Tiernan

[Evangelion]

/---------------\/----------------------------------------------\

| Tiernan || the Holy Knight |

\---------------/\----------------------------------------------/

| Str: 21(21)^6 || Level: 50 Sex: M Age : 59(105h) |

| Int: 18(20) || Class: paladin Ethos: chaotic |

| Wis: 18(18) || Race : human Align: good |

| Dex: 20(20)^2 || Hp : 816/836 Exp : 34916/512684 |

| Con: 18(19) || Mana : 101/851 |

\ Lck: [||||--] \/ Move : 439/439 +Hit: 25 +Dam: 27 /

/---------------/\------------------/\--------------------------\

| ARMOR || SAVES || Deity : The One God |

| Slash : -160 || Spell : -3 || Faith : Church |

| Pierce: -159 || Afflictive : -51 || Weight: 351/425 |

| Blunt : -167 || Maledictive: -13 || Items : 30/37 |

| Magic : -138 || Mental : -13 || Prac : 25 Train: 0 |

| || || Gold : 52k |

\---------------\/------------------\/--------------------------/

/ Condition: You are in the prime of your health. \

\---------------------------------------------------------------/

Don't have a mastery list, but something like 23 skills mastered.

Props to Maggy, Kerry, Davvy, Kari, Tyridael, Triathix (huge props, we had some fun fights), Mephizex, Kongol (also huge props for some fun fights and fun RP), and anyone else I'm forgetting.

It was fun, my first paladin, probably won't be my last - I'm just done with the character side of it. My crusader app was rejected, and sixty hours later when I had't gotten a Knight spot and considered reapplying, I asked why my application was denied in the first place, and got an answer that was, frankly, discourteous and factually inaccurate.

Anyway, I'm really starting to like humans. People were saying in that log of me versus that ogre zerk that he should try to wear me down manawise. Well, they were wrong, because I had about 800 base mana. Unfortunately, everytime I got a sweet EQ setup going, something went wrong.

Anyway, sorry to Redhwan and Aniensis for the times I caught you at your pits. I swear I wasn't pit-lurking, I just saw you recall, and went in and charged.

The people I'm not sorry to include anyone who I ever fought who took it upon themselves to make stupid remarks, especially if those remarks were OOC. It is not appreciated, and it does not contribute anything to this game, so for ****'s sake, stop it. Grow a pair and harden up, princess.

[Anume]

|

It was fun, my first paladin, probably won't be my last - I'm just done with the character side of it. My crusader app was rejected, and sixty hours later when I had't gotten a Knight spot and considered reapplying, I asked why my application was denied in the first place, and got an answer that was, frankly, discourteous and factually inaccurate.

Dear Evangelion, if more than 3 people tell me the exact same thing, one of them being another IMM who watched it AND I have watched you doing something myself, I tend to believe it. If you think it inaccurate you should perhaps start logging your own sessions more. As to being courteous, if you don't want to hear the reason, don't ask. I could have just told you some excuse but decided to tell you the exact reason instead so you could perhaps CHANGE something.

Food of tought: People recalling from cabal wf tend to be hurt. People fighting someone else already when you charge them usually fight someone else already... doh.

Apart from that, nobody said you were not going to get Knight, cabal requirements and qclass/race requirements are not the same.

Strong character.

Good luck on your next.

Anume.

[Evangelion]

Thank you for your input. (I mean this facetiousness-free)

Also, I forgot to mention Brendyn. Keep on truckin', bro.

[mya]

Impressive mana.

My beef with Human paladins is the lower mana regen. It can a real pain.

[Mudder]

I liked Tiernan a lot. Had some good times. Is he deleted? Bring him back dude.

105 hours is not a lot to be waiting for a cabal spot. I've waited much longer... Though i'm shocked it was only 105 hours total. Did you get to lvl 50 in 20 hours?!

[Kyzarius]

My interactions with you were...less than fun...I wont go into detail, just know I am suprised that somone who I would consider a long time player here carried such a chip on his shoulder.

great pkill, just work on being courteous to your fellow Fl'er!

[Evangelion]

I liked Tiernan a lot. Had some good times. Is he deleted? Bring him back dude.

105 hours is not a lot to be waiting for a cabal spot. I've waited much longer... Though i'm shocked it was only 105 hours total. Did you get to lvl 50 in 20 hours?!

It was a little closer to 30, but yeah, I train and pinn fast.

Re Kyzarius: Feel free to PM me, because I have no idea what specific instance you're talking about.

[Kyzarius]

The people I'm not sorry to include anyone who I ever fought who took it upon themselves to make stupid remarks, especially if those remarks were OOC. It is not appreciated, and it does not contribute anything to this game, so for ****'s sake, stop it. Grow a pair and harden up, princess.

This right here.

I didnt go ooc on my character, however, I can easily understand how others did from my experiences with your character.

