Mali Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 How about the skull next to the "standard" players, becuase thats who I want to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 How about the skull next to the "standard" players' date=' becuase thats who I want to kill.[/quote'] Real mature. I would hope our better players wouldn't target the newbies, but I doubt we're past that yet. I vote for no revealing who plays Hardcore or Softcore characters. You'll find out when you try to loot them. Otherwise Mali's DK will be looting for cheap and easy fodder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-guitarist Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Cabal members are not meant to be average. They were always meant to be a slight step above, since their responsibilities dictated much of their existence. I not saying "No Newbie! You cannot join a Cabal!" I am saying "Yes! You can join a Cabal, and here's how it works. You will no longer be protected. You will be exposed to the utter harshness of cabal life. It will be hard. It will be tough. The perks will be less than you expected skill-wise, but the RP is where you will be fully rewarded. The immense struggles and battles will be more fulfilling. Still wanna sign up?" I would've agreed with this... but I have never experienced non-cabaled people being "protected" against cabaled people. I've actually never seen a cabaled player avoid an easy kill even if someone with more of a "target" was on. Basically, I've only seen cabals be used to flesh out holes in other classes. Everyone knows what abilities the cabals have. And they plan accordingly when rolling/creating a character. Is this bad? Nope, just the way the game is played. However, if we wanted to make it slightly more interesting.... reduce the "power" behind the abilities. Change them to be more RP orientated, and then we will see TRUE skill come out of the players, instead of power combos of race/class/cabal/religion. Sure, make the skills useful, but just not as fantastic, because honestly... I don't care if you were an IMM or not, you know as well as I do that no one avoids the easy kill because they don't have the [opposing cabal flag] before their name. Well, 5% of the player base does, and that's because they couldn't kill them in the first place a-g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The End Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Seeing as how I am no longer a player, I don't know if my opinion will even be wanted. Thus, I leave it up to Raar. You want me to post, let me know. Otherwise I won't waste my time. But you ARE missing out on some of the BIGGEST issues in player retention, and they are not pk oriented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtobesomebody Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 a-g: Was meant in the context of the change between softcore and hardcore. Protected from multi-kill, protected from full-looting, that kind of protection. Nothing more. Also, I don't know where the 'nobody avoids the easy kill' comment came from, as I said or alluded no such thing. Maybe explain a little? Oh, and I am all for the cabal skills to be more RP-oriented, with minimal PK enhancements. All for it. I have posted many times, and just because I was a high level IMM does not make my opinion carry more weight. Don't think I ever inferred that. If I came off that way, whoops. I just feel very passionate about the game that I helped shape and build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I will address most of this post later; I've been at the airport (delayed flight) and I think my flight just came in. One quick comment; yes' date=' I would like to see the HC/SC flags displayed, sort of like how bountied players are currently displayed. Perhaps a nice skull-like symbol next to the HC players?[/quote'] To follow up as promised (I just got off the plane), I do not believe what you brought up will be an issue. To wit, first of all, if good players want to make 'standard' characters, that's fine by me, because as I said, this is not intended fully as a 'newbie' tier, but as an 'alternate' tier. If they can accept the limited advancement and achievements, then they can and should feel free to go 'standard' with a character. I think your concerns about kill/death/counter-kill are unfounded for two reasons. One, they are already currently possible; what you are arguing is that it may be easier. Although that is arguably true, even in the event that a counter-kill succeeds, all that is lost is 2 pieces of rares; quite possibly, the same two pieces that the original player lost in the first place. Currently, a counter-kill would result in the full loot of the second character. So although you may feel that the ease of a counter-kill has gone up, the rewards have also drastically gone down. There's some other aspects to this as well, but I won't immediately delve into it. Seeing as how I am no longer a player, I don't know if my opinion will even be wanted. Thus, I leave it up to Raar. You want me to post, let me know. Otherwise I won't waste my time. But you ARE missing out on some of the BIGGEST issues in player retention, and they are not pk oriented. I am sure many people have many opinions regarding player retention and the lack thereof. This is not the thread for them. Please feel free to send me a PM with your thoughts, Dobson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 a-g: Was meant in the context of the change between softcore and hardcore. Protected from multi-kill' date=' protected from full-looting, that kind of protection. Nothing more. Also, I don't know where the 'nobody avoids the easy kill' comment came from, as I said or alluded no such thing. Maybe explain a little? Oh, and I am all for the cabal skills to be more RP-oriented, with minimal PK enhancements. All for it.