RARE vs UNIQUE vs NON-RARE

[Minotaur]

but the reason they get the gear is they're smarter players, they're better players, and they know how to get that gear when they don't have it.

as i respect your opinion. the truth of the matter is the reason they have these is because everything is so closely guarded in the game. everything is a secret, and even if you did explore the higher areas you wouldnt know the gear came from there because thriathix is wearing it all, ( just an example.)

more experienced, yes, better... subject to opinion.

[Grishnak]

You don't NEED the top gear to fight, you really don't. I've killed a level 30 thief who was decked with a level 30 bard.... when I had squat. Why? Well, I did have a group, but they didn't follow when the thief bolted, I took him solo. Point? I killed him.

I hate to tell you, but this completely nullifies your entire argument. You can't build a case for any equipment imbalances pre-50 because no class is meant to be balanced until 50. It doesn't matter how decked you are, if you come across a class that trumps yours at your level pre-50, you're pretty much boned.

[Anoneemus]

- one of the main reasons for inbalince in cabals. ( some people follow the decked out ogre rangers' date=' whever they go *cough* *cough*. -if you cant beat them join them mentality)[/quote']

That's not really true. Even if you somehow equalized all eq so it was irrelevant, those strong players would still dominate and people would follow them regardless. I don't think the eq is the cause so much as the effect of being good.

[Pali]

2) we are all guilty of it the OOC reasons for acquiring gear. everyone who see's someone wearing full adepus has either a concous or subconcous thought of .... can i take that guy?

If you were planning on trying to kill someone, wouldn't your first thoughts be about whether it's doable in the first place? How is that OOC? We're playing a fantasy game. Our characters know that things have magical or otherwise special properties. If you see someone IRL in a kevlar bodysuit with an M16 you wouldn't try to confront him with a 9mm pistol and a leather jacket, the same applies in game. You're allowed to RP your characters actually thinking about their actions.

[Pali]

as i respect your opinion. the truth of the matter is the reason they have these is because everything is so closely guarded in the game. everything is a secret, and even if you did explore the higher areas you wouldnt know the gear came from there because thriathix is wearing it all, ( just an example.)

more experienced, yes, better... subject to opinion.

Secret on the forums, yes. NOT secret in game. No offense, but your characters were not the type who attempted to ingratiate themselves to people and therefore make them like you and willing to help you, but were quite the opposite... you even had ME coming after you on one of my least PK-aggressive characters in years because you pissed off my character in game. You also chose extremely difficult paths in terms of race/class/cabal selection for a new player to take... Syndicate is not a cabal that tries super-hard to prop up its own, it is a cabal for criminals, killers, people out to make a buck no matter the job and who look out for themselves above all.

Had you played friendlier characters, and/or attempted to get into one of the cabals that looks more after its own (Warmaster, Tribunal, Watcher, Knight, Savant...), you'd have found PLENTY of people willing to teach you the whats and wheres of eq.

[Minotaur]

Had you played friendlier characters, and/or attempted to get into one of the cabals that looks more after its own (Warmaster, Tribunal, Watcher, Knight, Savant...), you'd have found PLENTY of people willing to teach you the whats and wheres of eq.

1) you were one of the most helpful people when was playing.

2) what does cabal choice have to do with vets hoarding information?

Yea i know i'm a firefighter and the building your in is on fire, however, you sir are a lawyer, and i hate lawyers... you'll have to find your own way out of the building...

[Anoneemus]

This whole "vets hoarding information" thing is so completely untrue. I help out anyone who wants to know anything, and when I need to know something, I've very rarely had anyone in game say "Find it yourself" or "It's a secret. Vet conspiracy". I've even asked my ENEMIES about how they were able to do such and such, or what I could have done better, and they usually tell me. In game experience is how I know what I know, for the most part.