People work hard here for the most part, and you might be doing well with a particular class/race. I know with necros and shamans for example, I tend to do very well pkill wise. If you want to contribute to the game, being strong in PK comes with a responsibility to the general mud.

Just because you CAN strip people, destroy their armor, set them back..then rub it in their face, doesnt mean you should. This...in the end...just falls into a general category of griefing. Something I feel, and I am sure others agree, takes away from the general experience of the mud and most likely drives away more good characters than doing anything else.

This concept of...harden up princess...is just a negative influence on the mud, it really does make things unfun for anyone on the reciving end. That empty feeling of loss as someone reams you in pk, or even just barely beats you, is maginified 1000x when they are what I call "sore winners." It really does make you wonder if you should even bother anymore.

Defeat your ENEMY, dont defeat your enemies PLAYER.

I say this with all due respect Eva. I have played with you I am sure 1000's of time and been your ally and your foe many many times over the past several years that I know of.

My advice, if I could be so bold as to give it, is to respect your foes...because I know many times where you have been given the courtesy you should of imho given those you slew with this rather well played paladin.

Personal restraint on the side of the Veteran players here will, in the end, be what grows the Pbase back to its former "glory", not votes.

I hope you take this with the grain of sugar it is intended to be written with.

[KRins]

Tierry...you were my fearless leader on suicide missions. It won't be the same when I do make it make (running game takes up a lot of time...). Good luck on your next. Kerry is most likely doomed with you to lead him on reequip runs to the high level areas...

[Evangelion]

Unfortunately, I don't share your ideals.

Anyone that I looted on Tiernan was either A) Someone who pissed me off on a personal (character) level, or Someone who killed one of my character's friends, and was a vengeance mission.

And frankly, full looting is somewhat of a habit anyway, because it's what I (quite literally, as I've been here for eight of my nineteen years) grew up with. All of the then-veterans who I learned to PK from did it to me, and I honestly feel it's why I play the way I do today. Lately there's been a mentality of coddling that I simply don't agree with, and while I will support the decisions of this IMM staff, I may not necessarily pursue what I deem to be unnecessary. Let me break it down to you like I see it.

Not full looting shows people:

1) That no one is ever going to full loot them - and if they do, it's something to get mad about.

2) That they shouldn't full loot other people, perpetuating the cycle.

Full looting shows people:

1) How to re-equip.

2) Why they shouldn't unghost and try and come back to "finish you off"

3) That they should full loot other people, perpetuating the cycle.

I personally believe the second cycle, while somewhat more harsh and possibly even hard-assed, will be more beneficial in providing a set of skilled veterans when the current ones leave, and we're left with newly joined players. Someday, Twinblades and Krins and others like them will BE the veterans, and I don't think that I would want to come back to them in a world of flowery fantasy. When I leave (like I did this past semester), and come back, I want to come back to a world that's going to kick me in the face, rip off both of my arms, and hit me with them.

So I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with you. While there were episodes where I could have shown more tact or even class/courtesy, I don't believe that there was anything major that I did wrong with Tiernan. Merely bad circumstances.

[Kyzarius]

well , we will agree to disagre then, for I dont see how by not showing class/courtesy does anything but ruin the game for people.

[Twinblades713]

I was actually referred to! I must really be becoming part of the family!

I'm in between you guys. I almost ALWAYS go by circumstance. For the most part it's in my character, and that's what I love about FL. You don't need a "code" because each of your characters get to develop theirs. Everyone is a tiny ooc when you decide to what extent of looting you can perform and it's a given that your character will know that his opponent will come back, and base how much to loot off of that. I don't think there should be "player" guidelines. Honestly, I think it takes away from your ability to form your characters opinions and ideals.

I try not to get caught in this mentality most of the time. Like... if I find a reason to kill a person that's in a cabal of another one of my characters, will I worry about weakening "my" cabal? No. Damn straight I'm going to do it. If an imm watched my actions for a day if I logged on with three different chars, and had a chance to see my looting preferences, if you will, I don't think they would have a very defined idea of what I do.

On a final note, I never got to fight or talk to Tiernan, but I saw him fight a few times. Very strong char.

[myrek]

Just because you CAN strip people, destroy their armor, set them back..then rub it in their face, doesnt mean you should. This...in the end...just falls into a general category of griefing. Something I feel, and I am sure others agree, takes away from the general experience of the mud and most likely drives away more good characters than doing anything else.

This concept of...harden up princess...is just a negative influence on the mud, it really does make things unfun for anyone on the reciving end. That empty feeling of loss as someone reams you in pk, or even just barely beats you, is maginified 1000x when they are what I call "sore winners." It really does make you wonder if you should even bother anymore.

IMLTHO, you are abso-smurfly-wrong (99%).

