Bah!

[Iusedtobesomebody]

Alright, having been back for three or four weeks now, I've been beginning to wonder how in the hell people rank. I've had 4 characters to 30+ (because soloing to there is cake), and NO GROUPS! Don't people do that anymore? I'm sick of 'guild-questing' for exp. Or is it all a nefarious plot to keep me away from 50.

Damn you all.

[Imoutgoodbye]

It's a plot. Totally. Actually, it's almost impossible to rank after 30 these days. If you're lucky, some 50 will help you when you hit 42.

*shrug* I dunno...sometimes it seems like everyone wants to be off doing their own thing (like guild quests or training), are selective about their group mates (we don't want a necro pre-34/35, they're worthless!), or it's a full group and when you kill off someone to get a spot, the other two evils get the stuff from his corpse and are super protective towards the poor mewling thing. :eek:

[Iusedtobesomebody]

I knew it!

Blasted plot.

[KRins]

I know your pain IUTBS... The worst part of it all is that there is always me and 1 other person in my grouping range, and that other person is a class that is piss poor at the rank they are at. I tried to bring the person along one time and it actually slowed me down because now I had to worry about 2 people getting hungry, thirsty, or jumped by the flippin gang of evils (or goods when I'm on my evil). IMMs any ideas to fix this? I've had a char chilling at 41 for about a week because no one is around to group with, and I don't actually know anything about these guild quests. To be honest, we shouldn't have to wander the lands trying to find some obscure place to get exp... Hell, half the places I'm told to go on clan quests I haven't even heard of...and since we can't quit to get a more reasonable quest...well I imagine you can imagine.

[Imoutgoodbye]

*bonks Krins on the head* No, no IMM help! Bad Democrat, bad! You wantin' government movin' in on we, the playerbase? This is OUR territory! We want help, we vote more. We want help, we advertise where we can!

And you only have to worry about second person when you're good or they are a newb. And helping a newb should be fun....it's like initiating another republican.

[Ex-D&Der]

The last one I did through questing, but that was before the exp was lowered. It's tough to find groups, hence the vote drive. I think we do need a concerted effort to get more players.

[goldbond]

we already achieved a serious milestone in the drive for new players- getting a consistent #5 on TMS. hopefully the website revamp will do the rest.

[a-guitarist]

I get pissed with the thieves running around jacking people. People want to get to 50, right? Then get to 50 and then start swinging that blackjack. What are going to get off a level 25 Paladin? A Mithril Vest to edge? Really...

I'm just sick of getting a group and having to watch my group scatter because some thief who is decked walks in and starts picking on someone. Let people rank. Christ. If the player base had more people, then I wouldn't have a problem with some sh*t stupid cycle RP that has been done and redone to (dare I say it?) death.

Sorry about the rant.

As for me, I've gotten about 5 characters to 30-38 and went, "Eh, not my cup of tea." So, I'm still in search of my grasp. I'm usually on every day and night, due to my rampant insomnia. We've probably hunted a few kills together, Iused. Rest assured that I'll be perpetually in that range.

a-g

[Aulian]

I know your pain IUTBS... The worst part of it all is that there is always me and 1 other person in my grouping range' date=' and that other person is a class that is piss poor at the rank they are at. I tried to bring the person along one time and it actually slowed me down because now I had to worry about 2 people getting hungry, thirsty, or jumped by the flippin gang of evils (or goods when I'm on my evil). IMMs any ideas to fix this? I've had a char chilling at 41 for about a week because no one is around to group with, and I don't actually know anything about these guild quests. To be honest, we shouldn't have to wander the lands trying to find some obscure place to get exp... Hell, half the places I'm told to go on clan quests I haven't even heard of...and since we can't quit to get a more reasonable quest...well I imagine you can imagine.[/quote']

This is a typical indication of how you can never make some people happy.