[/quote'] I would actually be interested in something along these lines as well (increasing RP-orientation of cabals and their skills)...we'll see. That's something for future consideration though, and would represent a change which is as great, if not greater, than this one. I have posted many times, and just because I was a high level IMM does not make my opinion carry more weight. Don't think I ever inferred that. If I came off that way, whoops. I just feel very passionate about the game that I helped shape and build. I understand your passion, as I share it, and I take your posts with that understanding in mine. For that matter, I haven't inferred the attitude that your opinion 'should carry more weight' from your posts myself. Cabal members are not meant to be average. They were always meant to be a slight step above, since their responsibilities dictated much of their existence. I not saying "No Newbie! You cannot join a Cabal!" I am saying "Yes! You can join a Cabal, and here's how it works. You will no longer be protected. You will be exposed to the utter harshness of cabal life. It will be hard. It will be tough. The perks will be less than you expected skill-wise, but the RP is where you will be fully rewarded. The immense struggles and battles will be more fulfilling. Still wanna sign up?" I agree. Cabal members are indeed meant to be a step above. And they will continue to be. Players who do not meet the necessary standards of RP still will not get in. And members of the 'standard' tier will also have the same responsibilities. However, some of the harshness of the cabal life will be ameliorated, in exchange for not being able to advance past T (or, more likely, V). Multikills will become possible; multi-looting (from a multi-kill), less so. Simply put, I do not like 'all or nothing' types of approaches; ie, "either you can be caballed, or you can be standard". I believe a more balanced approach is a more successful one, and in this case, offering 'standard' characters the ability to join cabals in exchange for limitations on how far they can proceed as well as the decreasing of their protections (as far as multikills go), in addition to the expected standards of play that all cabal members are expected to be held to. In essence, a quid pro quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchaeius Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Hm. Both sides of this argument intrigue me. This proposal is by no means perfect yet. This is why I approved that it be brought to stand the scrutiny of the playerbase before making my final decision. Before I start, I want to make it clear that when Raargant approached me with this idea, I gave it the greenlight for discussion specifically because while we may at times have different ideas on what will make FL grow – we do share the desire to bring about change to that end. So, while you may disagree with it, that is fine, I do not fully agree with the proposal yet myself, but understand that what we seek are ways to improve the system. Therefore, your posts must be kept constructive with that in mind. You believe you see a facet of this system that opens the way to abuse? By all means share that concern, even better is if you offer a possible solution to that concern. Now on to my thoughts. I must say, there is a clear and definite line between looting someone to make them better and looting them to be a prick. Killing someone (read: new player / obvious newbie) and full looting them specifically because you are that much better than them only soothes your ego and does not improve the player; This is especially true when it is compounded by a full loot. As this change is looking to be made to benefit newer players, while offering no incentive to veteran players, I hope those that oppose the idea are opposed to the follow-through and not the goal itself. That is, I hope you oppose this proposal instead of being opposed to aiding newer players adjust to this game. A newer player will almost never defeat an experienced player simply because of equipment. The only reason to full loot newer players, outside of being naked yourself, is to make that player feel the sting of defeat - in other words it is a direct attack on the player and not the character. While this is a sting that we no doubt once felt when we were starting out, the times were different. If we are brutally honest with ourselves, we will realize that a majority of the older players learned this game under the tutelage of or along the side of someone else. Whether that someone else was Old Man, Virigoth, or even perhaps just a friend with whom you