Originally Posted by Twinblades713
"I think some people confuse cowardice with good survival skills. "
I get the same felling.
It's like people these days expect you to drop your weapons, sleep and do nothing while they kill you.
There NO REASON to die for your cabal standard. Ever.
If you are close to dieing and see no way to defeat them, you should escape regather yourself and then reclaim the Standard.
And no one should ever punish you for it.
Death is to be avoided.
That notion that Cabaled characters should fight to the death to defend their standard is ill conceived.
Back on topic. I also dont like the charmies thing. It is quite awfull to lose your pets when you have to go to a Standard.
Even if you only wish to scout you can lose your pets.
Also, what was ever wrong with Necros Keeping their pets on log off, even if they where scattered around the world.
PC have the "adrenaline" time to kill them, after that they are free to quit and not get killed.
But anyway here is an idea for you. What if:
You did not lose the distant pets on log off, but had them lose Strenght of Damened...
I think you confuse survival skills with poor role-play.
You have the right to think that. 
There NO REASON to die for your cabal standard. Ever.
If you are close to dieing and see no way to defeat them, you should escape regather yourself and then reclaim the Standard.
And no one should ever punish you for it.
Death is to be avoided.
That notion that Cabaled characters should fight to the death to defend their standard is ill conceived.
I see your point but I think this is exaggerating what I am saying. The point is if someone attacks your cabal you should go after them, not that you should never flee even if it means death. This should enable a necro to fight caballed members with their pets.
I'm not sure why the quitting out thing was changed, but if people were quitting out to get their pets back from inside a cabal that's using OOC knowledge.
I think some people confuse cowardice with good survival skills.
And you have the right to think that.
That notion that Cabaled characters should fight to the death to defend their standard is ill conceived.
I'm going to admit that I haven't been cabaled in a looong time here. But when I was in Warmaster, Chaos, etc. I was told that if your sacred ground was attacked, you fought no matter the odds. And I was told this by Immortals. I think that's where a lot of peoples notion of "fight till the death" comes from. On one occassion it was actually the mortal leader, Trakkannon, who gave me a verbal tongue lashing for standing at my cabal guard awaiting an impending Savant attack.
I guess this whole line of thought has been changed. It's got some of its own ups and downs in my eyes. But, I'm not going to debate that.
What I feel is that if you can separate a class from their pets, pets which are used to make that class a fair fight, simply by opening a door... that's a little odd. I don't agree with it.
However, if this is the way it's intended to be, then let it be, let it be. I just never really was too into the whole cabal warfare thing. Sure, you get those really cool skills/spells, but you've got to do so much stuff in return (and rightly so). If the cabal fits your RP, go for it. Personally, I find more freedom in not being in a cabal.
a-g
But anyway here is an idea for you. What if:
You did not lose the distant pets on log off, but had them lose Strenght of Damened...
That really isnt that bad a suggestion.
When I first joined a cabal (CHAOS 1.0) Zaen told me I was required to defend though I was not required to 'throw myself on my enemies spears needlessely ie I could rest up before defending.
I was also told if anyone (non-caballed) attacked the caballed they were to be hunted down and killed. Whenever I next saw them.
Using the cabal guard in cabal war isn't the best option - its only effective when the other player is able to beat you alone but can't defend you and the melee from the guard (eg invoker with poor melee skills). I've seen players use it as a crutch - the thing is, its only a matter of time until you wear them down or find them not at the guard.
Also, if you are waiting for someone to attack you give up all initiaive. Without that you will have almost zero chance of winning - even against an opponent who will likely kill you anyway. Best option is always to go on the offensive.
The same applies to the losers who take your standard and sit inside their cabal and only fight you as you retrieve. Grow a pair people - come out and hunt down the other cabal member. I've always only made token appeareances when pepole do this. Either they will chase and fight me without mob assistance or I can run off elsewhere and make their life a boring 'sit at my cabal and bitch you won't come near me' session. Again, they are waiting on me and my timetable which gives me a sizable advantage.
L-A
How often do you stand there telling someone to shoot you?
You don't because you know you dont get another shot.
No preserving your life with everything you've got is IMO the worst RP anyone can have.
@Ex: I'm with you here, the martyr is a viable RP option. Seemed to be ever present for awhile, then when it was discussed that expecting to res after getting killed was bad RP, it got avoided in order to not be called a "trash" player or something.
@Lay-About: I agree with you. Grow a set and venture out, it makes the game a lot more fun, too. But, I don't recall Zaen telling me to fight to the death, it was another IMM, can't recall which. Kao/Mali? I dunno, I might be confusing it with a different situation entirely now that I think about it. It was, after all, with my Demon so the Crypti/Kao demon war could have had something to do with it.
But the Warmaster Cabal was always fight to death for honor sort of stuff when I was in it. I remember a note going out from a fellow WM saying how he fell on his own sword for failing to defend (aka, Deleted), and a note going out from the leader at that time saying that this was the best thing any WM could do if they were failed. It was the whole, "win or die trying attitude" that came over from AR's Warlords, I think.
a-g
How often do you stand there telling someone to shoot you?
You've obviously never seen members of rival gangs interacting.
Some things are more important than life itself. This is especially (and often) true in fantasy.
How often do you stand there telling someone to shoot you?
You don't, because people in FL don't have guns. Death is a regular facet of daily life in Aabahran. Think about the fact that evil shamans slinging curses running through the streets, being chased by bloodthirsty crusaders happens more often than occasionally, and realize that dying isn't that big of a deal in the FL world.
How often do you stand there telling someone to shoot you?
Not what I mean exactly. I'm thinking more like someone going into combat with the idea he's protecting his country, or throwing himself on a grenade to save his friends, or advancing under fire for the sake of the platoon.
The RP is that you are brought back because your god deemed you worthy, but you didn't know it was going to happen.
I can see both points of view. It's certainly valiant to say "You'll take my standard over my dead body!", but in my opinion that type of RP is more fit for common footsoldiers. Your character isn't some mindless disposable soldier, he's a general for his cabal, he shouldn't sacrifice his life when he knows the battle is lost. He should know that after he dies, nobody will be around to defend his cabal..he doesn't think to himself "Oh, after I die I'll just have to re-equip."
I'm not saying you shouldn't go to great lengths to defend your cabal from 2-3 enemies, but if you're close to death with no shot of taking anyone out, it would just be stupid to stay there and let them kill you. This especially goes for cabals like Nexus, where your RP should require you to be much more self-serving.
Look. You ALL make very valid points.
In the end, this is all up to what your "character" would do. Is your character the honorable Knight that would die before he let you kill his fellow guard? Or is he a cowardly Syndicate that wouldn't give two cents to save the life of his lookout?
You decide how you want to act and then your Cabal Imm will decide wether he wants to yell at you/punish you, etc.
With good roleplay you can do this however you want. As long as you don't abuse things. Hiding in your cabal is NEVER alright.
Keep in mind, most cabal imms will warn you before you get into trouble. Then, you can still keep your cowardly RP, just be more afraid of your cabal imm than the attacker. shrug
There is no one set way to play in cabals. That is between you and your Imm. 
yeah the argument is kind of amusing...different characters will respond different ways
of my own..Syiara the avatar monk would die to save the Knight guard. On the flip side Lethennon the drow cleric told several people who attacked syndicate that "the guard needed to earn his pay"
shrug
cant say either way is wrong.