[a-guitarist]

To be honest' date=' we shouldn't have to wander the lands trying to find some obscure place to get exp... Hell, half the places I'm told to go on clan quests I haven't even heard of...and since we can't quit to get a more reasonable quest...well I imagine you can imagine.[/quote']

Are you serious?

a-g

[L-A]

It gets better when you break into the lvl 50 range:

High powered 50s come looking for your - I have one get 3 round me (alt+tab'd to the forum while sleeping in between runs). They had a 4 rank advantage. Another qrace 50 activated their 'special power' on me whlie I was rank 48. Quit out on his @$$ because I couldn't be bothered.

I know this has been happening for a while - but it seems that these days everyone wants to pick off an easy target (or has a dozen friends to call in when they get the horns of the bull they were chasing).

People in the range don't want to rank, they are trainnig (esp lvl 41s, sometimes as high as lvl 43 and 44). Fair enough - I point out that groups are a bit harder to get nowdays and that if I was still ranking I'd be grabbing any group and using the time's I couldn't to train.

How did I do it? Lots of guild quests. At least it keeps you moving.

L-A

[KRins]

Are you serious?

a-g

Dead, heart attack, cancer, boot to the head serious. Why don't we get exp every time we wander into a new area then? Makes a lot more sense to me. Consider how closed mouth everyone is, I've played on and off for a couple years and never met this Deso place even though I've asked in game like everyone is so fond of immediately saying to any question asked about things that aren't extremely basic. Consider that people have skills that aren't typical of their class because they studied under somebody, that somebody which they chose not to reveal despite it being incredibly obvious that I had no clue where they learned such skills from how I framed the question to them in game. There is an elite "secret society" for lack of a better term at 3 am, and they do everything they can to keep the down trodden the down trodden...unless they know that a certain character is played by someone they like IRL. OOC knowledge is what makes this world go round...not RP and certainly not an open, sharing, caring community. Even the IMMs do not answer direct questions posed to them half the time...they just use the infamous (and damn irritating) ask about it in game...which creates quite the cycle ya feel?

[KRins]

This is a typical indication of how you can never make some people happy.

And this is a typical indication of someone who actually already knows a lot of the secrets of the game, the locations of probably just about every item and mob, and needs to stop making posts that only serve the purpose of pissing the person you are quoting off. You are one of the people I am talking about who do very little to help the people around you in game. Even cabal mates. Yeah you might get a sanc staff for someone or something along those lines...but we all pretty much know who to fight to get that. When questions about more obscure items or concepts are posed, you change the subject...perpetuating the elites up here

And everyone else......somewhere in this neighborhood.

[Deykari]

Whilst I too am not a fan of 'information hoarding', don't forget that it's not neccessarily that. There are rules in place on the forums that prevent the spreading of certain information. As for IG, that's a whole different ball-game, and where my beef with information hoarding comes in...

Dey

[a-guitarist]

Man, I've never been to Winter, Desolace, Gear, Dischord, or any of those places. I've had only one 50. And I've only had 2 demons. That's it for my achievements.

I can't PK a paper bag.... even if I've got ranks on it. Let alone my way out of one.

But I still know where a lot things are. Just explore. And I agree with you... things are too closed mouth. But that's just the way things are. If I've got knowledge and I'm asked in game, I share it. As long as it's kosher with the rules.

If I need help killing something that's a quest? I get help and teach them what do so that I benefit from it. And the only reason I know where these quests are is because someone probably needed my help at one point.

Just keep asking, you're probably asking the wrong people. And what compounds the difficulty in this is the few amount of players around.

I've got MAJOR issues with people going, "I figured it out myself, so should you! I spent X hours doing this and busting my butt to figure this out, I earned it, your turn now!" and then have the same people bitch about there not being enough players and "what can we do to make this game better?" Well, open up the info.

Yeah, I've learned a ton by myself. But I share the knowledge, if it's with the rules. I may not agree with all the rules 100% of the time, but I'll be damned if I'm going to break them. I like playing here.