shared strategies. I am willing to bet the majority of us learned the game with others. Furthermore, when most of the older players were learning the game, it was a time when the majority of the playerbase itself was learning the game. We cannot, therefore, place the same style of learning upon their shoulders within a much more hostile and knowledgeable environment. The gap between veteran and newbie has grown these past 7 years, and something must be done to address that. I do not believe in spoon-feeding. I also do not believe in difficulty for difficulty's sake. We say that people must learn to help themselves, but we have to recognize that some people must be taught to help themselves. If everyone was able to self-help, there would be no money to be made in self-help books that teach people how to self-help. If a newer player is willing to do that much, much like I have seen with Shinth - who incidentally I believe has been an excellent addition to our playerbase, and a model of the type of newer players I am glad we have acquired – then I think I speak for the entire staff when I say that I am willing to go the distance with them. I, like Virigoth before me, believe that we all have the right to learn things on our own - He stated so in the READ ME file of the public version of the code. Yet also like him, I understand, and so should we all, that there is also a duty to teach and aid the improvement of others. Furthermore, we should also strive to bring new players to this game and work on retaining them as they go through their progression. Long ago, someone - I believe it may have been Sirant or perhaps Chueh in his pre-asshat days, but memory is such a fickle thing - posted the progression of a player. Learning how to run and survive, learning how and where to gain equipment, learning how to re-equip after losing, learning PK strategies, learning how to hold your own in fights, learning how to win fights, learning how to chase. These are all a progression that a newer player must go through to become better PKers. Due to the growth of knowledge of the playerbase, combined with the code becoming available to the public, the overall skill the playerbase has increased exponentially. To believe that we had it harder when we first joined this game is a lie my friends. While we no doubt had it tough, everyone experienced this toughness together. With the current abundance of knowledge, the newer player faces the brunt of a group of talented players with a nihilistic outlook on all competition. FL is harsh, but it must also be inviting! A place where old school and new school can thrive. While cabals are not for everyone, they are also an excellent place for a newer player to learn the ropes. Most of the older players were allowed into cabals early in the history of FL before they were ever knowledgeable enough. To get better at PK, one must fight. Fighting naked teaches a newer player nothing. By decreasing the time spent re-equipping for newer players, they spend more time in battles, and theoretically learn faster. Now I do not believe that every Tom, Dick, and Jane should be given a free pass to join a cabal, BUT if they show the dedication, RP, and willingness to learn, I see no reason why they cannot earn the privilege - up to Veteran of course. They will die. They will lose their equipment. It will still be a harsh environment for them. The difference is that it will be tolerable. I apologize for the length of my post, and it may contain grammatical errors due to the fact that I am actually heading to bed this moment. I normally like to keep my thoughts short and concise, but I did not notice I had written this much until it was too late. To sum it all up, we have a diverse range of beliefs and opinions – but hopefully we all share some inkling of a passion and desire to see this MUD grow. So while we may disagree on what method will be most efficacious, we need to agree that change is needed not for the sake of change, but for improvement. While the old adage “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” certainly has its merits, Ford was once quoted as saying “If I’d ask my customers what they wanted, they’d have said a faster horse”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaede Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 For my two cents, off the top of my head (I'll consider this more in depth when I have time), I think much of the abuse factor could be mitigated by instituting a forced move up to hardcore when certain PK statistics are realized (either a string of pks or a moving average ratio of pks to deaths). This way, the system is truly for new players or learners, and not for any other motivation (although I think I read somewhere that you wanted to open it up to good players too...which I'm not sure I see why yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 since the whole issue seems to revolve around equipment and looting, wouldn't it make more sense to address equipment rebalancing than making a major change to the game? a suit of non rares is practically worthless against a character in a 'god' suit, especially if you're playing a melee character. closing the gap between rares and non rares, which has been discussed before, would