Taking a short break

[Montahg]

What's wrong with my group of three summon/slamming you do death?

What's wrong with me sitting at your temple so when you recall hurt I can paste you?

All too frequently these days (in FL and IRL alike) I see many people with the attitude 'If I can do, I will do it.' The areas with the high lvl eq were made hard for a reason - and I don't think that reason was so players could work out ways to solo them. IMHO, they are meant to be done in groups.

Why hasn't this been fixed then? Well, lots of new skills and ablities have been introduced since these areas were created and my guess is IMPs have only so much time and something like this is somewhat down the priority scale on their list.

Been there, done it, killed all of Cabal A in my non-super eq and taken theirs. For the longest time I was the only Warmaster and routinely fought against 2 - 4 Savants. Invokers, battlemages, clerics, shamen, healers and a psion. Guess what - never ran, never backed down and rarely died.

I've also logged on as a NEXUS with 5 vendetta's and at least one of all cabal s represented. 20 minutes later I was the only one left in the 50 PK range - all others logged and/or (most and) dead. 50% rare eq, 50% non-rare eq vs full cabal abliities of Justice, WM, Knight and others.

Its not all about eq and numbers.

L-A

While I agree that there are definately "cheap" methods of going about *anything* within the realms, whether it be pk or equipment gathering, I don't think anyone should limit themselves in their styles and methods of getting through these tough areas simply because it's a "cheap" method. The immortals will eventually, if not instantly, catch on and correct the problem. Remember when Jevrax dominated the entire pbase with ease? Minister was altered, and it was altered fast. Jevrax quickly went from being impossible to kill, to allowing opponents a chance.

These points you bring up, in my opinion, should be worked out through player testing before they are ever even implemented onto the mud. Steel able to be solo'd? Tweak it so it's tougher. Maybe it's currently in the process of being tweaked, maybe it's not, but it is the way it is, and if I can get through it by calming every mob, you're damn right I'm going to do it.

As far as being an underdog in a cabal with little to no other members, what about an instance where someone isn't as good at pk as you may be, L-A? What if I can't log on to several other cabal enemies and defeat them all? I don't know how good you are, because I don't know many of your past players, but when I was in Savant with Felhara, I was damn near the only Savant, and I got walloped time and time again. I *never* had anything better than brooches of life/sparkling rings/blue bracers. All too often, and I feel the same about this in life in general, not just the mud, the "better off" are given more incentives/rewards than those that struggle. I had no chance of becoming powerful with Felhara. I was awful at pk, and that's my fault, but I also had no backup, and that was not my fault.

If these areas are meant to be done in groups, then make *SURE* of that through player testing, prior to the area being added to the general populace. You may hate me for saying what I say, but I can sincerely say that I respect your opinion, L-A, on a level higher than most people on the forums. I apologize if you do not agree, but I feel you are just whining that people are using their natural abilities granted to them by their class selection to get through these areas.

Tweak the skills/spells, tweak the areas, but don't rely on the players to tweak their mentalities. You may convince others, you may convince me, but there will always be someone who goes against the grain. Someone who doesn't give two cents about your thoughts.

[Twinblades713]

but when I was in Savant with Felhara' date=' I was damn near the only Savant, and I got walloped time and time again. [/quote']

Hey! Skax was with you most of the time! But... then again, he wasn't a support system at all... I was dressed worse than you were. But nonetheless... I was there!

...I pheyl

lol...sorry

[Montahg]

Hey! Skax was with you most of the time! But... then again, he wasn't a support system at all... I was dressed worse than you were. But nonetheless... I was there!

...I pheyl

lol...sorry

Your pk power has increased by leaps and bounds, it is true. I do remember, however, having to more or less "protect" you while in Savant.

If it is any consolation to you, I'm sure you would dominate me 9 out of 10 fights nowadays.

[Nekky]

In a weird way, I almost like the way equipment is now. Sure it's frustrating not being able to re-gear in nice rares after a pdeath, and there are certain pieces of equipment that I am convinced have vanished from the game (solar mace, for one), but it really adds an extra value to rare equipment when it's actually rare.

