Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Samag, thank you for your thoughts. That being said, please review this earlier post with regards to autobumping and cabal'ing, and the purpose behind this. Thanks. I'm sorry' date=' but I absolutely do not agree with automatic hardcore status. As I have said before (and I think is getting lost in translation), this is an [b']alternate tier, NOT a feeder tier or a newbie tier. If there are players who are not interested in ever being 'hardcore', then they can stay in 'standard' for their characters for as long as they want. The reason why is listed below: As I mentioned in a post some time ago, this is not meant to be an 'inferior' tier, but an 'alternate' tier in addition to being a 'newbie' tier. Let me postulate a hypothetical person, who may never be interested in multikilling and full-loots, but who otherwise enjoys this MUD. However, these two often-complained about issues are killing his or her enjoyment of this MUD, and eventually drives said person to leave. Here is my question. Under the current situation, his choices are to either 'suck it up'/'harden up', or to leave. He isn't interested in the degree of hardcore, and so he leaves. Is this beneficial to the MUD? Did he bring so little to the MUD that his leaving would not be a detriment? Is he really so unimportant that we should not address his concerns and ameliorate the issues which are ruining his fun? My answer to all of these questions is a resounding, 'no'. That type of player does bring value, richness, and depth to the MUD even if he doesn't enjoy the 'hardcore'ness of the PK aspect, and I want to create a system where both he, and more 'hardcore' players, both can by and large enjoy the game in the style which they prefer. Such a system is not credible if it totally excludes them from caballed life, which represents such a large part of the life of the average character at level 50. I hope that clarifies as to why I am vociferously opposed to bumping people out of standard et. al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samag08 Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Samag' date=' thank you for your thoughts. That being said, please review this earlier post with regards to autobumping and cabal'ing, and the purpose behind this. Thanks.[/quote'] Not to argue the point with you Raar, but I did not mean once they hit 20 pks total. I mean when they hit 60/40 or 25-5. That is a pretty big margin of winning for most players. Effectively they could stay Intermediate forever if they wished. Just do not go trying to kill everyone they see. Think of it like alignment. If you are neutral and you kill random people repeatedly for no noticeable reasons, you will be outcasted to evil. It was your choice to do those deeds, and you did them successfully. I can just see some frustration on the other ends it some intermediate who is a REALLY good player sits there forever. 10 super rares can make a char pretty hard to beat a lot of the time. And if they do get killed they only can lose 2 of those items? I think that that is kind of a spike of power in that Intermediate category. I would like to see a limit of some sorts in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Not to argue the point with you Raar' date=' but I did not mean once they hit 20 pks total. I mean when they hit 60/40 or 25-5. That is a pretty big margin of winning for most players. Effectively they could stay Intermediate forever if they wished. Just do not go trying to kill everyone they see.[/quote'] Right, I understand what you are saying (and feel free to argue, btw). I already responded to a similar concern regarding good players who stay 'standard': If a veteran/good player wants to make an SC, go for it. What damage can they do? They are gimped in armor choice, they can't multikill, and they can't loot for beans either. And they also will not be able to accomplish much at all with the character, in terms of accomplishments and cabal advancements. If they are willing to make all of these sacrifices (which are more painful for veterans than for newbies) just for the sake of people not being able to loot the half-suit of rares they have, then go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I might have missed this but what happens with Rangers butchering corpses and Sliths swallowing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I might have missed this but what happens with Rangers butchering corpses and Sliths swallowing them. If I recall correctly, isn't a 'mutilated corpse' or something like that still left? The items would remain in the corpse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 For butcher or soul capture, yes... for sliths I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 For butcher or soul capture' date=' yes... for sliths I don't think so.[/quote'] I vaguely recall sliths leaving behind a 'half-digested corpse'. Unless it was removed, this should still be in the game. Any slith players want to confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 That's one hell of a fast digestive tract... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 What if you let standard characters go up to say, elder, for RP purposes, but either weaken or completely nix the extra skills? That way they can RP going through the characters life and making it up high (since some cabal imms give elder for RP alone), but they wont get the really powerful skills. Keep em cut at V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaede Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Khaede, please review the original post. Nowhere did I mention this being 'newbie' oriented or 'co-oriented' (that came up later as a function which it could serve); in each case, I have stressed it being an 'alternate' tier. It just so happens that it is one which also may appeal to newbies. And I do think that it would be nice for people to 'move on' from the alternate tier, but I also think that it should neither be IMM mandated nor code mandated, but up to themselves. I very much dislike the idea of telling people how to play the game or how to enjoy the game, "for their own good". If they are having fun, and if they are bringing something to the MUD, then leave'm alone and let them do what they do. PS: We already have a longer-than-15 tick timer after death. It's called 'ghost status' If it isnt supposed to be a newbie tier, just a less intense, you-don't-get-so-pissed-when-you-die-and-then-quit tier, why bother with all of these complications that seem to be newbie protective? If you don't want intensive pk or full loots, take alternative tier, max your rares at 8, max your looting and being looted to 2 rares, and thats it. The 15 tick timer would be to protect the person who killed you (preventing you from cheap killing them), not ghost status; important difference. You'll still get involved with cabal warfare, you might get multi killed but you aren't going to lose so much eq that you can't replace it quickly enough. I mean, you're also never going to take down an elite player in 8 (or 10) rares, but that wouldn't have happened anyway. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 What if you let standard characters go up to say' date=' elder, for RP purposes, but either weaken or completely nix the extra skills? That way they can RP going through the characters life and making it up high (since some cabal imms give elder for RP alone), but they wont get the really powerful skills. Keep em cut at V.[/quote'] No no no please NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 What if you let standard characters go up to say' date=' elder, for RP purposes, but either weaken or completely nix the extra skills? That way they can RP going through the characters life and making it up high (since some cabal imms give elder for RP alone), but they wont get the really powerful skills. Keep em cut at V.[/quote'] It isn't a question of powerful skills; it's a question of advancement and achievement. The highest positions should only be given to those who make the greatest sacrifices and brave the greatest dangers. If it isnt supposed to be a newbie tier, just a less intense, you-don't-get-so-pissed-when-you-die-and-then-quit tier, why bother with all of these complications that seem to be newbie protective? If you don't want intensive pk or full loots, take alternative tier, max your rares at 8, max your looting and being looted to 2 rares, and thats it. The 15 tick timer would be to protect the person who killed you (preventing you from cheap killing them), not ghost status; important difference. You'll still get involved with cabal warfare, you might get multi killed but you aren't going to lose so much eq that you can't replace it quickly enough. I mean, you're also never going to take down an elite player in 8 (or 10) rares, but that wouldn't have happened anyway. Am I missing something? I misunderstood your tick timer suggestions. It's an interesting one, I had a different mechanism in mind, but essentially for the same principle. The things which 'protect newbies' also tend to be things which solves some issues that piss off a lot of more casual players, new or otherwise. No no no please NO. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Herald will never have an elder again. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Herald will never have an elder again. lol. LOL. Okay, maybe a Heraldric exception.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Yes, make Herald ever more the cabal for people who can't PK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Yes' date=' make Herald ever more the cabal for people who can't PK...[/quote'] Many of them certainly have brought more to the MUD than many of the people who can. Perhaps the nerfbat really should be swung at the other cabals and have their skills turned more for RP purposes, as IUTBS and others suggested... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Many of them certainly have brought more to the MUD than many of the people who can. I was just kidding. I like Herald. Perhaps the nerfbat really should be swung at the other cabals and have their skills turned more for RP purposes, as IUTBS and others suggested... Sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Sounds good to me. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more it sounds appealing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 I think [HERALD CABAL SKILL] is one of the greatest skills in the game personally. MODERATED: Please do not reveal cabal skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted July 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Let's get back on track. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexi Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Yes' date=' make Herald ever more the cabal for people who can't PK...[/quote'] Like Syndicate is for the people who can only PK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Not when Korthian was around for sure, but yeah, back on track. (not saying that other syndicates don't have rp or anything.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 EDIT: Bah, no, will not continue thread derailment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsestomp Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 Okay, well I haven't checked the forums since I posted last...and I just finished re-reading the whole thing, and had another idea, but it's from 5-6 pages back... Cabal members are not meant to be average. They were always meant to be a slight step above, since their responsibilities dictated much of their existence. I not saying "No Newbie! You cannot join a Cabal!" I am saying "Yes! You can join a Cabal, and here's how it works. You will no longer be protected. You will be exposed to the utter harshness of cabal life. It will be hard. It will be tough. The perks will be less than you expected skill-wise, but the RP is where you will be fully rewarded. The immense struggles and battles will be more fulfilling. Still wanna sign up?" How about when they get into a cabal, they change from SG to HG, in regards to other caballed people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted July 22, 2008 Report Share Posted July 22, 2008 How about when they get into a cabal' date=' they change from SG to HG, in regards to other caballed people?[/quote'] THIS would be very open to abuse from people who just want protection until they join up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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