do more to address full loot issues than this proposed change. with the locker system as it is, and a rebalance of equipment, there'd be no reason why a full looted character couldn't run to his locker, throw on his non rare equipment, and be back in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I don't think any automated move to hardcore should be coded. Why penalize someone because they started being good? If Imms saw a Vet player abusing the Softcore status they could easily bump them up to Hardcore. I think it should be left to Imm discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Since no one else has said it, I guess the duty falls to me. Can't we just increase the number of spots available in HERALD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-A Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Since no one else has said it, I guess the duty falls to me. Can't we just increase the number of spots available in HERALD? I think that comment at least should get a motion raised to remove your <@$$hat> flag :p L-A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 As an alternative to this idea... what do you guys think to maybe just letting adventurers get to 50, make them PK-able, but prevent all looting so they can keep their nonrares/consumables/gold? If, as has been alluded to, the eq imbalance is in the process of being rectified so that nonrare eq is more viable, this would allow newbs to enter the 50 arena with a safety blanket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 That actually sounds like a solid idea. Make everyone start as Standard, and once a certain quota is met... or ratio, then the person is bumped up to hardcore. New players, unless very lucky, many times, which is nigh impossible in this kind of game, will stay newer. And this is the perfect gauge to tell when they are experienced enough to face the pack. I may have restated what Khaede said, but this immediately sounded very effective. We all know vets won't take long to start racking up their pk numbers, so they would convert to hardcore relatively quickly. It would also give everyone a curve with every class. I'm pretty good with Shamans, but a warrior? I would be rubbed into paste fairly quickly. So if I made a warrior, I would stay standard until my actions (pk stats) have proven that I'm worthy of hardcore status and by then I should be able to hold my own anyway, since it's been shown. EDIT: Damn, 5 posts later.... Khaede's is the idea I'm referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I'm sorry, but I absolutely do not agree with automatic hardcore status. As I have said before (and I think is getting lost in translation), this is an alternate tier, NOT a feeder tier or a newbie tier. If there are players who are not interested in ever being 'hardcore', then they can stay in 'standard' for their characters for as long as they want. The reason why is listed below: As I mentioned in a post some time ago, this is not meant to be an 'inferior' tier, but an 'alternate' tier in addition to being a 'newbie' tier. Let me postulate a hypothetical person, who may never be interested in multikilling and full-loots, but who otherwise enjoys this MUD. However, these two often-complained about issues are killing his or her enjoyment of this MUD, and eventually drives said person to leave. Here is my question. Under the current situation, his choices are to either 'suck it up'/'harden up', or to leave. He isn't interested in the degree of hardcore, and so he leaves. Is this beneficial to the MUD? Did he bring so little to the MUD that his leaving would not be a detriment? Is he really so unimportant that we should not address his concerns and ameliorate the issues which are ruining his fun? My answer to all of these questions is a resounding, 'no'. That type of player does bring value, richness, and depth to the MUD even if he doesn't enjoy the 'hardcore'ness of the PK aspect, and I want to create a system where both he, and more 'hardcore' players, both can by and large enjoy the game in the style which they prefer. Such a system is not credible if it totally excludes them from caballed life, which represents such a large part of the life of the average character at level 50. Please pay attention to this, as it is important. since the whole issue seems to revolve around equipment and looting, wouldn't it make more sense to address equipment rebalancing than making a major change to the game? a suit of non rares is practically worthless against a character in a 'god' suit, especially if you're playing a melee character. closing the gap between rares and non rares, which has been discussed before, would do more to address full loot issues than this proposed change. with the locker system as it is, and a rebalance of equipment, there'd be no reason why a full looted character couldn't run to his locker, throw on his non rare equipment, and be back in the game. Complaints regarding full looting and multikilling have existed since long before there were equipment balancing issues. Although equipment rebalancing is also on the upcoming agenda, it isn't alone in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Re: twinblades/Khaedes Idea... No. I want to be hardcore from