But, I feel your pain. But respect their rights to keep the edge. If you want to know what they know, and they aren't sharing... make a healer and go ID a buncha crap. Start walking through every area and trying to go in each direction where there isn't an exit in each and every room. That's how you find stuff.

I remember when I figured out how to cast Malform Weapon correctly. All I had to do was read the Help file and try it a few times.

I remember when WC and Calandra sat down together and read help files and where each one led (some without, see also: ) until they found out about Conclave. And we all know how Calandra used that Conclave info

Open your eyes, notice things. But, at the same time, to everyone else: Share it, or lose it. It's that simple.

a-g

[KRins]

Dey and a-g you really lowered my blood pressure. I'm just going to go back to fighting the good fight...whatever comes may come. The day I beat down someone decked in stuff I can't even spell...well celebratory beer for me.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Bingo! It is up, to us, the playerbase to decide how to help people. It's like Democrats versus Republicans and we have John McCain's one side and Ted Kennedy's on the other....or...I don't know...

Anyways, it's about us using our characters in game to do what we can. There are those who have the "I did it that way, you do it that way" attitude and I'll admit, I'm that way about some things.

But to each their own and eventually, every newb will learn from us.

I know that the new web page is going to have TONS of information when it gets here, so you'll see a vast improvement there.

[Deykari]

I'm not saying this based on any observations through playing (as I have none on the matter at the minute), it's just a general comment. It's really not hard to help out somebody who is after something or who is obviously new, regardless of align, cabal, roleplay and all that.

I'm not trying to preach or anything, just that next time you get a tell from someone asking where X is (provided they do it properly, and not just beg for you to give them answers on a plate) don't think "Dude, I'm a badass DK, I don't help anyone," but at least consider finding an IG way to answer them, or even give them a slight hint or pointer. I remember with my Demon, Wymsicant, asking a Knight a question (as I was pretending to be their friend). Instead of getting the stock "I will not help you, Demonic thingie! Die!" response, I got something along the lines of "Hah! You evil creature, I will never tell you that the location of X is within Y.... oh, I mean... argh! My Captain will not be happy!".

I thought that was a very clever way of helping an enemy out. That sort of help can take on so many forms. E.g, Avatar fighting Undead and tools the Undead constantly, Avatar tells Undead as a tip hidden in roleplay, "You damn fiend! I feel your unholy weakening me! You must perish!", or the big headed approach: "You weak fool. I remember hearing a tale of those of your profession using to decimate my bretheren, yet I am much too strong for that!".

Yeah, I'm rambling on again.

Dey

[Aulian]

And this is a typical indication of someone who actually already knows a lot of the secrets of the game, the locations of probably just about every item and mob, and needs to stop making posts that only serve the purpose of pissing the person you are quoting off. You are one of the people I am talking about who do very little to help the people around you in game. Even cabal mates. Yeah you might get a sanc staff for someone or something along those lines...but we all pretty much know who to fight to get that. When questions about more obscure items or concepts are posed, you change the subject...perpetuating the elites up here

And everyone else......somewhere in this neighborhood.

LOL remove your foot from your mouth before I stick mine up your arse.

All of my last pinns, for the last I dont know, four years? have had the newbie chat. They all ACTIVELY help newbs, so much so to even direct them to the forums then contact them OOC through the forums to help them with stuff they are having trouble with.

Someone strike me down if Im lying.

You know how I learnt the lands? I got alot of other peoples characters killed by thinking I could lead/wanting to lead to learn the lands and when on trips asking HEAPS of questions.. No one tells me crap ooc. I personally HATE ooc relationships because all it leads to is WHY DID YOU KILL ME AND LOOT ME. (I often used to do this myself and I was disgusted at my own behaviour after I had cooled down.)

