tell me so.

Regarding your dual backstab comment...it too is completely reliant on backstab, but its own animal as well. If you shoot an RPG at someone, you get the impact and the boom...the boom is reliant, but its a seperate world of hurt.

[Anoneemus]

Yeah, it seems like if you're predicting what the other person opens with, you'll predict/twin counter, and if you're not then you'll counter/twin counter. If that makes sense.

[KRins]

Yeah' date=' it seems like if you're predicting what the other person opens with, you'll predict/twin counter, and if you're not then you'll counter/twin counter. If that makes sense.[/quote']

perfect sense...good to know I have one concept of this game locked down tight.

[Mudder]

KRins, I cannot help but think you are merely restating half the things I said with a completely different, and wordy, flavor.

I said dual backstab was dependant on backstab. If backstab didn't happen, dual backstab couldn't.

I then said that was not true with twin counter. That twin counter would work if you didn't have the skill counter. If twin counter required counter to work before twin counter would then two things would be true: 1) Your proficiency of counter would rise slowly as you twin countered. 2) It would be called dual counter.

The name Twin Counter implies a counter with two. Not a second. AKA: It is alone.

It is possible I am wrong. I have only had one blademaster at 50, and not very long because I hate them. But I think i'm correct here. *shrug*

[KRins]

I feel like I'm refuting everything you said, but I might not have got that across. let me restate it: TWIN COUNTER does not in any way replace COUNTER or PREDICT. It builds on top of it like a house on a foundation. I'll even go so far as to say this...your statement about twin counter working without counter OR WITHOUT A PROPER PREDICTION (something you forgot to mention) is completely false. Practice only twin counter and have someone charge you...I promise you eat that charge every single time with 0 hope for any flavor of a counter. Twin counter does require two weapons (something I did not argue with so I don't know why you brought it up) but it is a completely seperate counter...hence the two damage messages as opposed to one "Super Counter". It is not alone...twin counter is about as good as casting as a zerker if you don't have a counter or prediction to set it off. Twin counter is more like equipment breaking from a hellstream than a seperate technique of its own...a nasty side effect of a bad day. All of this adds up to the fact that you can predict or counter and not have a twin counter fire, but twin counter does not fire on its own without a trigger.

[Goru]

Help Counter will shine some light on the subject if you think about it. Also if you have played any other class that counters you will immediately see the difference between counter, twin counter, and predict.

And to answer your question, if you are using twin counter then you aren't using counter...or we wouldn't call it twin counter, comprende?

Fair enough but how can you twin counter without a counter?

someone attacks you, wouldent you counter it before twin counter it, I just dont see why you cant counter and twin counter... considering you have to counter once before you get the second counter

[KRins]

Fair enough but how can you twin counter without a counter?

someone attacks you, wouldent you counter it before twin counter it, I just dont see why you cant counter and twin counter... considering you have to counter once before you get the second counter

OK...Check for Counter? Yes/No

If yes- Check for twin counter? Yes/No

Check for Predict? Yes/No

If yes-Check for twin counter? yes/no.

That is exactly what I am trying to say. Seperate but dependant.

[Goru]

I see, all im trying to say is you cant twin counter without counter because twin counter is counter except you get a second counter...

So why isent counter included when you twin counter.

[KRins]

Twin counter is not counter...hence the second check. Same as twin counter isn't predict.

[Evangelion]

This can be very easily explained using three different attack scenarios:

Scenario One

Bob walks in.

Phil yells, "Help! Bob kicked dirt into my eyes."

Bob's kicked dirt scratches Phil.

In this scenario, Phil is not predicting dirt kick, and dirt kick is not an attack that would be countered normally.

Scenario Two

Phil predicts dirt kick.

Bob walks in.

Phil yells, "You think you can surprise me, Bob?"

Phil's counter MUTILATES Bob!

Phil's second counter DISMEMBERS Bob!

In this scenario, Phil is predicting dirt kick. Therefore, his proficiency in twin counter and predict can increase. His proficiency in counter will remain unaffected.

Scenario Three

Bob walks in.

Phil yells, "Help! Bob just charged into me!"

Phil's counter MUTILATES Bob!

Phil's second counter DISMEMBERS Bob!

In this scenario, Phil is not predicting charge. However, charge is an attack that would normally be countered. Phil's proficiency in counter and twin counter will increase.

Now then, here's the final answer to your question:

To train Predict:

You must be predicting an attack.

A mob or player must use the attack against you. Your proficiency will go up regardless of success or failure.

You will gain proficiency in twin counter and predict.

To train Twin Counter:

Same as above.

Alternative method is to train counter. See below.

To train Counter:

A mob or player must use an attack that is counterable - in most cases, the "murder" command.

Your proficiency will go up regardless of success or failure.

You will gain proficiency in counter and twin counter.

I hope this clarifies.

[Raargant]

Scarily enough, Balinor essentially has the right of it and, in fact, gave the clearest explanation.

[Goru]

I understand that, in my head you would have to counter to twin counter, even if you are or not predicting...

but thats just in my head, makes sense to me, counter then twin counter, same skill except two attacks

[Evangelion]

Scarily enough' date=' Balinor essentially has the right of it and, in fact, gave the clearest explanation.[/quote']

I do what I can. It's what happens after you've played ten million blademasters.

[a-guitarist]

Of which we've only heard of one. So, as we can all see... even a blind balinor get's a nut.

Much love. Where the hell have you been as of late, anyways? I'd love to see a char of yours ingame.

a-g

[Evangelion]

Just finished school.

And if you've been playing recently, you've probably seen a character of mine in game.

[Goru]

You step quickly out of A flame demon's way ready for the bash!

Your counter MANGLES A flame demon!

Your second counter MASSACRES A flame demon!

Ok so You COUNTER!!!!!!!! COUNTER!!!!!!!!!!

so how can counter not be included?