PLEASE READ: Major Proposal - The Two Tiered PK System

[Raargant]

THIS would be very open to abuse from people who just want protection until they join up.

Agreed, and this is why it will not happen. A tier change will be extremely rare and infrequent, much like a con-quest is currently.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Summarizing:

HG = qraces, qclasses, unlimited Cabal status, pure PK amongst each other, limited PK amongst the SG's, unlimited access to rares. FL as it is, at it's best.

SG = Protection from full looting, protection from multi-killing (unless they're in a cabal, in which case they MUST fulfill cabal duties), limited rares, PK still a factor (more so as the player base grows), limited cabal access.

With the rules that we have so far to balance this, I think we're heading in the right direction. I'm sure some things will change, but this system is as close as we've ever come to taking a HUGE step in protecting newer players from the harshness of a steep learning curve and the frustrations of the rough and tumble PK world that I've come to enjoy. Yes, I'm a sick man.

I would love to see this implemented. Give it a year. If the player base hasn't almost doubled in size, I'll eat both my shoes without ketchup and put the video on youtube.

In that year, you will see at least each of those newer players try out the hardcore setting AT LEAST once. With players like L-A, Fem-Nec, Myrek, Pali...etc...(I'm pointing at you four because you're all extremely intelligent and highly visible members of the community that carry great clout in the opinion department, and newer players gravitate towards you roguishness I've seen it!) these newer players will greatly desire to take their game to the next level, experience FL at its best.

I know, Raargant, it's not a newb tier. It's an alternative tier. Some people will prefer it. But, as I said, I'm exceptionally fond of FL. I like having that second tier there to promote the growth of the player base.

I do have one more suggestion for classes in the SG Tier. Don't allow them to master their anatomies.

Also, I sincerely hope that should the SG Tier becomes more popular than the HG tier, something will be done. That would be an extreme gravitation from the spirit of FL.

[corpsestomp]

Also' date=' I sincerely hope that should the SG Tier becomes more popular than the HG tier, something will be done. That would be an extreme gravitation from the spirit of FL.[/quote']

I really don't think that most of the people who play now will even want a SG character, because it gives them less access to rares and restricts PK. Even I(and let's face it, I'm no elite, and I'd hardly consider myself a veteran) probably wouldn't play SG, because it doesn't fit the style of play that I like. I enjoy being able to full-loot more than being full-looted brings me down.

The only reason I can see for trying one, is playing a class I've never done before, and trying to 'learn the ropes' of the class, without getting fried and starting all over. Specifically, I wouldn't mind trying a SG zerk, because I'm awful with them, but I wouldn't ever want to fully re-equip a zerk every time I wanted to try something new on someone.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Even I(and let's face it, I'm no elite, and I'd hardly consider myself a veteran) probably wouldn't play SG, because it doesn't fit the style of play that I like.

Specifically, I wouldn't mind trying a SG zerk, because I'm awful with them, but I wouldn't ever want to fully re-equip a zerk every time I wanted to try something new on someone.

You've said it yourself almost. Anyone could find a reason to play an SG character. And in a few years we could see a 75%-125% PB increase (I don't say more because any one world only holds so many characters at the start).

[Cephirus]

Also, I think perhaps at the beginning of Character creation, it should open with a question, first being are you new to muds, the second being are you new to FL. From there, I think it would be awesome to have a small tutorial explaining some of the commands and help files that are available. I find that the majority of new people to this game find out about having to drink and eat when hunger and thirst finally hit them. I think that a lot could be covered in said short tutorial, and also automatically can set there first character into (SG). Giving them an opportunity to both learn more about the game, and beginning to prepare them for the rough and tumble nature of the "hard" learning curve involved in pk.

[Aulian]

Well really they are supposed to be reading help tour and so forth. Im pretty sure (although not certain) it says so in those files.

The idea is a good one though, aslong as its optional.

[Mudder]

I like the whole idea of this, I really do. Though I just wish it didn't have to come to it. I wish our player base would just loot maturely. Stop multi-killing newbies, etc.

When do we suspect this would be implemented? Rough time estimate obviously.

[Raargant]

Pending approval from Malchaeius, my personal rough guesstimate would be a month or two after that, to give time for coding as well as final tweaking and bugfixing.

[Dizz]

I like it. A lot.

[Guest emp_newb]

I actually see very little problem with that. Maybe give the Softcore chars the option to drop their own immunity at will. Cause there are times you disarmed when you should have dirted, or rusted when you should have sharp metaled so on and so forth, and lets face it, if you think you should have won you WILL try again.

[Raargant]

If 'standard' characters attack 'hardcore' characters who they have immunity from, they will automatically forfeit their immunity.

[goldbond]

so then, if it's decided that this system will be implemented, will there be a p-wipe, and if so, will we be let known like 2 weeks, a month out? to me that's the most important question now, so i'll know when to get buck wile up in this piece

*brandish Staff of Gangsta-Max*

[Raargant]

In the event of implementation, a p-wipe should not be necessary.