[Twinblades713]

This whole "vets hoarding information" thing is so completely untrue. I help out anyone who wants to know anything' date=' and when I need to know something, I've very rarely had anyone in game say "Find it yourself" or "It's a secret. Vet conspiracy". I've even asked my ENEMIES about how they were able to do such and such, or what I could have done better, and they usually tell me. In game experience is how I know what I know, for the most part.[/quote']

Agreed. I can't remember a time when someone so bluntly said they wouldn't tell me anything. Even roundabout ways of hoarding information doesn't happen. I'm just usually too newb to remember instructions through places to get neat stuff, or to remember tactics to use for next time.

[Pali]

1) you were one of the most helpful people when was playing.

Which disproves your idea that vets are all about hoarding info, seeing as I'm one of them.

2) what does cabal choice have to do with people not telling me things?

Fixed. Now, for an answer...

Cabal choice will have an effect on how likely you are to have allies who aren't @$$holes (IC @$$holes, of course) and will spend their own time helping you out. I'm not saying that all Syndis are going to be super-selfish and never help anyone, of course, but you didn't exactly pick a newbie-friendly cabal that strongly pushes its members to work together for a greater good.

[Iusedtobesomebody]

Overall I'd agree' date=' though luck is also a huge factor in how many fights play out. I took a warrior in mithril (was re-equiping after a death) up against Arath (Syndi elder vampire played by an elite player) in his prime once and beat the ever-unliving snot out of him (I missed one bash with him at awful which let him flee) because I had the blind chance while wandering around trying to re-equip to walk into the room he was in at noon and I figured "what the hell?" and started bashing immediately (no sanc for either of us, and he had the bad luck of me wielding my only weapon at the time - Power staff). I'd have ended up with a full suit of Adeptus had that last bash landed, purely on me having the good luck to catch him in the day unprepped and him having the bad luck to be bashlocked to death by an unenlarged ogre warrior with staff at 107 hitting his vuln.[/quote']

sounds just like my ogre warrior syndi taking down Azaghtoth. mithril and power staff vs. big time shinies. and down he went. shinies now mine.

it is very possible to win in non- or low tier-rares. how you control the other aspects of the situation has a large part to it. consumables? terrain? tactics? element of surprise? it's an uphill battle, yes, but not as hard as people make it out to be. just requires a bit of planning and preparation.

[Quigt]

No offense, but your characters were not the type who attempted to ingratiate themselves to people and therefore make them like you and willing to help you, but were quite the opposite...

But should somebody have to go outside the bounds of their character's RP in order to learn the game? Logically, you should be able to gain skill with whatever RP you choose, and theoretically, it's possible. However, in my experience it has been entirely unlikely.

[Shinth]

This whole "vets hoarding information" thing is so completely untrue. I help out anyone who wants to know anything' date=' and when I need to know something, I've very rarely had anyone in game say "Find it yourself" or "It's a secret. Vet conspiracy". I've even asked my ENEMIES about how they were able to do such and such, or what I could have done better, and they usually tell me. In game experience is how I know what I know, for the most part.[/quote']

Quoted For Truth.

People will help you if you ask.

[random_clown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anoneemus

This whole "vets hoarding information" thing is so completely untrue. I help out anyone who wants to know anything, and when I need to know something, I've very rarely had anyone in game say "Find it yourself" or "It's a secret. Vet conspiracy". I've even asked my ENEMIES about how they were able to do such and such, or what I could have done better, and they usually tell me. In game experience is how I know what I know, for the most part.

Quoted For Truth.

People will help you if you ask.

I would often do similar things. If someone asked me about fairly obscure knowledge, or locations, I wouldn't usually outright tell them and draw a map. However, I would give them enough information that would give them the right start to exploring and discovering it themself. I didn't see the value in just matter of factly brain dumping on another character. I much rather set them out on an adventure with my clues.

[Minotaur]

well thats certainly changed since i left, i think ill roll another character, looks like the grumpy folks are all gone.

[a-guitarist]

I hate to tell you' date=' but this completely nullifies your entire argument. You can't build a case for any equipment imbalances pre-50 because no class is meant to be balanced until 50. It doesn't matter how decked you are, if you come across a class that trumps yours at your level pre-50, you're pretty much boned.[/quote']

I'd usually agree on this point, but now I'm going to politely say that you are wrong here. Why? Well, gear is gear. Gear makes a bigger difference before 50 than it does at 50. True, there are power spikes pre 50... but... in my first case I was a Bard... come on... nothing power spikes like a bard pre-50... I mean... Bards kill EVERYTHING for the first 40 levels of pla-.... wait, nope. They don't.