the start. Call it what you want but the fact I can solo winter/blood/discord is MY advantage. If you want a PK blanket thats fine. Done PUSH one on me and stop me from equipping to the best of my ability. Re: Cabal Joining. Are you kidding me? My first pinn was in Knight. I can tell you now that that character LEAP FROGGED me into PK and my abilities. It helped me grow immensely... If we decided not to include the 'newbies' in cabals I would be very disapointed. Watcher has also had a large 'newer' cabal membership and I have always enjoyed being able to help those people progress into better pk'ers. Re: Vets taking advantage of SC It takes less then 5 rounds of combat to see if someone is newer or a vet in PK. Its simple, if you wish to take advantage of the system you have to be punished eg: moved into the hardcore bracket. I would like to think the Pbase is responsible enough to not take advantage of the system... It should be in the imms power to change the SC and HC flags as they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Query: How exactly would someone 'take advantage' of the system anyhow? I am utterly confused by these references to possible 'abuses' of being SC. Please elaborate on these abuses, while keeping in mind my above post that SC is intended to be an alternate tier, NOT just a newbie tier/feeder tier. If a veteran/good player wants to make an SC, go for it. What damage can they do? They are gimped in armor choice, they can't multikill, and they can't loot for beans either. And they also will not be able to accomplish much at all with the character, in terms of accomplishments and cabal advancements. If they are willing to make all of these sacrifices (which are more painful for veterans than for newbies) just for the sake of people not being able to loot the half-suit of rares they have, then go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I think what L-A's concern with the "abuse" was the easier counter kill where the currently unkillable comes back for the "cheap" death. I assume he's saying cheap because said character WILL get to initiate combat first. One of the fundamentals in his PK essay was based on that. BUT, having said that, it's also arguable that someone of L-A's caliber could get the **** away from said player anyways. In most cases. This could be an issue. BUT, having said that, I must also use the reminder that we each have 61 lives. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quigt Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 To me, the big idea here isn't to keep people from losing their stuff. The whole point is that players are going to finally be given a chance to actually practice PK without suffering huge losses. Any standard who gets good at PK using their limited set will only want a hardcore char later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaede Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 One of my mentors once said that the biggest mistake PhD candidates make is trying to make the scope of their dissertation too large; to 'save the world' in a single paper. Instead, it is far better to write one of narrow scope (that will get by the dissertation board and work) for someone else to then build on. This came to mind because it seems to me like there are 2 issues we are trying to kill with one stone; full loots, and newbies in PK. So why don't we have 2 solutions? I think trying to make one tier alternate and newbie simultaneously may be a mistake. Instead, why not an alternate tier (full loot and equipment restrictions as previously mentioned, 15 tick pk timer after death to prevent cheap kill), and a newbie tier (the whole bag, but when they are no longer newbies they move up to either the alternate or the hardcore tier). I think part of the resistance to this comes from the fact that while someone may think they like it in softcore (newbie) tier, they don't really know because they haven't experienced the higher tier. Even I started out being givine red dragon on my first necro and getting whacked by a berserker because I didn't know there was a quit command (I just closed my browser when I was close to dead). I do believe that the bulk of frustration comes from the full looting, and everyone should be forced (at the appropriate time on the learning curve) to leave the newbie tier and enjoy full pk or somewhat limited pk, for their own good. And Aulian, I didn't want everyone to start off in the soft tier...do you really think I'd want to be forced to do that? I like killing you too much (and I don't even know who you play ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 And Aulian' date=' I didn't want everyone to start off in the soft tier...do you really think I'd want to be forced to do that? I like killing you too much (and I don't even know who you play ).[/quote'] No.. that was just my small idea that was swiftly thrown in the trash. Ya win some ya lose alot. hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtobesomebody Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 And Aulian' date=' I didn't want everyone to start off in the soft tier...do you really think I'd want to be forced to do that? I like killing you too much (and I don't even know who you play ).