RARE vs UNIQUE vs NON-RARE

[The End]

Let's make this a serious discussion.

I think that the rares should NOT be changed stat wise, I think that veteran players should have an edge if they know how to get the gear. I also believe that it should be difficult to get that armor (for the most part) and require player interaction. But is it worth all the trouble?

Here is my idea and why, simple version.

TAKE OUT THE RARE SYSTEM COMPLETELY. All rares would become common (EXCEPT FOR THE RARE FLAG FOR INVENTORY AND RANK LIMITS) and make UNIQUE items rare in that they are limited. I believe there are very few unique items that do not have a similar rare matched too them. It will also give the haha I got it now you have to come get it approach.

This will allow casual players to stay in the game and not horde rares (not that I personally believe that is a problem) and it also promotes an equal playing field. The people who have those power suits will be fighting people with other great gear instead of crap most of the time.

It does not eliminate the advantage of EQ because it still takes time to get it. The difference is that you know it will be there when you take the time to find it.

Here is what I posted on the Prayer Forum as an Idea.

**********************************************

What makes a rare, rare?

The location, the difficulty level to obtain, the limited number of items available and the advanced stats. Limited inventory control. Rank restrictions.

What does this accomplish?

It allows characters the ability to have an edge over other players.

It allows more customization of defense and offense.

Why would you limit something that is needed for profer defense/offense? I understand the idea behind it, but I think the difficulty to obtain those items is enough work in order to obtain the item. You can upgrade some items to unique that are currently very rare, but it would reduce A LOT of work on the staffs part and I THINK it would still solve the problem.

The problem with super suits is not the fact that they exist, but they are not available to everyone because there will always be super characters who rarely die and know EVERY single location of eq. All it does is make them stronger and prevent others from obtaining that equipment.

Again it is rewarding PK with EXTRA perks, basically if you are good enough to get the eq you are good enough to keep it...I don't think this should be the case.

[KRins]

Eh... I'll be honest. We should just limit how many rares you can have on any given character. Some people are so decked they don't ever die. It's like playing an FPS with wallhacks. It isn't aimbot so it isn't doing it for you, but come on...whats the fun in it other than PWNIN SUM NUBS CUZ I IS SUPER 1337? I guess human greed is technically insatiable and some people must have that ego inflated to max at all times, but is it even moderately entertaining to win when it is a given?

[Rethrick]

I am just kinda tired of trying to find even the easiest rare and they are not thier because everybody and thier sister have them. Hell, I spent almost two weeks trying to find a double plate helm and had to trade a dang crown of might for it (only cause a crown of might does my char no good). I have to really walk around in mithril and hope some melee class doesn't notice I am around.

[Anoneemus]

Limiting someone to half a suit of rares doesn't change anything. Then they'll just have the best rare half-suit possible with the best non-rare half suit possible, and they'll still be facing others with inferior gear.

[Imoutgoodbye]

*tosses out seven ogre berserkers on the table*

Rare, Unique, and Non-Rare.

*tosses out seven elven invokers*

I have purposely sandwiched the title between the melee and the caster.

Comparing each ogre to each ogre and each elf to each elf, they are equal to each other. Without equipment.

And to an extent, equipment plays a decent part. However, a "veteran" players edge does not come from that equipment. It comes from knowing their characters and strategies inside and out. Everything's like a puzzle that way in FL.

Super characters are built, not from the suit, but from the knowledge.

The system isn't broken. You're just looking at the undercarriage and it looks funny.

[Pali]

This misses a large part of why there are rare things... the PK-incentive it creates. Bob has eq I want? Kill Bob (YES, killing for eq can be perfectly fine from an RP standpoint). The incentive's a lot smaller for killing Bob if I know that I could alternatively, no matter what, spend more time but FAR less risk going after the mob who has it (most combos can, with sufficient patience, solo almost everywhere/everything - in a large part because anyone can use a bow as opposed to just those with the skill... if you did get rid of rares for the most part, I'd HIGHLY recommend taking this ability out).

P.S. Shouldn't this thread be in the Ideas section?

[WarriorCleric]

Limiting someone to half a suit of rares doesn't change anything. Then they'll just have the best rare half-suit possible with the best non-rare half suit possible' date=' and they'll still be facing others with inferior gear.[/quote']

WC

[English lad]

I don't think we should remove the rare system.. However I think non-rares could do with a boost so that they are on the sort of level that common rares are now, then boost the next set of rares up slightly.