As for the second? I was a Zerk. I pretty much have my power spike ~30 just like the DK. It was a "fair" fight, as far as that goes. That fight could have gone more to my liking if I prepared myself for it, but, regardless.

All things were, essentially, equal in the fights. And my gear meant crap in both. So, I'll take from it what I learned: I need to get better in order to win... not some guy all geared up made me lose. All classes are "balanced" at 50, that is "true" to some extent... but mostly not. When was the last time you saw a Warrior reign supreme at 50 without having everyone cry "unbalanced cabal powers", when was the last time you saw a Bard do the same? Or a Zerk, or a Thief or Dark-Knight?

Am I bitch'n about this? Nope. Things are this way for a reason. I'm just saying... equipment doesn't make the fight. To decide I don't know what I'm talking about because I wasn't at 50 in both these fights I mentioned is slightly ridiculous in my opinion, but it's your right. (And yes, I do know who you've played, and I do respect your opinion. I remember watching you roll the world with your forum handle, and it was amazing.)

a-g

[Pali]

But should somebody have to go outside the bounds of their character's RP in order to learn the game? Logically' date=' you should be able to gain skill with whatever RP you choose, and theoretically, it's possible. However, in my experience it has been entirely unlikely.[/quote']

Your RP is your choice, and it's ridiculous to expect a char played like a jerk to get as much help as a char played as a happy-go-lucky-lover-of-hugs. My characters will not help someone that they do not like, because it'd be breaking MY RP to do so.

[Grishnak]

I'd usually agree on this point, but now I'm going to politely say that you are wrong here. Why? Well, gear is gear. Gear makes a bigger difference before 50 than it does at 50. True, there are power spikes pre 50... but... in my first case I was a Bard... come on... nothing power spikes like a bard pre-50... I mean... Bards kill EVERYTHING for the first 40 levels of pla-.... wait, nope. They don't.

This is a total side debate and I'm just picking a piece of your argument because I think bards are widely underestimated....

Look at a bard's skill list and give me a reason they DON'T rock? Before I quit I had a bard that I was training up who never lost a fight pre-50. I strongly believe they are the most undervalued class pk-wise in the game.

I agree with some of your points, but I also think that pre-50 eq makes a much smaller difference. I don't agree with half the people screaming that EQ makes of breaks a player (though if you search back to my posts about melees vs CC classes, I still hold firm to that believe), but I don't think a pre-50 example can be used to validate or contradict these arguments.

[Ex-D&Der]

Playing more frequently should give you an advantage, but it shouldn't be impossible for someone to compete if they play 1-2 hours per week. It's just too discouraging for newbies and you are really limiting the p-base, not to mention it just sucks for those of us with less time. In 1.0 you didn't really need to put in the kind of time the game now requires. I think some changes can and should be made to EQ to push things back in that direction.

[a-guitarist]

This is a total side debate and I'm just picking a piece of your argument because I think bards are widely underestimated....

Look at a bard's skill list and give me a reason they DON'T rock? Before I quit I had a bard that I was training up who never lost a fight pre-50. I strongly believe they are the most undervalued class pk-wise in the game.

I agree with some of your points, but I also think that pre-50 eq makes a much smaller difference. I don't agree with half the people screaming that EQ makes of breaks a player (though if you search back to my posts about melees vs CC classes, I still hold firm to that believe), but I don't think a pre-50 example can be used to validate or contradict these arguments.

I see what you are saying, but as I have no recent experience at 50 I can only share what I've got. And believe, you, me... I really can't figure out why a Bard isn't tooling the pbase. I can't figure it out at all. The reason I said that about bards, is, well, I catch a ton of hell for saying that I think they are monsters in sheep's clothing. Remember my handle on AR and when I first go there? BerzerkerBard... two of my favorite classes, and neither of which I play worth a damn. Otherwise I'd have a bard killing everyone at 50... I've got the bard and death down... just my own.