It means it's in high demand, and this in turn promotes the need to raise your personal PK bar if you want to get your grubby little hands on it. It will encourage people to go out there and try new and innovative ways of PKing enemies, rather than just favouring the people who're on at the right times to get the groups into Gear, Desolation and other places with high-end gear.

I dislike being full-looted as much as anyone, but I do like the idea that with full looting gear will rotate and cycle around the pbase, rather than sitting constantly with a top echelon of very hard to kill caballed classes who never seem to die, or always seem to have life-insurance if they do. People seem to think that "I wanted your gear" is a lame or RP-deficient reason for killing someone, but I never agreed and I think that in a climate where rares are actually tough to find, it is even more valid. It could even lead to interesting and previously unexplored RP potential. If high-demand items are rare, an entrepreneurial character(s) could play the role of a merchant, black-market dealer, or whatever else takes their fancy. Gear could have enough of a value to actually make it a tradable commodity. As opposed to a person just saying "To hell with you, it'll take me 5 minutes to get it myself."

It's true that many classes will struggle without decent wares, but I don't think the solution is to make rares more common or easier to get. In truth, most melee classes can get a 30 30 hit dam with no rare gear at all, and that is a solid base to build on with a few rares here and there. And melee classes are usually the ones that people claim are useless without high-end wares.

Re: Kyzarius specifically.

It sucks that you've been full-looted a lot lately, and I know it's frustrating. But I have to say (not meaning to be inflammatory) that if your current 50 is who I think it is, your RP is not exactly unconfrontational. When I first came back with my berzerker, my first interaction with you was in Rheyding CC, where you were essentially saying things like "I could destroy you with a thought if I was so inclined", and, "I'm just considering whether or not I should obliterate you for my own ends".

I'm not saying this is a bad RP to have, or that it reflects on you as a person in any way. But it IS the type of RP that would encourage someone to full loot you if they were lucky enough to land the kill, for self preservation if nothing else. From our limited interaction, I definately considered that you were the type who just might attack me at any time.

That being said, I hope you make more characters and keep playing, as the mud benefits from your RP and PK.

-N

[Montahg]

That being said, I hope you make more characters and keep playing, as the mud benefits from your RP and PK.

-N

I couldn't agree more. You've had great RP with almost all of your chars (that I can remember right now), and your interaction with the pbase definately helps the game be more enjoyable.

[Mali]

I still look for the "one ring" in the shire, on a certain hobbit. But all I find is sting and some crappy brass leggings...

[Iusedtobesomebody]

Unfortunately, until the staff finds it to be ABUSIVE, nothing will change. Just because you (and I) think it is cheap, does not make it wrong.

[Montahg]

Unfortunately' date=' until the staff finds it to be ABUSIVE, nothing will change. Just because you (and I) think it is cheap, does not make it wrong.[/quote']

Prayer forum. Use it.

[Calron]

If you are who I think you are, I was really liking your char. Just remember the reasons why you play FL. I came across this post/thread last night and I thought it was refreshing even for me. Take a sec and re-read (I'm sure you've read it before)

http://www.forsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10516

[L-A]

Prayer forum. Use it.

You're right about that one - about a week ago I had a go at someone for bringing it here and yet I haven't followed my own advice here (despite meaning to for a while). Smack in the head for me.

L-A

[Montahg]

Our staff does a ****ing excellent job, grats to Malchaeius and all others that run this mud.

Don't like it? Have fun finding another mud with a staff as great as the one we have. Unfortunately, a lot of things aren't pointed out until they become abusive. Have no doubt, whatsoever, that an imm watches you. They watch everyone. You, your brother, and your mom. They watch you all. They make a list, they check it twice. They find out who's naughty (and tell me) and who's nice (and don't tell me).