There is NO knowledge that I wont share within reason. I keep it a personal motto that things are BEST learnt through self discovery. The reason I can run from Rhydien to the Red Determinant (obviously if I wasnt being attacked my mobs) blind is because I walked all those steps myself without help.

[Aulian]

But I still know where a lot things are. Just explore. And I agree with you... things are too closed mouth. But that's just the way things are. If I've got knowledge and I'm asked in game, I share it. As long as it's kosher with the rules.

Just keep asking, you're probably asking the wrong people. And what compounds the difficulty in this is the few amount of players around.

I've got MAJOR issues with people going, "I figured it out myself, so should you! I spent X hours doing this and busting my butt to figure this out, I earned it, your turn now!" and then have the same people bitch about there not being enough players and "what can we do to make this game better?" Well, open up the info.

Yeah, I've learned a ton by myself. But I share the knowledge, if it's with the rules. I may not agree with all the rules 100% of the time, but I'll be damned if I'm going to break them. I like playing here.

a-g

I agree with alot of what you have to say within reason.

One of the major attactions of this game is that there is no FAQ/walkthrough. On ANY other title you can type in the name at google and have 100 different authored walkthroughs to read through.

This game doesnt have that and thats AWESOME.

Information must be shared in game, I cant think of the last time I said to someone "im not going to tell you that." I can however remember telling someone "Hell you're nuts if you think you can go through Deso with just a healer and yourself when you dont even know the general layout - for that reason dont count me in."

You are one of the people I am talking about who do very little to help the people around you in game. Even cabal mates.

That really pissed me off. My cabal characters have ALWAYS taken time to help people along. HELL. I used to sit for HOURS training people how to fight and what to do better be they warriors, druids, rangers, ninja's, thieves, berserkers. Hell I've even learnt a hell of a lot more from those fights myself.

Secondly, you arent here to be coddled by your cabal mates. Hell I've gotten slayed for coddling before.

Whilst I too am not a fan of 'information hoarding'' date=' don't forget that it's not neccessarily that. There are rules in place on the forums that prevent the spreading of certain information. As for IG, that's a whole different ball-game, and where my beef with information hoarding comes in... [/quote']

Exactly.

There is an elite "secret society" for lack of a better term at 3 am' date=' and they do everything they can to keep the down trodden the down trodden...unless they know that a certain character is played by someone they like IRL. OOC knowledge is what makes this world go round...not RP and certainly not an open, sharing, caring community. Even the IMMs do not answer direct questions posed to them half the time...they just use the infamous (and damn irritating) ask about it in game...which creates quite the cycle ya feel?[/quote']

Thats hardly the case. If that was true Deykari wouldnt say a word, nor would L-A provide millions of ideas on tactics in PK's. Mya wouldnt be chirping about wrong bits of code and all the rest of us who make an active effort to help people would not bother - in other words, there owuldnt be a newbie section in this forum.

Even the IMMs do not answer direct questions posed to them half the time...they just use the infamous (and damn irritating) ask about it in game...

You know, what pisses me off so much is when the Imms dont answer my questions or reply to my suggestions. But eventually I go, "Screw them, I'll try it out this way." And I figure it out for myself and because of that my strategies improve greatly, and they arent ideas other people have thought of. (thank you for ignoring me and making me feel utterly neglected )

Conclusion:

Ranking is hard at the moment, I will agree 100%. But it is by NO means impossible. Guild quests have been implemented to help with the problem. I might not agree the EXP is what it should be, but it is a damn well improvement from having to try and solo rank at hte higher ranks.

[KRins]

You know what? That is very impressive. I'm still working on Miruvhor to Val Miran blind. Doesn't change the fact that knowledge is hoarded here, and I happen to have experienced exactly that from you. To be honest I felt so weak and meaningless that I chose not to even bother you anymore with questions. That might not have been your intention, heck maybe you even missed my message...I do it all the time when I'm checking aff, equipment, and stuff along those lines.

