Cleave

[Iusedtobesomebody]

I remember watching Cirous cleave four people in half- in a half an hour.

Gave him the title 'the Dark Cleaver'.

[Deykari]

Sick.

Dey

[Murat]

I miss that one hit kill too.Back in 1.0 i did that a few times and I was amazed.

[Mudder]

It's like assassinate with much more style.

[goldbond]

there were so many crazy ways to die in 1.0. for example, a mob would attack you if they caught a plague off you. i remember dying a couple times just recalling plagued, and being attacked by the pit healer (who was attackable back then).

[Nekky]

NooB,

A very heavy non-rare axe can be found on the fire giant loggers in Elium Forest. It's called a double bedded axe and it weighs much more than 35.

I always carry one in my backpack as my zerk in case I need to whip out a shield cleave here or there.

[Aulian]

It's like assassinate with much more style.

and no study... I want.

[NooB]

Aye Nekky thanks, ive found that one and another at the volcano thats just as heavy, it works well enough, cheers anyway.

[Celerity]

hey, you can still cleave people in half like the old dk cleave

just a different skill now

[Mudder]

hey, you can still cleave people in half like the old dk cleave

just a different skill now

And it doesn't work like the old cleave either. It's just a cooler way of showing text without the real "assassinate" effect.

[Celerity]

Actually, you don't actually have to die for it to 'change' the text like that, just be low enough on hp--but enough on that! !!

[EyeSeeU]

hey, you can still cleave people in half like the old dk cleave

just a different skill now

And by the Gods it is amazing when it happens! I have only done it once in pk the "new way".

[tassinvegeta]

I've always liked cleave because it adds a more dangerous factor to dk's (which they should have). But due to the difficulty of switching weaponry in the midst of combat and the skills' low percentage of success of an actual hit I would so much more love to have charge instead. So many times as Darrien, Drayson and Waojin would I have loved to have charge instead of cleave. In my battles against mages and esp healing communers have caught on to this and realize that I have absolutely no way to lag them. Knowing this they play incredibly passive just long enough to where my unholy strength or charm person expires.

[f0xx]

Well, what other chance of fighting do they have? Outdamaging you perhaps?

Charge instead of cleave would be a bit of an overkill I think, perhaps raise a bit the success rate and lower the damage of cleave, but a skill that lags for 2 rounds against a dual malform wielding DK + warlock is A LOT of pain.

[EyeSeeU]

Cleave Works Fine!!!!!!

[tassinvegeta]

Well, what other chance of fighting do they have? Outdamaging you perhaps?

Charge instead of cleave would be a bit of an overkill I think, perhaps raise a bit the success rate and lower the damage of cleave, but a skill that lags for 2 rounds against a dual malform wielding DK + warlock is A LOT of pain.

Do not underestimate the melee capabilities of a cleric.

Secondly I've seen other muds where dk's are similar to ours but with slight differences. One being charge which didn't seem to bring forth any unbalancing issues over there.

Thirdly you make it sound as if dual malforms are easily obtained. What about those dk's that spend a huge about of their time without them? That is if they can even obtain them. All the while getting picked about by patient communers using a simple strat.

I see a skill that isn't that tactically practical(and for good reason) and could be easily replaced by a skill that would cover one of their vulnerabilities which I believe is a silly one.

[Mudder]

DK's have the maledictive arsenal to combat this type of communer attrition. You should be tapping into that a bit more. Then you can worry about lagging them as you are chasing them.

[tassinvegeta]

Hmm with dk's casting at a lower lvl than shamans and facing communers whom should have at least -40 to -50 saves that can also heal most mals Its difficult for me to see this slow strat taking affect before your buffs expire.

[Celerity]

Some mals can't be cured, as you well know...especially one key one that makes it hard to run around--and lucky for you, malforms will probably even help you out

I do think DKs have some problems...but I don't think that lag is one of them.

DKs are probably the second best laggers in the game (besides a necro--maybe an enlarged giant-size warrior/zerk (if the dk isn't big)?)

What do DKs with their malforms actually fear? A very decked warrior/ranger? A strong blm? A shaman maybe?

I daresay malforms are unbalanced. *gasp*

but, they work because DKs are much too weak without them. A DK is either much too strong or much too weak...any class based on in-game eq and mobs will always be out of balance (warriors and necros anyone?)

here is a thread with a lot of suggestions for dks--maybe it should be revived:

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=440&page=4&highlight=aggressive

Start with raar's post...he is right on track (even a year and a half later--shows how much they changed ) - melinda's idea about malform is quite good too I think (less strong but easier to get - dk's need a boost and good pker's don't)

[mya]

I prefer Cleave to charge.

Here is why:

- Weapon damage factors in vulnerabilities. Charge does not.

So, grab a Fire Polearm and start cleaving Ferals

I remember a Undead complain that Drayson Cleave killed him in 1 hit.

The special sleep effect is not supposed to happen always, it is a rare Bonus of about 1/10 chance.Mya.tm.