This mud is absolutely spectacular. You will never find a mud as awesome as Forsaken, it's just not possible. I've been mudding for 12+ years, and I am genuinely disappointed that I didn't come across this mud until a little over a year ago. Malch does a great job. Anume is an absolutely amazing cabal imm and roleplayer, as well as Lytholm. Only Jesus could do a better job than our current imm staff.

[L-A]

As far as being an underdog in a cabal with little to no other members, what about an instance where someone isn't as good at pk as you may be, L-A? What if I can't log on to several other cabal enemies and defeat them all? I don't know how good you are, because I don't know many of your past players, but when I was in Savant with Felhara, I was damn near the only Savant, and I got walloped time and time again. I *never* had anything better than brooches of life/sparkling rings/blue bracers. All too often, and I feel the same about this in life in general, not just the mud, the "better off" are given more incentives/rewards than those that struggle. I had no chance of becoming powerful with Felhara. I was awful at pk, and that's my fault, but I also had no backup, and that was not my fault.

If these areas are meant to be done in groups, then make *SURE* of that through player testing, prior to the area being added to the general populace. You may hate me for saying what I say, but I can sincerely say that I respect your opinion, L-A, on a level higher than most people on the forums. I apologize if you do not agree, but I feel you are just whining that people are using their natural abilities granted to them by their class selection to get through these areas.

Tweak the skills/spells, tweak the areas, but don't rely on the players to tweak their mentalities. You may convince others, you may convince me, but there will always be someone who goes against the grain. Someone who doesn't give two cents about your thoughts.

Some of that is a fair call - I've had a fair amount of experience and success (though if I name my last couple of pinnacles you wouldn't know it) from time to time.

I'll share a secret with you though - I was exactly the same as most players when I started. I loved PK but I wasn't good at it. I didn't like losing because others had eq and I didn't (something that wasn't quite the big deal it is today), I didn't like dying in general. I didn't like being multi-killed (still don't) and I didn't like players who patrolled the ranking areas on a regular basis killing off me and my sub-50 friends. I hated the lvl 30 qrace applicants who would kill and full loot you.

When I hit lvl 50, I still died to players - sometimes ones I had never seen before or saw again without a word to me. Full loots all around.

When I got caballed I loved it. Cool new abilities and some 'friends' who sort of helped you. I also got my @$$ kicked until my nose bled everytime by the same people in the opposing cabal. I got beat down, had to run, hid then looked at logs only to get smacked around again. Sometimes I would die, sometimes I'd manage to hide. Then I'd log off, log on later and do it again.

Basically, I became good by wanting to be good and didn't stop until I made it. The same was Despiser, Dey, Balinor, Aulian and pretty much anyone else around here (or any MUD I would imagine) became good. We stuck it out.

Make no mistake, I had my share of yelling, screaming and so on along the way. Frustation came and went. Its part of learning.

I still get frustrated and angry when I die. It blows. It always will. Its also part of what makes the game worth playing.

Hang in their guys - I've said it before, if you want help with logs or stuff look me up on the PM and I'll give you a hand. No problem.

L-A

[Montahg]

It's honestly extremely relieving to hear you say that. I am glad that even though we disagree, we can still come to a certain common grounds on this topic.

As a side note, your inbox is full, clear that shizzle for me would ya?!

[Mudder]

Basically, I became good by wanting to be good and didn't stop until I made it. The same was Despiser, Dey, Balinor, Aulian and pretty much anyone else around here (or any MUD I would imagine) became good. We stuck it out.

L-A

I wasn't named but thats because I was always good.

[Twinblades713]

I wasn't named but thats because I was always good.

Or the other one.

...Dangit I suck still so I can't punk on anyone. Or can I?

Mudder sucks!

._. Don't kill me.

[Montahg]

Or the other one.

...Dangit I suck still so I can't punk on anyone. Or can I?

Mudder sucks!

._. Don't kill me.

Oh burn!!!!!!!!

Actually I think Mudder could own both you and I even if he only could play with one hand.