I think that "harden up princess" is the answer. The whole "meanie! you full looted me!" posts are one of the reasons I have trouble getting back into FL.

I give you that taunting those you've defeated is pretty childish. But it is the rest of the "toughen up" mentality built this game. Goals were hard to get. You earned them and felt great reward when you completed them. Something given freely has no value. I remember just being impressed that you got to 50...

I guess I'm old.

[Mudder]

Myrek, while the days of old were intense. They were NOT a suitable learning enviroment. I remember your Avatar Llyros mercilessly hunting my lvl 45 Drow Shaman. I couldn't even GET to 50.

You multi-killed me at LEAST 6 times in a night. 6! Though I will say this... You did not full loot me. You may have sacrificed my weapon, but the rest you left.

It took me forever to learn to Pk, to not be pissed when I died, to not delete. This mud used to be extremely frustrating in the past. Those "glory" days were nothing but a bunch of people multi killing newbs. Don't get me wrong, I have fond memories too. But the level of class has definitely risen since then, lets not try to go back to what it used to be.

[myrek]

re: mudder

It's amazing how I made you log on and then I would kill you! Oh wait! You were the one in control if you were logged on or off. I don't have pity (at 50) for people who don't log off. If I'm getting abused like a rental car, I log off. Besides... elf avatar and a drow shaman... what's supposed to happen?

Sorry to sound so cold. But you act like it didn't happen to us.

Maybe I'm a freak. Getting killed made me want to be on the other side of the asskickery. Losing made me work harder. I didn't tell them to quit doing it. I encouraged it. I attacked those who beat me. I died. I attacked them again. I studied them until I knew what they were doing and then I did it to them.

[L-A]

Unfortunately, I don't share your ideals.

Anyone that I looted on Tiernan was either A) Someone who pissed me off on a personal (character) level, or Someone who killed one of my character's friends, and was a vengeance mission.

I'd like to think that you full looted me because barely survived the experience and not that I got slotted into category A because I was a general pain and wouldn't run back to the area you named to fight in.

And frankly, full looting is somewhat of a habit anyway, because it's what I (quite literally, as I've been here for eight of my nineteen years) grew up with. All of the then-veterans who I learned to PK from did it to me, and I honestly feel it's why I play the way I do today. Lately there's been a mentality of coddling that I simply don't agree with, and while I will support the decisions of this IMM staff, I may not necessarily pursue what I deem to be unnecessary. Let me break it down to you like I see it.

Not full looting shows people:

1) That no one is ever going to full loot them - and if they do, it's something to get mad about.

2) That they shouldn't full loot other people, perpetuating the cycle.

Full looting shows people:

1) How to re-equip.

2) Why they shouldn't unghost and try and come back to "finish you off"

3) That they should full loot other people, perpetuating the cycle.

+1. When I copped that full loot (and this wasn't some take a few things, I came back to literally nothing) I didn' think 'F***ing B@stard!!!!' because you took my stuff. (I may have cussed like a sailor because I died, bu that is something else entirely.... )

I didn't run to the forum to flame post against your character.

I didn't get on my IM programs and rant and rave how you were a tool.

I headed off to the nearest re'equip point near me and started out fresh. Weapons, armor, consumables. Then started the upgrade to rares.

No cussing in game. Not one word of abuse to the character or player. I just got on with getting on.

You can all tell me this isn't the right thing to do - and you would be wrong.

You can say it doesn't have to be this way and world would be a better place if I didn't get full looted - and you would be wrong.

Or you could try to understand that full loots are part of the game. Class, or lack there of, has NOTHING to do with a full loot. Class is whether or not you hunt down a newbie cabal member, or man-up and face off that hard@$$ cabal leader. THAT is class - and most players who complain about full loots are the first in line go looking for 'soft' PK targets when there is a nice, tough, mean caballed bastard lurking that they have every reason to PK except they are not capable.

L-A

[corpsestomp]

(I may have cussed like a sailor because I died' date=' bu that is something else entirely.... ) [/quote']

I do that...I rant and rave to anyone around me when I die...then I log off and find something else to do.

In any case, I agree with Evangelion, L-A, and Myrek. On all counts. I go back to my corpse, after I die, and if there's stuff, that's great, if not, well, I guess I'll log on tomorrow and re-equip. I think full-looting is lame, because I hate re-equipping, but I'm not gonna call people names because they do it. With most of my characters, I get rid of all their rares, and take gold and all bags. I figure it will set them back far enough that I don't have to worry about them(unless they're stupid), and I'll be able to do what I want for a little while.

[Evangelion]

re: mudder

It's amazing how I made you log on and then I would kill you! Oh wait! You were the one in control if you were logged on or off. I don't have pity (at 50) for people who don't log off. If I'm getting abused like a rental car, I log off. Besides... elf avatar and a drow shaman... what's supposed to happen?

Sorry to sound so cold. But you act like it didn't happen to us.