The problem imo isn't in the rare system, its that the are a small amount of 'god pieces' that are not only nicer than the equivalent rares, but are actually exponentially better. The gap between how good equipment is should get smaller as you get better equipment, not larger.

[Pali]

I don't think we should remove the rare system.. However I think non-rares could do with a boost so that they are on the sort of level that common rares are now, then boost the next set of rares up slightly.

The problem imo isn't in the rare system, its that the are a small amount of 'god pieces' that are not only nicer than the equivalent rares, but are actually exponentially better. The gap between how good equipment is should get smaller as you get better equipment, not larger.

Agreed.

[Kyzarius]

when the rare isnt on the mob, find the player.

[The End]

I want to see that paladin kick the healers *** for that saves gear.

what about part time players who can't spend the hours most of you do getting that gear only to see its not there. locate object aside because you have to make it repop just in case.

the change itself will modivate pk because there will be closer fights and no worries about losing the gear you know will be there. also takes a little sting away from the time loss of full loots.

two warriors of equal skill will fight and one will die. the winner will be the better equipment and cabal skills. how isit fair to hold an advantage that you can't achieve because the gear isn't there.

seriously say why the points are wrong or don't make stupid comments.

yes I know I posted rave not rare. whoops.

[Raargant]

I don't think we should remove the rare system.. However I think non-rares could do with a boost so that they are on the sort of level that common rares are now, then boost the next set of rares up slightly.

The problem imo isn't in the rare system, its that the are a small amount of 'god pieces' that are not only nicer than the equivalent rares, but are actually exponentially better. The gap between how good equipment is should get smaller as you get better equipment, not larger.

This is on the horizon to be dealt with.

yes I know I posted rave not rare. whoops.

Thread title has been fixed.

This is a direct port from a prayer forums thread. My response is the same. It isn't happening. I'm not going to get into a debate about this, because to be honest, while we appreciate your views and opinions, there is not a need for us to get into an in-depth discussion about why every view or idea we disagree with is not going to be put in the MUD. Why? Because in the end you still won't be convinced, and this still won't be put in, which will have made it an absolute waste of time for everyone involved.

I'll only explain why this won't be put in with the stipulation that afterwards, I'm not going to be drawn into a debate about it. Agreed?

[English lad]

This is on the horizon to be dealt with.

yay! For anybody who notices trends i most have posted that idea to death in the last few months, its been my personal mini-crusade

[random_clown]

Gear makes a players tactic stronger, true. However, it takes a lot of gear to make a poor tactic work. Simarly, strong base tactics don't require as help "help" from gear.

In short, equipment will enhance the effectiveness of what you do, but its still up to you to be doing the right things.

I have, on a number of occasions, been able to take out very well equiped characters(some may say "decked") while wearing minimal amounts, sometimes all non-rare as both caster and melee.

In fact, I would go so far as to say I play better when equipped poorly. It does a number of things to my style. I get more creative, and put together much tighter tactics in order to compensate for the lack of equipment. When loaded up with gear, my tactics tend to get lazy because I, as mentioned before, know that lesser tactics will be sufficiently enhanced to become effective rather than needing the tactic to be, in and of itself, highly effective.

In summary, don't worry yourself about equipment. Play well and it will tend to accumulate. Either way it goes, traversing the array of equipment states is plenty of fun.

[Pali]

I want to see that paladin kick the healers *** for that saves gear.

This is part of the downside of playing a good. You don't like it, don't play goods.

what about part time players who can't spend the hours most of you do getting that gear only to see its not there. locate object aside because you have to make it repop just in case.

Killing the player wearing it guarantees you get it.

the change itself will modivate pk because there will be closer fights and no worries about losing the gear you know will be there. also takes a little sting away from the time loss of full loots.

It also removes a ton of the risk and thrill of pk, knowing that it'll hurt you if you lose.

two warriors of equal skill will fight and one will die. the winner will be the better equipment and cabal skills. how isit fair to hold an advantage that you can't achieve because the gear isn't there.

We're adding cabal skills to the mix now? Should everyone have an equal guarantee of getting those too? Come on. One has the advantage because they EARNED the advantage. They spent time and energy gaining their set, and most of the time a fair bit of that set they gained from PK, not from running through Steel/Gear/etc.