[goldbond]

(not saying this is you Kyz) but why full loot an uncaballed melee. why even full loot a caballed melee if you see he has no support. it's gay. take his Sword of Instant Monster Destruction and his Armor of Awesome Progs if you must, but full looting is total anus. actually i wouldnt feel bad if it happened to Kyz, but to people who play here in general. if their melee has no awesome support network, why full loot them? try to be vigilant about things folks. you aren't the l33t 16 year old anymore, jesus some of you even have kids now.

[KRins]

Alright...summing up my thoughts on this thread. Yeah it completely sucks that you can get full looted if you make a single mistake in a PK (or sometimes even after a mob death...that just makes me sad) fight. Most other online multiplayer games don't have looting. A lot of muds do on the other hand. You sacrifice graphics for risk/reward. MUDs in my mind are like a combination of MMORPGs and no limit hold em. Sometimes you get dealt bad cards and lose everything. Sometimes you get that magical river card and win it all...if you can't stomach the risk don't go in the casino. At the same time I think full looting is a dick move...it is basically making sure you upset, piss off, and disrupt the next hour or two (for a relatively crappy suit, especially considering that rares...are really rare lately. I'm found more diamonds in my backyard then some rares in the past couple months.) of their gaming life. If that's what you're all about do it up, but I think its pretty classless. My hugest pet peeve regarding full loots are full loots to dress a clanny or other ally. Just because you could beat me and take my stuff doesn't mean I wouldn't complete thrashed your buddy who you dressed (who is generally about lvl 38 I've noticed) and is conveniently out of my PK range. If that's what you're all about do it...but its pretty much a modified way to horde rares from your enemies by dressing up mid level clannies. Classless in my opinion.

[Nekky]

Despite what my feelings on full looting, I can honestly say I never do it unless in very extreme circumstances. Even caballed players I'm in a vendetta with can say that I have never in recent memory full looted them. This is despite the fact that I'm a Nexus berzerker.

I will generally only take what I need, and even if there are multiple things I could use, I generally only take the best one or two.

I may full loot in situations where a person I've beaten has either tried to gang me or successfully ganged me. I may full loot if the person I've beaten has full looted me. I may full loot if a person asks me for a 'duel to the stun' so I won't flee the area, then kills you, and I catch them later.

Or if other instances or random cheapness have occurred between us.

But the instances in which I will full loot are very, very infrequent. And even then, I still might not.

[L-A]

(not saying this is you Kyz) but why full loot an uncaballed melee. why even full loot a caballed melee if you see he has no support. it's gay. take his Sword of Instant Monster Destruction and his Armor of Awesome Progs if you must' date=' but full looting is total anus. actually i wouldnt feel bad if it happened to Kyz, but to people who play here in general. if their melee has no awesome support network, why full loot them? try to be vigilant about things folks. you aren't the l33t 16 year old anymore, jesus some of you even have kids now.[/quote']

The easiest answer (aside from making a point of doing it to trash talkers, gangers and the ilk) is that usually I have multiple people looking for me. Once someone is dead, I don't want the risk of them popping up when I'm at big nasty/pretty hurt in 10min time after another PK and popping me. When I kill someone, providing they aren't fast enough back to their corpse, I always full loot or at least take enough to make it extremely hard for them to come looking again. For melee's that means gold, sacks, weapons and armor. For spell casters ANY hp eq goes along with shields. If they can't fight you adequately most will leave you alone, those who won't can be easily killed again and everything sac'd.

Another reason - espeically when you fight players who don't have lots of good eq - is to think about what would they have taken from you? If you're dressed in full faction/discord/deso sets that most players haven't seen, they will take most if not all of it. If they die to you, they should be prepared to accept the same - even if all you are taking is mithril. You're only leaving them in the same situation that they would have left you in.

