Monks again

Maybe I'm alone' date=' but I found this statement incredibly confusing.[/quote']

I am pretty sure he means that all a monk needs to get pounded is an enemy they weren't expecting intervening in the fight.

I am pretty sure he means that all a monk needs to get pounded is an enemy they weren't expecting intervening in the fight.

That's what I thought he meant. Of course, this could be said for a lot of classes. I feel like monks should have a skill to instantly change empowerment and reset stances, and make it only usable every 150 hours or so.

I like that idea, actually.

I think that would just get rid of the main "negative" to playing a monk. Monks in FL: no (effective) weapon use, no shields, you have to choose carefully when to use heavy equipment and you have to make a fairly concrete choice to competitively fight a given class type. If you take that away, even once a week, there's no real "penalty" to make the class interesting.

Well the problem is, monks have this big drawback, but they're not super PK machines even in the best possible stance. They're just balanced if prepared, and bad if unprepared.

The way to change that is upping the positives, not getting rid of the negatives. This was done, recently enough to make changes pointless for a while, until and if the current ones are proven insufficient. And if you can't (I can't) keep out of combat with an enemy for two hours, the problem might not be with your class.

I dont believe the weakness of monks is the problem with the empowerment cooldowns.

I BELIEVE blademasters should have the SAME problem.. As they stand their a bit offish.

Anyway. One way to balance monks would be training time. The amount of time it takes to train is just stupid.. And without training they are useless against any melee.

Hrmm.

EDIT: I understand that training is an important part of the game. But if we say that the average age of a character is **400 hours **from creation to condeath and each monk weapon takes anywhere between **2-3 hours to train ** thats 12-18 hours. Thats nearly 5% of the entire characters life that they could be RP'ing, PK'ing or exploring WHICH IS THE REASON PEOPLE PLAY.

The advertising of the MUD doesnt say AABAHRAN: THE FORSAKEN LANDS - A place to train for hours on end to have any chance of high level competition.

I think extensive hours in training is a gripe I have not only with monks, but with a game in general... But as we all know it is a very much needed evil if you wish to survive.

Disclaimer: I would like to think that I have, infact, had some had some characters that have/could held their own in PK. (And this is because they were all completely trained.)

I disagree.

Monks, Blademasters, they're insanely powerful. If you want to make the game more fun... make it easier for Melee's to maintain at 50 with standard gear. Or make Melee's operate more like mages.

Monks and Blademasters, in my opinion, aren't for any player. They're for the dedicated one. I also, personally, feel that monks shouldn't be allowed in cabals (minor RP reasons), however... all I ever seen when I'm on is a bunch of blademasters and monks doing their thing. I haven't had a group (except for one) that didn't have a monk or blademaster in it since I've been back.

If monks and Blademasters could be trained in the time it takes to train a mage, why would anyone play anything but a monk or Blm? Monks can hit like a tank, have the highest hitroll in the game, insane svs, or just be a defensive monster... all with the same equipment. What if a warrior wants to do this? What about a mage?

I'm not familiar with blademasters that much, as I just don't like class (not my style of play.) But Blademasters can have a strength equal to their dex (halfling can rock the kasbah) or taking on rangers/necro's like they're nothing, or all those other things their stances allow.

You don't need mastered weapons to beat an opponent with any character. Sure, it makes defending against them easier, but I've killed plenty of attackers with just my defenses mastered and a weapon we both have... even if they weren't using it.

If you absolutely need to master everything you use to be viable in pk, then you're doing something wrong. Having weapons mastered, yeah, it helps, but why should that be as big a factor as getting the upperhand by surprise? If it comes down to who has the most things mastered, then it'd better be two warriors/blademasters/monks/same class beating the piss out of each other. Any other two classes fighting a toe to toe battle that is just spam and slug... then someone isn't thinking.

With all the tone ups to monks... why do they need more? They've been around since day one, kicking *** the whole time. It wasn't until Blademasters came out that they "needed" the bonuses. (which, by my thinking means Blm's are a little over powered...but, I can't prove it )

Either way... I think a lot of this has to do with Monks being people's favorite class. Not because they have the most fun with them, but because they aren't as common knowledge as a warrior or thief or battlemage. I was talking to another player a little while ago, he brought up some good points. FL is no longer mysterious and dark. It's bright and managable. Why? Most of us have been here for eight years... the game is now no longer theory, it's fact. Hard fact.