I'm doing my best to not call you an arsehat or something along those lines, because now that I've had time to chill out I realize that technically the only real advantages here are a non-laggy connection, knowledge, and being able to avoid the deadly ISP disconnect. Maybe I should just take the lead in my parties, and whatever happens happens. I thought it would be more thoughtful to not take the reins if it seemed like someone else had a better grasp of the situation. I guess from here on out if I can I will lead, if I can't I will ask the directions, if they won't give them... I'll keep the knee jerk reaction to a minimum.

PS: It isn't very impressive to makes threats over the internet...

[Aulian]

Lol you're obviously talking about my current pinn Dumela, and thats fine - my rp is to be a 2ft tornado. Im not a nanny. Im not a maid. My singular purposes in life are in this order: Fight, Jools (eq), Woman and booze. Hell Im not even supposed to be a Watcher.

Blame Dey.

Edit: But i'll tell you whats even less impressive: When people (and not always the same person every time) are willing to help and share, and the power of all this information lies IN YOUR HANDS, yet you still complain on a forum instead of finding something to do about it.

For example: The Valcano,

New area, no one knew about it. We couldnt ask about it or share information about it yet we went out and explored it. In result I have suffered about 15 deaths on numerous characters exploring that place. But I can say for my efforts I know the place pretty damn well. We didnt ask for the info, you just went out and died getting it.

[Kyzarius]

Knowledge hording? How dare players here not share everything they know wih everyone. Let us strip all mystery from the game and put up walkthroughs for the toughest areas and leveling guides? That way people wont have to think at all. How about I post the locations of all the shrines for you, I know I spent months scouring the game for them....so you should of course just have this handed to you (shrines are an EXAMPLE, I dont know if you found them all or not).

The restrictions in place in FL on the sharing of information promotes exploration, it forces people to learn the game by playing it, not by reading some spoiler. This very nature has kept myself, and many others I am sure, interested in this game for more than half a decade now. Why? because thre is STILL aspects I dont know or understand.

What you seem to forget, rather quickly in your rants about classified information and elitism, is that these people who are called "vets" (and I dont personally put myself in that category...as imho it is the job of your peers to judge you exceptional) had to work and scrimp and search an explore and apply and be patient to gather the information they have. You asking to have the world cracked open and all revealed to you is almost insulting to those who really put the personal time and attention into it to learn.

I know its frustrating, but in order to learn you have to put out the effort, I doubt anytime soon that this will change no matter how much roof burning you do in the name of free information. Just remember that its ALL DISCOVERABLE in game, through exploration or RP. I mean really, how do you think people like myself, or dey, or any other player thats been here a while learned what we know?

[Aulian]

Knowledge hording? How dare players here not share everything they know wih everyone. Let us strip all mystery from the game and put up walkthroughs for the toughest areas and leveling guides? That way people wont have to think at all. How about I post the locations of all the shrines for you, I know I spent months scouring the game for them....so you should of course just have this handed to you (shrines are an EXAMPLE, I dont know if you found them all or not).

The restrictions in place in FL on the sharing of information promotes exploration, it forces people to learn the game by playing it, not by reading some spoiler. This very nature has kept myself, and many others I am sure, interested in this game for more than half a decade now. Why? because thre is STILL aspects I dont know or understand.

What you seem to forget, rather quickly in your rants about classified information and elitism, is that these people who are called "vets" (and I dont personally put myself in that category...as imho it is the job of your peers to judge you exceptional) had to work and scrimp and search an explore and apply and be patient to gather the information they have. You asking to have the world cracked open and all revealed to you is almost insulting to those who really put the personal time and attention into it to learn.

I know its frustrating, but in order to learn you have to put out the effort, I doubt anytime soon that this will change no matter how much roof burning you do in the name of free information. Just remember that its ALL DISCOVERABLE in game, through exploration or RP. I mean really, how do you think people like myself, or dey, or any other player thats been here a while learned what we know?