L-A

[KRins]

So...when you're completely decked...you full loot the other people because if they beat you, they would have done the same? I see nothing wrong with that... *Strikes up the sarcasm 150 piece brass band* Either they are foolish (which in my mind means it doesn't matter what they are wearing), they are new (which in my mind means it will be apparent by their choices in the fight, and probably deserve some mercy), or they are doing their cabal duty (which I guess technically would be a grounds for full loot and the only reason I'd even consider full looting although I usually just burn cabal only eq and take a maximum of 3 items)

[Nekky]

If the reason people say full looting is lame is because it's setting the person a massive task, both in time and effort, to get the gear back again - then burning cabal equipment is probably going to inconvenience the person much more than a trip to Desolation even would.

That stuff is not cheap, a lot of it costs upwards of 1500-2000cps. Waiting around for those CPs to build up again is going to take you a far longer time than traipsing through Gear, Winter, and Desolation combined.

[L-A]

So...when you're completely decked...you full loot the other people because if they beat you' date=' they would have done the same? I see nothing wrong with that... *Strikes up the sarcasm 150 piece brass band* Either they are foolish (which in my mind means it doesn't matter what they are wearing), they are new (which in my mind means it will be apparent by their choices in the fight, and probably deserve some mercy), or they are doing their cabal duty (which I guess technically would be a grounds for full loot and the only reason I'd even consider full looting although I usually just burn cabal only eq and take a maximum of 3 items)[/quote']

As much as I want to be a sarcastic pr!ck to you right now, I'm going to try to get you to understand:

How do you think I got decked in the first place? It wasn't by running the factions twice a day. No, the usual way for me to get anything is that I kill someone and take their eq. So somewhere, sometime, somehow I killed a decked person and took their stuff - while I wasn't decked.

If I killed someone who was decked, someone could do it to me. Oh wait, they tried and failed. Well, they won't be trying that again anytime soon - there goes their best stuff. YOINK. Try to trash me in half a suit (because you're mad or don't care about death) and I'll sac'd the rest then multi you until you log off. Come back when you're better prepared - and bring your A-game next time. I'm sure as hell going to bring mine.

As I said way back at the start of this thread - I expect to be full looted every time I am killed. Anything more than that is a bonus.

Full loots and cabal warfare are what defines FL as a sublime online experience, in my opinion. If you've never stood up to four enemy cabal members (even if you got killed) or taken down THE current gun PK'r of the realms then I have to say you have not lived. None of this is out of anyone's grasp.

L-A

PS - you only take cabal eq eh? Do you know how much time it can take to get that stuff? I'd trade half my rares most days to not have my cabal eq touched. Your credibility on not full looting just took a huge hit there, mate.

[Valsgarde]

Just to pitch in my two cents:

I think full looting in all but extreme circumstances is one of the symptoms (and causes) of the cancer that has afflicted FL. There is a gigantic amount of spitefulness and classlessness that permeates the pbase.

I for one haven't full looted in two years, and it was on a demon hopeful, and it was only vengeance for 3 dudes steamrolling me and full looting me. Before that I can't remember when.

It's unneccessary 19 times out of 20, is trashy, and it's the hallmark of poor player ethic.

[Montahg]

Just to pitch in my two cents:

I think full looting in all but extreme circumstances is one of the symptoms (and causes) of the cancer that has afflicted FL. There is a gigantic amount of spitefulness and classlessness that permeates the pbase.

I for one haven't full looted in two years, and it was on a demon hopeful, and it was only vengeance for 3 dudes steamrolling me and full looting me. Before that I can't remember when.

It's unneccessary 19 times out of 20, is trashy, and it's the hallmark of poor player ethic.

Poor player ethic? Tell me why a drow, or any race/RP being evil incarnated would leave you with ANYTHING. To expect me or anyone to leave you ANY equipment is absolutely absurd. You fight anyone, to the death, and die. Their bonus is that they get to pick and choose from your equipment. Don't like it? Sorry, guess FL isn't for you. If my character is the most evil person on the planet, you can damn well rest assured I ain't leaving you a single piece of equipment. Grow up, get used to it. If you want to get involved with PK, you better expect the possibility of getting full-looted. I think it's absurd to say it's poor ethic to get full looted. If you don't want a full loot, then just stay away from pk. It'd be poor ethic for a chaotic evil character to NOT full loot you.