[The End]

We're adding cabal skills to the mix now? Should everyone have an equal guarantee of getting those too? Come on. One has the advantage because they EARNED the advantage. They spent time and energy gaining their set, and most of the time a fair bit of that set they gained from PK, not from running through Steel/Gear/etc.

just so you know it wasn't a shot at you.

yes they are in the mix. evrything combines to create one experience for everyone. when you limit two of the biggest advantages gear and cabal it leaves the casual player down and out. it would take away one huge advantage and replace it with a reward if you put the time into the equip effort.

let me also so no to raar, if you want to post prayer forum then ignore go for it but posted here I will debate it. I know there are plans to tone certain rare equipment stats but I don't think that will solve the problem. I won't argue but I want to know what benefits we get when the equipment is limited.

I see it very plainly, could be biased, if you are good enough to keep the equipment you don't need it as much as most people. so why give it to them and not everyone who is willing to take the time to get it. it takes skill to keep alive, let alone if you have one piece of awesome gear and everyone wants it.

I never learned anything by being killed so fast I didn't know what happened. this is basically for the top to stay on top.

did all this on my phone so bear with mistakes....like rave. and I don't mind being told I am an asshat so long as you say why. I know I come across strong, I have 33str.

[Raargant]

let me also so no to raar, if you want to post prayer forum then ignore go for it but posted here I will debate it. I know there are plans to tone certain rare equipment stats but I don't think that will solve the problem. I won't argue but I want to know what benefits we get when the equipment is limited.

I'm assuming you mean 'say no', not 'so no', as in, 'no' to my offer of explaining why this won't be implemented without me then engaging in further pointless debate. That's fine as well. Enjoy your debate here with whoever is interested in debating it with you then. But this is not going to be implemented.

[Pali]

If the end goal, like so many suggested changes these days, is to make the game easier to play for "casual players" (I have no idea what this really means... I consider myself a casual player these days, but none of these things brought up are really problems to me), then I'm WAY more supportive of Raar's two-tier suggestion than this one.

[The End]

If the end goal' date=' like so many suggested changes these days, is to make the game easier to play for "casual players" (I have no idea what this really means... I consider myself a casual player these days, but none of these things brought up are really problems to me), then I'm WAY more supportive of Raar's two-tier suggestion than this one.[/quote']

I am in NO WAY SHAPE FORM OR FASHION saying tat raars system should not be implemented. I like it, I think that change is a good thing. Having said that, let me say this.

The "casual" player is someone who does not get to play every day, and when they do get to play it is for a very short time (30-120) minutes maybe twice a week or so. When you take into account the time it takes to equip with a rare suit just to COMPETE with the vets and not get stomped it makes 3/4 of the play time get devoted to gear. Unless you want to run around in Mithril or Tainted gear.

The idea is not to make it "easier" it is to make it a more level playing field. I would not be opposed to making more of the gear harder to get or even bumping some up to unique. But to have no certainty in getting that gear after 30 minutes of work is absolutely absurd when you don't have the time to devote to it.

The Kill the Player Excuse:

I want to see you kill Triathix in anything less than a maxed suit and a little luck. I want to see you survive in a basic suit if he wants you dead. That is the only player still alive from when I left last so, yes I know he is a damn good player. The point is that it takes a lot to compete, why make it harder?

The Main Idea:

The overall goal here is to draw in new players. Well muds are a 90's game and kids who have the time to play like most of us did will be all over WOW and consoles. We have to target people who prefer games like this one that actually takes an imagination to play. (No offense to WOW gamers, I just hate that game.). FOCUS your attention on what made it hard for you when you first started, it wasn't dying repeatedly, it was getting whomped and looking at the screen in time to see you are horribly stupidly dead. Rare gear can take away that big advantage. It won't take away THE advantage of experience, but it will take out the pownage.

Raar, I changed my mind.. I won't draw you into it so long as WE can debate it and have no expectation of you commenting again.

Deal?

[Shinth]

The Main Idea:

The overall goal here is to draw in new players. Well muds are a 90's game and kids who have the time to play like most of us did will be all over WOW and consoles. We have to target people who prefer games like this one that actually takes an imagination to play. (No offense to WOW gamers, I just hate that game.). FOCUS your attention on what made it hard for you when you first started, it wasn't dying repeatedly, it was getting whomped and looking at the screen in time to see you are horribly stupidly dead. Rare gear can take away that big advantage. It won't take away THE advantage of experience, but it will take out the pownage.