You sir, put that better then my 2am mind ever could. props.

[Deykari]

Knowledge hording? How dare players here not share everything they know wih everyone. Let us strip all mystery from the game and put up walkthroughs for the toughest areas and leveling guides? That way people wont have to think at all. How about I post the locations of all the shrines for you, I know I spent months scouring the game for them....so you should of course just have this handed to you (shrines are an EXAMPLE, I dont know if you found them all or not).

I agree here. FL should not be broken wide open and have it's secrets unlocked to all. The game would be little fun that way.

The restrictions in place in FL on the sharing of information promotes exploration, it forces people to learn the game by playing it, not by reading some spoiler. This very nature has kept myself, and many others I am sure, interested in this game for more than half a decade now. Why? because thre is STILL aspects I dont know or understand.

Again, I agree.

What you seem to forget, rather quickly in your rants about classified information and elitism, is that these people who are called "vets" (and I dont personally put myself in that category...as imho it is the job of your peers to judge you exceptional) had to work and scrimp and search an explore and apply and be patient to gather the information they have. You asking to have the world cracked open and all revealed to you is almost insulting to those who really put the personal time and attention into it to learn.

Rants and specific arguments about this aside (including the one in this thread), this is what I disagree with, within reason. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong - I'm saying I simply have a differing opinion. Sure, most of the vets learned what they learned off of their own backs - but in a time where the game environment was vastly different to how it is now. Rather than having a minority of players who earned the knowledge themselves being able to use it as an advantage, over the years as players have dwindled and the remaining players have gained this knowledge (be it off their own backs, through OOC leaks, which DOES happen and even through the released code, so much of the game is now exposed to a LOT of people), we are now in a situation where a lot, lot more of the playerbase knows where to find item X, what item Y does and how skill Z works. If you don't know any of that, you are at a big disadvantage, and due to the length of time most vets have been playing, is it really feasible to say to somebody in the present, "Play here for X years if you want to find this out."?

I'm not suggesting the MUD be cracked wide open. All I'm saying is, what does it matter if you help somebody IG and let them know where to find something, or where a location is? We all know full well that EQ and even knowing what some of the lesser-classified skills/spells do doesn't make someone a good player, it's mostly the experience they get in fighting at 50. Helping someone with a little knowledge isn't going to make you lose all advantage, but it'll go a long way to ensuring that people don't feel so alienated from the 'vets'. I'm not saying you guys don't do this by the way, as I happen to know both yourself and Aulian are very helpful, classy players - I'm just generalising.

If the vast majority of the playerbase has this "find it out yourself" attitude, you are essentially closing off the MUD to a lot of people who would play with a little helping hand. I'm not talking about the people who expect everything on a plate - I hate that. I'm talking about the people who are willing to put effort in, or have done and failed - and are looking for that little pointer that will unlock the 'next level of the game' to them. I'm not talking giving shrine info out, or what item X specifically does.

Again, this is my own opinion and I'm not saying it's right. I just feel that sometimes, we could do with being a little helpful and not completely shut out newer players when to be fair, some of the tips we can pass down will only serve to help retain players and help them be that little more competitive... FL wouldn't be fun with 1000's of Deykari's running around to effortlessly slay now would it?

I know its frustrating, but in order to learn you have to put out the effort, I doubt anytime soon that this will change no matter how much roof burning you do in the name of free information. Just remember that its ALL DISCOVERABLE in game, through exploration or RP. I mean really, how do you think people like myself, or dey, or any other player thats been here a while learned what we know?

I don't think KRins is looking for people to dish out info on a plate. I just think sometimes the competitive nature of PK within the MUD can detract from helping (helping, not handing out info on a plate to) newer players, when if you think about it, it's not really going to matter too much if you IGly tell someone that utilising mana charge when you have exactly 723 mana turns you into a VampiEDITED FOR REVEALING QRACE INFO.

Sorry for rambling on yet again.

Dey