Maybe I'm a freak. Getting killed made me want to be on the other side of the asskickery. Losing made me work harder. I didn't tell them to quit doing it. I encouraged it. I attacked those who beat me. I died. I attacked them again. I studied them until I knew what they were doing and then I did it to them.

Ditto.

[L-A]

re: mudder

It's amazing how I made you log on and then I would kill you! Oh wait! You were the one in control if you were logged on or off. I don't have pity (at 50) for people who don't log off. If I'm getting abused like a rental car, I log off. Besides... elf avatar and a drow shaman... what's supposed to happen?

Sorry to sound so cold. But you act like it didn't happen to us.

Maybe I'm a freak. Getting killed made me want to be on the other side of the asskickery. Losing made me work harder. I didn't tell them to quit doing it. I encouraged it. I attacked those who beat me. I died. I attacked them again. I studied them until I knew what they were doing and then I did it to them.

+100. Its the only way anyone became any good.

L-A

[corpsestomp]

+100. Its the only way anyone because any good.

L-A

What?

[myrek]

i'm thinking "because" is supposed to be "becomes". I'm also thinking he's drunk and having someone type in what he says.

"Itss thhe only way anyone becomesthththt any good."

They sound really similar.

[Aulian]

I just want to say Kyz hit the nail on the head.

And Bali's argument is completely wrong.

There is no need to full loot really. Or if you do full loot there is no need to sac everything instead of give stuff back.

EDIT: wow reading the rest of the thread I notice we have a **** load of grief players here... And an awefully large amount of rage where it concerns looting people and also in respect to the 'glory days' of multi-killing. wow.

[Djriacen]

Yeahh, I don't even full loot and.. well.. There just isn't a need to. It's kinda retarded actually. Anyway, I hated Tiernan personally, but well played.

[English lad]

I'll full loot in cabal warfare, or someone who has killed me/one of my friends before. I tend to lighten up on full loot if things are obviously going my way, i.e. I win 3/4 pks in a row without them really getting back into a suit.

I've mudded for close to 9 years, all though not all here, and in all the best MUDs i've played with PK, full loot was the norm. I blame MMO's for the current culture. 'Griefers' wasn't even really a concept when I first started. Once you start having pay to play games, those games will always have to lower their standard to keep the people with the lowest threshold for hardwork, as they need the PB. Once that 'lowest threshold' becomes the standard that people expect, they find it very hard to go back to a harder (but imo more fulfilling overall) gameplay experience.

*****************************

Back to the thread in question - damn you Bali, really enjoyed our trips and it is solely down to you that I was starting to learn some of the quest areas and high end equipment runs well enough to lead in my own right.

Great character, really enjoyed all our interactions - Solid effort on both RP and PK. You stayed IC, and didn't seem to let OOC feelings change how you acted IC, which IMO is become far to rare, so its not a suprise you pissed people off, if they were people who can't manage that OOC/IC boundary themselves.

Player of Daviaus. (Davvy)

[Nekky]

I don't usually full loot, even in cabal situations just because I don't like to. But this doesn't mean I'm against full looting per se. I just don't like some of the reasons people cite for full looting these days such as:

1) It will teach them how to re-gear.

2) Because I don't want them coming back at me with their gear.

The main reason I dislike these justifications is that it's using OOC knowledge of game mechanics (i.e. People will be angry, devastated, unable to fight) if they have no gear to justify an IC action, whereas to me surely the real victory is killing the person. People say that a drow not full looting an elf is OOC, but I consider it just as OOC if that drow loots an elf to 'teach them the value of re-equipping'.

Before I get flamed - I AM IN NO WAY, SHAPE OR FORM SAYING THAT EVERY INSTANCE OF FULL LOOTING IS OOC, OR EVEN A BAD THING

But I do feel that if you really don't need the gear, or someone you know really doesn't need the gear, then why bother being a jerk to someone for these reasons?

It's getting to the stage where people aren't out for the kill anymore, they're out for the loot, because OOC they know that's what really demolishes a player now days. Numerous times in game, people have gotten positively snippy at me for having life-insurance, because they didn't get the chance to full loot.

"Pathetic, hiding behind life-insurance" (Is this statement even IC?)

"Maybe we'll fight more when you have the nerve to not insure your belongings" (IC, OOC? You decide.)

These are adaptations of actual comments made to me in game by pinnacled, and sometimes caballed characters. None of them were Tiernan, in case anyone thinks I'm taking a pot-shot.

The reason I don't often loot is because I'm far happier getting the kill than I am flogging someone's wares. Sure, I'll do it in certain situations that I feel warrant it, but it's generally an exception rather than a norm.

Are we playing to loot, or get the kill? Would it be more satisfying chasing a player down and using your wits and skill to take them out, or just looting their corpse if you found it and had nothing to do with the PK?