Deal?

You know what was my biggest frustration?

That damn lantern DISAPPEARING!

Made me quit the first time when I tried playing FL, many months ago, and almost made me quit now. Can't remember which cleric gave me that ball of light, but I am eternally grateful for that!

[mya]

You can get a free lantern at Temples Shinth.

I think basic suits should be more avaiable.

The different between rare and non rare is quite step.

For example we could have more non rare single bonus focused equipment.

For example like the Glutony cloak, saves but no Hit/Dam, but the minor globe a rare gives saves and Hit/Dam.

For example getting a decent saves suit should be easy.

As should getting a Hit/Dam suit.

But not a suit with both Hit/Dam and saves.

For example if we had a suit "akin" to the mithril but with 10 AC across and -2 saves vs spell it would be great, for CC.

That is -40 svs vs spell if all slots used (weapon/shield), which might appears great for you, but i can guarantee that spells will land throw that with some ease, and Communers will drop saves for rings/weapons/hitroll.

And you wont defeat a shaman with those, or play a Invocker without mana/HP gear. Battlemages might have fun, but warriors will maul them.

For example the Blue Mage armor suit in Citadel, is an example of an suit of armor that had the potential to be used, but is not because it's full of malausus.

[Chromatic]

You can get a free lantern at Temples Shinth.

Yes, you can...NOW.

Thanks to whoever finally thought of that and got it implemented. Was a great idea, though sometimes it bugs out on me and won't give me a light if I have water.

[The End]

You can get a free lantern at Temples Shinth.

I think basic suits should be more avaiable.

The different between rare and non rare is quite step.

For example we could have more non rare single bonus focused equipment.

For example like the Glutony cloak, saves but no Hit/Dam, but the minor globe a rare gives saves and Hit/Dam.

For example getting a decent saves suit should be easy.

As should getting a Hit/Dam suit.

But not a suit with both Hit/Dam and saves.

For example if we had a suit "akin" to the mithril but with 10 AC across and -2 saves vs spell it would be great, for CC.

That is -40 svs vs spell if all slots used (weapon/shield), which might appears great for you, but i can guarantee that spells will land throw that with some ease, and Communers will drop saves for rings/weapons/hitroll.

And you wont defeat a shaman with those, or play a Invocker without mana/HP gear. Battlemages might have fun, but warriors will maul them.

For example the Blue Mage armor suit in Citadel, is an example of an suit of armor that had the potential to be used, but is not because it's full of malausus.

The staff is working on this, but that only takes away some of the advantage and it will take quite some time to accomplish this.

Comprimise:

Do it until you get the common equipment changed?

:-D

[Pali]

The "casual" player is someone who does not get to play every day' date=' and when they do get to play it is for a very short time (30-120) minutes maybe twice a week or so. When you take into account the time it takes to equip with a rare suit just to COMPETE with the vets and not get stomped it makes 3/4 of the play time get devoted to gear. Unless you want to run around in Mithril or Tainted gear.[/quote']

Frankly, I do not think that people who play 4-10 hours a month should be getting things like full rare suits or cabal memberships, period. If you're not willing to put the time and effort in, you shouldn't be getting certain rewards. One could also add in qraces and qclasses to this... after all, being one of those brings specific pk advantages as well, so shouldn't the casual player also have easy access to them? If you ask me, the answer is a resounding "NO". You want something special (good eq, cabal memberships, quest races, titles, tattoos, etc.) in this game, you have to earn it through time and work. I am absolutely against anything that changes this.

The idea is not to make it "easier" it is to make it a more level playing field. I would not be opposed to making more of the gear harder to get or even bumping some up to unique. But to have no certainty in getting that gear after 30 minutes of work is absolutely absurd when you don't have the time to devote to it.

While I agree in attempting to level the playing field a bit, I think that the far better way to do it is to lessen the gaps between unique/rare/nonrare eq (and therefore make competing in suits that aren't full of rares feasible) instead of making only the uber pieces rare and everything else common.

P.S. I think there needs to be an FL version of Godwin's Law when it comes to Triathix references...

[The End]

Pali...

If you have a full time job and you play this game more than 15 hours a month you have almost 0 life or responsability outside work (I.E. Kids). Unless you can play at work like some of us.

Think about the common situation, because I guarantee that there are very FEW people here who can play like you think they (should) and have a family. That is why our players dropped, they didn't have the time to stay on top.