[/quote'] Kill every Watcher you see. Guaranteed to be an Aulian char in there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 One of my mentors once said that the biggest mistake PhD candidates make is trying to make the scope of their dissertation too large; to 'save the world' in a single paper. Instead, it is far better to write one of narrow scope (that will get by the dissertation board and work) for someone else to then build on. This came to mind because it seems to me like there are 2 issues we are trying to kill with one stone; full loots, and newbies in PK. So why don't we have 2 solutions? I think trying to make one tier alternate and newbie simultaneously may be a mistake. Instead, why not an alternate tier (full loot and equipment restrictions as previously mentioned, 15 tick pk timer after death to prevent cheap kill), and a newbie tier (the whole bag, but when they are no longer newbies they move up to either the alternate or the hardcore tier). I think part of the resistance to this comes from the fact that while someone may think they like it in softcore (newbie) tier, they don't really know because they haven't experienced the higher tier. Even I started out being givine red dragon on my first necro and getting whacked by a berserker because I didn't know there was a quit command (I just closed my browser when I was close to dead). I do believe that the bulk of frustration comes from the full looting, and everyone should be forced (at the appropriate time on the learning curve) to leave the newbie tier and enjoy full pk or somewhat limited pk, for their own good. And Aulian, I didn't want everyone to start off in the soft tier...do you really think I'd want to be forced to do that? I like killing you too much (and I don't even know who you play ). Khaede, please review the original post. Nowhere did I mention this being 'newbie' oriented or 'co-oriented' (that came up later as a function which it could serve); in each case, I have stressed it being an 'alternate' tier. It just so happens that it is one which also may appeal to newbies. And I do think that it would be nice for people to 'move on' from the alternate tier, but I also think that it should neither be IMM mandated nor code mandated, but up to themselves. I very much dislike the idea of telling people how to play the game or how to enjoy the game, "for their own good". If they are having fun, and if they are bringing something to the MUD, then leave'm alone and let them do what they do. PS: We already have a longer-than-15 tick timer after death. It's called 'ghost status' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag08 Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Hrm. Have been thinking about this a good deal myself now. 3 tiers: 1 - Easy -For absolute newbies. Pretty much adventurers to lvl 50. No rare posession ever. Players can travel with outhers to learn the lands and id equipment, which helps that situation. Maybe a timecap on these chars though(200/300hrs?) They still can challenge others willingly to get a feel for PK. Any action(s) such as trash talking to an Intermediate/Advanced will be looked into and they will be advanced to Intermediate where they are PK'able. Maybe with a more severe limit on total lives, etc, to discourage that kind of thing. Also a regulated newbie channel all the way to lvl 50. Create an "Outfit" command that dresses this bunch basically from head to toe in simple items. No hit/dam, or saves, just some ac boosting things so they can kill mobs a "bit" easier. Also make lockers free for use to them. 2 - Intermediate - Same as the soft version previously mentioned by Raar. Rares limited to 10, 2 rares can be looted at 50, plus backpack, non rare weapons and gold. Set a PK ratio check here! Once they are positive (20 PK's?)to a certain degree they are bumped to Hard level. Can join clans but are limited there until they advance to hard level. 3 - Advanced - "Standard" play as it is now. Must be at this level for entrance into cabals. Some points : -I believe this satisfies helping absolute beginners, intermediates and still through the cabal clause, makes it rewarding for advanced players also. -If you are in a cabal I do not believe that you deserve any extra protections for PK as far as looting goes. -This will also help bring back some of the prestige of being caballed. -Also since it will take some people some time to advance past Intermediate stage, clans will become more active and conducive to rp. -Trying to satisfy a number of recent concerns, frustrations here. -Also to encourage helping new players even more, if an Imm snoops an Int/Adv say "guiding" a total newbie to some places and genuinely helping them learn about a place they might get a simple reward. 25 cps, 10k gold, etc. I think even such a small incentive might have some more skilled players more active in this sort of thing. Let's face it it is OOC at times to drop waht you are doing because some newbie just locked himself in a dangerous place and you go to get him out. But if there is a gain for that char, now that makes it more enticing as far as IG goes. What does everyone think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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