We know what do to maximize bash, to hinder black jack, to master teleport, to do any number of things. Every skill is basic knowledge to the player base now... and even most cabal skills. However, monks and blademasters... there is something there that not many people have toyed with. And now that everyone is playing them since they've never done it before, they see what they think are weaknesses. Sure, you may not be able to take out that Nexus Ogre Ranger in three rounds like he can you, maybe that isn't the weakness of the class... instead the player?

Oh, I can't find the post right now... but Celerity has said she'd rarely trains... and she is one of the biggest threats at 50 I've ever had the pleasure of getting killed by.

a-g

ps: Not trying to be an *** here. I know everyone here are capable players. But try and look at it at other angles, through other lenses.

Pfft, Celerity trained EVERY skill/spell on her invoker Sachi. boggles

Well, as far as training time goes, I found it much harder with my blm than any of my monks. I'm sure I might not have been doing everything in the best way, but it's definitely comparable, and in my opinion the blademaster skills you need to train are more important than mastering weapons on a monk. There's no real reason why martial arts a couldn't give you an extra attack with a weapon, cutting training time nearly in half, but hey..there are plenty of classes you barely need to train with at all, and monks are actually one of the easier classes to train if you choose not to master your weapons.

ps: Not trying to be an *** here. I know everyone here are capable players. But try and look at it at other angles, through other lenses.

I dont want to be funny, but we have new player arriving all the time.

Its always been my opinion that blademasters have been the most over powered class in this game since their creation. But im not going to go into why.

Monks on the other hand, are not in my opinion, as strong.

Oh, I can't find the post right now... but Celerity has said she'd rarely trains... and she is one of the biggest threats at 50 I've ever had the pleasure of getting killed by.

This is completely true, but I can tell you now, a fully trained skilled player versus any of cel's untrained characters will not do as well as you think. Its that simple - training makes the difference.

The fact that you and others get killed by cel when she hasnt trained up may be because she has more PK experience, or she got lucky.

You know, while it is true that Celerity didn't train on any of her characters in the distant past, I think she started to. I know for a fact she trained some vital things like anatomies, assassinate, etc. And even if she didn't, the amount of time she played and the amount of PK she did meant her skills went up very quickly at 50.

Training is a choice. Practically the only thing that won't ever go up on its own is monk weapons. But everything else you can master through PK and gear runs, or do a little at a time when there's nothing going on. I'm an obsessive trainer but I can never find sparring partners, so most of my anatomies are pretty sad when I hit 50. Within a week or two they're all mastered. No big deal.

I dont want to be funny' date=' but we have new player arriving all the time.[/quote']

Heh, well, I was speaking of people discussing this thread.

Its always been my opinion that blademasters have been the most over powered class in this game since their creation. But im not going to go into why.

Monks on the other hand, are not in my opinion, as strong.

Glad I'm not the only one that feels that way about blademasters, but where are monks lacking somewhere grievous to their ability to perform where say, a thief or warrior isn't? (Yes, I realize different skills/abilities/play styles, but humour me here)

A thief set up to kill a feral (fiery weapons) get's jumped by a Fire Giant... he's gotta run or get spanked. This isn't any different than a monk getting attacked by someone he didn't plan on.

This is completely true, but I can tell you now, a fully trained skilled player versus any of cel's untrained characters will not do as well as you think. Its that simple - training makes the difference.

The fact that you and others get killed by cel when she hasnt trained up may be because she has more PK experience, or she got lucky.

Well, I may not agree that she got lucky, but as for PK experience you've got me agreeing 100%, I suck(ed) at PK. I admit it. I'm getting better by leaps and bounds, however.

I've read through the thread, and I still don't see where monks get the shaft anywhere... they're monsters in capable hands just like any other class. (specially if you take out Blademasters as a comparison as we both feel they are overpowered). Sure, weapons are hard to train... maybe that's the point? Dual Parry takes longer to train on a Bard than any other class... it's this way for a reason. And Dual Parry is a vital combat skill for the Bard.

a-g