Bah!

[L-A]

Look, its simple - on your next character get into a cabal and tell yourself that you are there to learn. Ask other cabal members things, fight them, log and look at your fights. Ask cabal members why they beat you - remember what they said and try to change based on what they say. Often I say something to a player or character and they fight me again the same way - and lose the same way. These players tend to get told the same thing a few times then get nothing from me. Why? They aren't going to learn - they just want do what they want to do. Fine - but they won't get better or have a solution laid out by me.

Conversly, players who do try with what I ask tend to not need the solution laid out. They start to think, they get harder to fight - and when (not if) they get to a point where it simply eludes them I will usually outright show someone what they are missing if they have been putting effort in.

I remember similiar posts a long time ago and Velimir replied with something like:

'How many hours have you spent looking at logs of fight working out what went wrong?

How many characters have you had die over and over to better caballed players?

How many hours and deaths have you spent attempting over and over to work out the harder lvl 50 areas?

How many hours have you spent trying to walk through every wall in every area looking for secrets?'

I remember reading this - and doing a lot of what Velimir said. It takes time but it works. I learnt a lot doing things this way. The major component in doing this is checking your ego at the door.

L-A

[Calron]

Regarding the topic, my thoughts lie almost exactly with Dey's.

We are comparing two completely different atmospheres. When I was scrounging around to learn back in the day, there were only a very select few who knew Factions, Gear, Desolation, etc. In fact, people didn't even go to those places until 2.0 when Despiser and co. basically introduced the "godsuit" phase. There was a thread asking about the difference between equip and PK Logs between now and then, and the answer is that until 2.0 and those few people who started the super-equip era, people never went to any of those places. The godsuit phase is actually what inspired the revamp of saves if I remember right.

Back to the topic though. A large (prevailing) majority of characters in game these days can lead through Faction of Steel. A somewhat smaller, but still HUGE compared to the old days can lead through Gear and Desolation.

When we were scrounging to get every detail through exploration, we were on par with everyone else, we were the majority. That is simply not the case for new players these days. They are the minority trying to learn, versus a prevailing majority who already know these things. It used to be a horde of people with slingshots against two guys with swords, now it is two guys with slingshots versus a horde of people with swords.

A lot of you are acting as though people like KRins are somehow lesser qualified or worthy to learn because he simply cannot go through what we did. However, it is not a matter of going through what we did, you are telling him to go through something 5-10X harder.

My last point, mainly to KRins and people in his shoes, if you are trying hard to learn, ask a lot of questions on the forum, but I would also send an experienced player a PM asking them to be your tutor. They will say yes, trust me.

[Ex-D&Der]

The godsuit phase is actually what inspired the revamp of saves if I remember right.

The saves revamp came with the shift to 2.0. The equipment phase you refer to was in 2.0.

[Aulian]

I would also send an experienced player a PM asking them to be your tutor. They will say yes' date=' trust me.[/quote']

I actually have an AIM account for this very purpose. And when they get to the point where I cant teach them any more I delete them so I dont yell at them when they kill me and loot me

[Deykari]

It used to be a horde of people with slingshots against two guys with swords, now it is two guys with slingshots versus a horde of people with swords.

Ah, I like that.

Dey

[samag08]

After going through a good few melee pinns and not getting to the level of play that I wanted to be at I made a healer character and LITERALLY went from room to room in each and every area and had a hotkey set to open up,down,etc. I found all the shrines on my own. I killed/requested and ID'ed EVERY piece of equipment along the way and saved it in logs. Been a LONG time since then but I think that that took me only a matter of a few weeks really. Just do not get sidetracked. Tough area? So what spend an hour or two soloing 3 mobs to learn the stuff they carry.

What I find very useful too, even now, is a well organized layout of equipment setups in logs. For example I have one main folder that is divided into items for each bodypart. Light - , Fingers - , etc and I list all the saved id's from each category there. Then I have compiled different sets of equipment into different folders. I want all hitdam with say an ogre ranger? No problem, have a folder for "neutral H/D" Which lists my top 5 choices and at least one non rare for each eq slot. Saves sets also. So no matter what align/race/class I am playing I simply focus on my current set of opposition and say "Ok lots of mages, need to jack up the saves." Click "Saves" folder and voila, a laid out list of exactly what I should be wearing from my number 1 choice to my number 5 choice for each slot. Rares not in? No problem get the listed non rare.

I've been here playing since 2001-2002ish so I have made apretty good list of items and whatnot and perhaps some believe that that is too much work but if I am not dressed and ready to fight I ALWAYS have a purpose by that single click and just go down the list until I am dressed quickly and well. Heh, I am a bit of an organization freak at heart. I have many such folders: Good/Neut/Evil hitdam setlists, Aff sets, Mal sets, mental sets/ 15 minute basic equip lists for each align, etc.

My best advice for ANY player is to not just sit lolligagging around and always have a "purpose" for being on. and if dressed right and with a good few logs of battles you will improve very quickly.

[Aulian]

RE: samag08 - lol overkill? (pssst, wanna send me those files?)

[corpsestomp]

I have every piece of equipment in a single eq file, hehe.

[Psycho Child]

You people need help.

[samag08]

RE: samag08 - lol overkill? (pssst' date=' wanna send me those files?)[/quote']

Just a matter of utilizing logs and making a few(literally less than a minute) keystrokes and clicks from said.

Also the list is old, some stuff is not even there anymore, other things are/have never been on it. I just record as I go.

[mya]

After going through a good few melee pinns and not getting to the level of play that I wanted to be at I made a healer character and LITERALLY went from room to room in each and every area and had a hotkey set to open up' date='down,etc. I found all the shrines on my own. I killed/requested and ID'ed EVERY piece of equipment along the way and saved it in logs. Been a LONG time since then but I think that that took me only a matter of a few weeks really. Just do not get sidetracked. Tough area? So what spend an hour or two soloing 3 mobs to learn the stuff they carry.[/quote']

That is the spirit. This is what people should do instead of complain.

My notepad file is just one big list, with the items with Location (area) and who has them.

With two extra sections, one for Herbs, and another for detailed Quest list information complete with ongoing quests hints i am working on.

[Pali]

Heh... I've never had eq lists, maps of areas...