As for pre-50, I do feel it can be used to lend insight into this... but again, my insight is limited.

a-g

[Kyzarius]

First off, eq is a part of the Forsaken Lands. It is an integral part of our characters lives.

1, Spending time in a group to get EQ is for many people their only real lengthy form of interaction with other characters, hands down.

2, picking through the loot someone in your cabal has dumped on the ground from a kill is part of our characters lives.

3, going after someone because your an illithid necro needing hp and they have that brooch of life on is COMPLETLY LEGIT.

4, getting full looted is part of our characters lives.

EQ is a part of our world, it is armor, it is what our characters seek out in order to empower themselves and make their way in the world. A character not wanting to risk their armor, a character wanting to kill someone for a piece of armor...this is NEVER OOC, because EQ only exists IN GAME.

Veterans, for the most part, do not hoard information. I have gone into the game playing classes I feel I am quite good at and gone so far as to guide obvious newbies through zones in order to teach them. Helped people who ask, and Killed the ones who are buttholes. On the flip side I have asked for help icly time and time again on classes I am not so well versed in and gotten help EVERY time. Now, when your an elven paladin you cant expect the drow shaman to help you, really...

EQ is not the be all end all, with Lethennon, Lorfaine, Korropant, Stytnlye and several others my tact has always been the same. Get a set of mediocre eq, of things I can get myself then bring down some semi decked fool like a bleeding elephant and begin decking myself out. If you are quick, maintain a lvl of awareness to your surroundings and know when to retreat and when to charge you can take down almost anyone. Now there are always those very few who seem to rise above, but thats what the challenge of the game is...overcomming your foes despite their percieved or real advantages.

[The End]

Let me say this again because it just is NOT sinking in and every person here is going all the way to New York to get around the arguement. (unless you live in New York, in which case you go to Philly)

The arguement is this...The People who can KEEP the equipment don't need it NEARLY as much as the people who can't. Why then, would you prevent the people who CAN'T keep it from getting it again? When the item is limited, it is much harder to get again, if you even know where it is.

This would not impact getting groups for gear, it would actually encourage it because you would KNOW the gear would be in for the most part. Thus more people would be willing to go.

It would not take away from PK, I believe that it would encourage it. If you are not worried about your basic gear, you will fight harder. Everyone has said that! Why would it not hold true for rare gear?

ALL this does is level the playing field where it is drastically different. Do not take away the advantage of equipment knowledge, just make it available for everyone.

I also heavily agree that this game takes 5Xmore time than it used too. Longer to pinn (lack of groups).

Longer to Cabal (either from lack of imm forwarding or the fact you can't even apply until pinn for the most part).

Longer to promo (I have hit E in EVERY CABAL except Syndi, and I have never had a char hit the year mark. Since the changes? 1, and it was because I put in close to 20 hours out of game coming up with ideas for and preparing everything for the carnival.

That's what I got, and I am still waiting RAAR to post *soon* a day later. I hope that he saw some nice arguements and is rethinking his position.

[Montahg]

What if there was a system in place for rare/unique equipment that was similar to losing con points for deaths?

For example, every 5 (or x) pks you get, you lose the ability to carry 1 rare, and similarly, every 5 (or x) pdeaths you take, you can hold an extra rare. I'm talking both in your inventory, and on your person. At this point, someone like Triathix would have about 0 rares/uniques, while someone who sucks at pk like I do, would have a full set, and thus the playing field would be closer to equal than previously.

So somebody with a record of 25-8 would hold a net total of 4 less rares.

[The End]

That is way to complicated and it doesn't even the edge, it takes it away.

It is not take make it EQUAL, but quite a bit more fair. Don't take away the edge they worked to get, just make it available to everyone equally.

p.s.

[ Avian ] Ineptus the Creator

Yeah...Not me either.

[Raargant]

That's what I got, and I am still waiting RAAR to post *soon* a day later. I hope that he saw some nice arguements and is rethinking his position.

That, or **** came up and he's busy.

[Malchaeius]

Busy? Blasphemy.