[Evangelion]

Necessary? Perhaps not.

Desirable? Probably.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Necessary? Perhaps not.

Desirable? Probably.

Speak for yourself.

[Iyorvin]

This is a good thought, but I think in a trial period we'll quickly see a division of players, of which is obviously the purpose, but will most likely result in no hardcore players. Simply because the hardcore players love pk'ing, and they'll simply take the status that results in a wider pk range. If 10 people are pinnacled and online and only 30% are hardcore players.........then only 3 of the time will be hard core while 7 will be soft. Despite my pk experience, I'll be playing with the soft core players simply to have more fun.

I like the idea, but I don't think it'll work in the long run, unless it is extremely successful in raising the total players.

[Raargant]

Iyorvin, the two tiers will be able to engage in mutual PK. In the example you provided, all 10 players would be able to engage in PK; however, the 7 standard players would only be able to loot/be looted of 2 rares upon death, be their death by another 'standard' or another 'hardcore', whereas the three 'hardcore' players would be able to be fully looted by each other, or looted of 2 rares by a 'standard' if a 'standard' killed them.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Iyorvin' date=' the two tiers will be able to engage in mutual PK. In the example you provided, all 10 players would be able to engage in PK; however, the 7 standard players would only be able to loot/be looted of 2 rares upon death, be their death by another 'standard' or another 'hardcore', whereas the three 'hardcore' players would be able to be fully looted by each other, or looted of 2 rares by a 'standard' if a 'standard' killed them.[/quote']

Hmmmm.....if a standard kills a hardcore during cabal warfare, could another hardcore loot after the standard? I see some possible "alliances" between a standard and a hardcore that could make it easier for the standard to get ALL of the hardcore's equipment.

[Shinth]

I like this idea A LOT and I was wondering if there is a date set for when it will be implemented.

[Imoutgoodbye]

I like this idea A LOT and I was wondering if there is a date set for when it will be implemented.

Estimated 2-6 months. Best to worst case scenario. I.E. Goes off without a hitch. OR every coder catches Chayesh's Syphilis.

[Raargant]

Hmmmm.....if a standard kills a hardcore during cabal warfare' date=' could another hardcore loot after the standard? I see some possible "alliances" between a standard and a hardcore that could make it easier for the standard to get ALL of the hardcore's equipment.[/quote']

No. The corpse will be flagged based on the killer to prevent such abuses, and if a standard stuns then calls in a hardcore to kill/loot, all that is needed is one pray/note to IMM, and there will be hell to pay.

[Grappler]

I cant really place my finger on it...but for some reason I'm against this idea.

That said: If it brings more players..go for it.

[Iyorvin]

I get the same feeling Grappler. However, it's human instinct to oppose major change. The theory is sound, and there is no harm with a trial.

Good work Raar, you resolved my issues.

[Ex-D&Der]

I would be opposed to this idea, but if you do it cabals should definitely not be available to anyone who is not fully killable and lootable. In fact I might just make hardcore status a consequence of joining a cabal and leave it at that. Or maybe just level 50 and a certain number of hours of play, unless you join a cabal first. You can also choose to change tiers early if you wish. And what we're talking about is less two new tiers than a new status like adventurer status (rather than adventurer class). Maybe another name for it.

However I'm opposed to it because I think the issues this is meant to address should be addressed through IMM involvement, greater emphasis on roleplay, and changing of equipment. This is an enforced role-play, playerkilling MUD, not a PK MUD with mandatory roleplay.

[Evangelion]

I would be opposed to this idea, but if you do it cabals should definitely not be available to anyone who is not fully killable and lootable. In fact I might just make hardcore status a consequence of joining a cabal and leave it at that. Or maybe just level 50 and a certain number of hours of play, unless you join a cabal first. You can also choose to change tiers early if you wish. And what we're talking about is less two new tiers than a new status like adventurer status (rather than adventurer class). Maybe another name for it.

However I'm opposed to it because it segregates those who don't PK aggressively into an inferior status. What it's making up for is abusive play by trash killing powergamers by changing the code, when this should be prevented by IMM involvement and enforcement.

I do like the idea of making hardcore status a consequence of joining a cabal.

However, when the rules state that multi-killing and full looting are a part of the game after level 40, it's hard for IMMs to be overly punitive with anyone guilt of these actions.

That is not to say I do not like the way things are - I'm actually rather content with the PK status quo, because I'm currently on the upside of it (after eight years of getting that way). However, I can see where this would be beneficial for newer players, which can't necessarily always be distinguished by a veteran through simple PK interaction.

While I do enjoy the dangerous environment of the game, and it's one of the things that's kept me here so long, I can see where it would be a contributing factor to a smaller, more developed playerbase - it is hard to incorporate yourself into such a dangerous world when you're totally new to the game, if not to MUDs entirely.