Non-illithid Necros?

[L-A]

I have pinned 3 necros in the past year, two of which where elders in cabals and two of which where illithid.

Illithid necro is the ONLY necro that can open with a stun. Ghouls touch plus "the not mentioned skill" can give 3-4 rounds of lag, throw in the inevitable bash/trip from zombies and golems and you have complete 100% lock down from start to finish. Other races have sleep but cannot open with a stun, plain and simple.

Sleep lands more often than YOU Think. Illithids have superior wisdom/int that lets their mental spells land harder, put them in savant with a certain power, tap a soul, and you already have a sleep that will be rarely resisted. With Stytnlye and Vorqwuith (the second in nexus not savant) I slept at leasy 3/4 of my foes and of those nearly 90% died wthout being able to move.

Next I bet your gonna say Powerword kill only works sometimes.

Now, necro's dont have to rely on sleep at all, but illithid necros can expect it to work more often.

You know what I see in your post? Sensationalism.

3-4 rounds on 'ilithid ability'/ghoul? I call BS. I'd need to be on the receiving end to believe that.

Sleep worked that much eh? Were you cherry picking targets? Because I can get those stats too if I single out ogre's and giant's to sleep. Try casting in on elves, drow, fae's and other squids and watch your sucess rate plummet even with your mighty illithid stats.

Powerword doesn't only work 'sometimes'?? What are you trying to say, you can get 100% kill rate on cast? I'll call BS on that - having killed with the spell in PK I know this isn't the case. Maybe you're only using it on sleeping ogre's again?

Soul tap doesn't afftect sleep's chances to land btw.

L-A

[Kyzarius]

You know what I see in your post? Sensationalism.

3-4 rounds on 'ilithid ability'/ghoul? I call BS. I'd need to be on the receiving end to believe that.

Sleep worked that much eh? Were you cherry picking targets? Because I can get those stats too if I single out ogre's and giant's to sleep. Try casting in on elves, drow, fae's and other squids and watch your sucess rate plummet even with your mighty illithid stats.

Powerword doesn't only work 'sometimes'?? What are you trying to say, you can get 100% kill rate on cast? I'll call BS on that - having killed with the spell in PK I know this isn't the case. Maybe you're only using it on sleeping ogre's again?

Soul tap doesn't afftect sleep's chances to land btw.

L-A

not trying to gain attention by stating that, but to illistrate where I get my info, and game experiences from in regards to the debate at hand. Where does yours come from?

No I didnt cherry pick anyone, you know as well as I (I am assuming you know) that when in a cabal you dont get to choose your enemies, they are chosen by affiliation. The only races that I have had consistent trouble landing sleep on are halfings and elves. Faes and other illithids have a better chance to save, but with the right gear/cabal power you dont have nearly as much trouble.

The issue is that people are debunking sleeps potency at 50, which is rather inaccurate. It is a very viable and works much more often than people are implying.

The second issue is that people are suggesting that other races when playing necros have as many advantages as an illithid over a sleeping opponent. This is incorrect. An Illithid can open with a stun that lasts 3 - 4 rounds when using Ghoul touch, 1 - 2 rounds without ghoul touch. The duration of the stun is partially detrmined by mental saves and spell level. ANy other race CANNOT open with a stun so the necro has to initiate combat with either murder or a spell both of which lag them just enough that the opponnent gets the opportunity to try and flee and enter commands.

Soul tap effects all mal's I believe sleep has a save for mental to land and a save for mal for duration, though I could be mistaken on that note. However on the cabal power and the light I know for a 100% fact the potency is increased in both duration AND chance to land.

[Lexi]

However on the cabal power and the light I know for a 100% fact the potency is increased in both duration AND chance to land.

Don't forget the ring. And the helm. But the helm you might not want to use.

EDIT:

Sleep is almost a certain kill if you land it, hence it is fairly easy to avoid it if you know what you are doing. Usually, I focus on saves, not being poisoned and that round of combat is pretty nice, but the drawback is it might land anyway.

EDIT2:

Most necros I've fought were either trying to land sleep or dispel magic, a slept opponent is at serious disadvantage, and zombies will start hurting if they can start tripping/bashing or sanc drops. Most necromancers are fairly one-dimensional, much like dark-knights they rely on massive damage output, and spells like plague/poison/weaken are usually only used if they actually manage to land sleep, and even then it is more important to ghoul touch/lagglock.

[Aulian]

A vuln that is only readily exploited in any real way by invokers or maybe good clerics.

Any weapons that exploit it are either very low av-dam, or rare as rare can be.

I can think of a weapon I've used to RAPE illithids before... Actually two now.

An exotic and a two handed spear.

Rare yes? But arent the best things in life?

Edit: Azun?

Edit2: PWK works, but you have to put in the prep or it wont.

edit3: Sleeping isnt the be all and end all of any fight. I have often run from being slept by a necro, it all comes down to player skill, skill selection and knowing where you are no matter if blind. Some prep in the potion and curatives department helps too.

[WarriorCleric]

I think the easy solution to combat the playerbase's inclination toward illithids as necromancers would be to add a weapon into the game that any class could use, but not make it so common that everyone can get it.

WC

[Anoneemus]

I think the easy solution to combat the playerbase's inclination toward illithids as necromancers would be to add a weapon into the game that any class could use, but not make it so common that everyone can get it.

WC

There's one of those. Almost two.

[Deykari]

I can't quite tell if this is WC's sarcasm again.

Dey

[WarriorCleric]

I can't quite tell if this is WC's sarcasm again.

Dey

WC

[Grim_Reefer]

I think both necromancers and illithids should be removed.

I think the race 'catties' (a race of large cat birds) and super-druids should be implemented.

I think the druid class should be renamed Jr00id.

I think I might play a Jr00id one day.

I think that there needs to be more shields.

I think that 90% of the people I have encountered going for qraces such as avatar, demon, or undead have ****ty *** rp.

I think that this mud is awesome.

I think I would like to buy it.

[KRins]

Is it bad that my nose and ears started bleeding when I read that last post? I think the word Jr00id gave me E. Bola...

[Anoneemus]

More Shields!!!

[Kyzarius]

necros should be able to take their zombies and combine them into one mega zombie!!

"zombie force COMBINE!!"

"zombie zor attack!"

[f0xx]

Rofl, that really made me laugh

[a-guitarist]

I'm down with Mega Zombie so long as WC and I get ef'n wonder twin powers, dammit!

a-g

[Grim_Reefer]

What the hell is a wonder twin?

[KRins]

You know...Wonder Twin powers activate! Form of (insert something random)! Shape of (something else random)! There is a Family Guy episode that spoofs it. There is a Robot Chicken sketch with the Olsen twins that spoofs it.

[goldbond]

Mega Zombie would be an absolutely delicious option for necros r4wR

ed- not saying that there's a thing wrong with ill-necs from the start, but what about mega-z's, available to non-ill necros due to their stumbly tentacle hands? like getting 3 drstams nets you a zombie that would do most any standard combat skill (the ones that matter), had pretty massive hp but no damage more than say a travern.

[Grim_Reefer]

I think mega-zombie rules.

[corpsestomp]

You know...Wonder Twin powers activate! Form of (insert something random)! Shape of (something else random)! There is a Family Guy episode that spoofs it. There is a Robot Chicken sketch with the Olsen twins that spoofs it.

Wonder Twin Powers Activate!

Form of...a hawk! Come on Peter!

Form of...(quietly)Janie's tampon. And now we wait.

[Twinblades713]

And now we wait.

It's, "And now we play the waiting game."

Sorry, it's an OCD kinda thing.