Regular rules apply with Heavy two handed axes, with enlarged High STR characters.

Any questions regarding intention direct them to Viri, as it was him who changed it in the first place.

ALSO:

Good Cleric are the premium class to fight Dark Knights.

With:

-Isolate

-Lag immunity

-Silence

-Blind

-Shrink

-Slow

A pity no one plays them anymore.

[Celerity]

I remember a Undead complain that Drayson Cleave killed him in 1 hit.

yeah...that was me...but everyone at that time had avg 35(or whatever) wrath weapons of Saruk slaying

I still like the idea of an undead necro tribunal...just picked the real wrong time for it!

[Mudder]

avg 38, actually.

[tassinvegeta]

Some mals can't be cured, as you well know...especially one key one that makes it hard to run around--and lucky for you, malforms will probably even help you out

I do think DKs have some problems...but I don't think that lag is one of them.

DKs are probably the second best laggers in the game (besides a necro--maybe an enlarged giant-size warrior/zerk (if the dk isn't big)?)

What do DKs with their malforms actually fear? A very decked warrior/ranger? A strong blm? A shaman maybe?

I daresay malforms are unbalanced. *gasp*

but, they work because DKs are much too weak without them. A DK is either much too strong or much too weak...any class based on in-game eq and mobs will always be out of balance (warriors and necros anyone?)

here is a thread with a lot of suggestions for dks--maybe it should be revived:

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=440&page=4&highlight=aggressive

Start with raar's post...he is right on track (even a year and a half later--shows how much they changed ) - melinda's idea about malform is quite good too I think (less strong but easier to get - dk's need a boost and good pker's don't)

You have a point in regards to that single spell helping the dk out in this instance. But I've not had any good experiences using mal's on communers with even basic protection from mals.

But as far as DKs being the second best laggers? I disagree with that entirely. It's been in my experience that the bash for nearly each non-qrace choice for the dk is ineffective. Therefore they must rely on there charmie for lag which isn't as reliable as you probaby think. Necros can have 3 charmies that bash therefore making that probability go up 3x. Warriors/Berserkers can bash and charge any time they want and don't have to rely on probability. And there are also monks whom are obviously the best laggers out there.

Though maybe you're right and the charge lag isn't the problem here. But for a class that is meant to fight within a certain window should have the tools to make sure it happens (i.e. vampires/thieves/ninjas) , especially considering the difficulty of gaining malforms. Maybe they simply need a boost to their spell lvl's? I can see this solving alot of there problems.

[Mudder]

But as far as DKs being the second best laggers? I disagree with that entirely. It's been in my experience that the bash for nearly each non-qrace choice for the dk is ineffective. Therefore they must rely on there charmie for lag which isn't as reliable as you probaby think.

I disagree with this entirely. From my experience, a DKs bash is the exact same as a warriors bash. Which, yes, misses more than it should. However it also lands a good amount of the time. Dislike the size disadvantage of "average" sized races? Eat a venom sack. Warlock bashing unreliable? No way. I've had a Warlock hold me completely lagged for 10 rounds. Unable to do a SINGLE thing for 10 rounds. Sometimes it takes a round or three to begin bashing, but when it does... It is relentless.

Add to that the DK can cast spells when the warlock bashes, then bash himself when the warlock lag wears off. Yes, there is a chance the DK will miss his bash.. However after playing a Stone Warrior (who often enlarged himself) I will say my DK lagged far better and more reliable than the warrior.

I do agree that a DKs mals should be cast at a higher level. Plague/poison are almost pointless in trying to use at 50. Though when I said mals, those are not what I meant. And me and Celerity were referring to more than just that single mal your thinking about.

EDIT: My DK also outlagged any monk. Monks are not the best laggers. They're only good at lagging the unlaggable... Because they're the only ones that can.

[tassinvegeta]

I disagree with this entirely. From my experience, a DKs bash is the exact same as a warriors bash. Which, yes, misses more than it should. However it also lands a good amount of the time. Dislike the size disadvantage of "average" sized races? Eat a venom sack. Warlock bashing unreliable? No way. I've had a Warlock hold me completely lagged for 10 rounds. Unable to do a SINGLE thing for 10 rounds. Sometimes it takes a round or three to begin bashing, but when it does... It is relentless.

Add to that the DK can cast spells when the warlock bashes, then bash himself when the warlock lag wears off. Yes, there is a chance the DK will miss his bash.. However after playing a Stone Warrior (who often enlarged himself) I will say my DK lagged far better and more reliable than the warrior.

I do agree that a DKs mals should be cast at a higher level. Plague/poison are almost pointless in trying to use at 50. Though when I said mals, those are not what I meant. And me and Celerity were referring to more than just that single mal your thinking about.

EDIT: My DK also outlagged any monk. Monks are not the best laggers. They're only good at lagging the unlaggable... Because they're the only ones that can.

When I was talking about the unreliable dk bash I was talking about giant vs non-giant bash. And if you're telling me that even with an enlarge sack you can land more than couple bashes in a row against a giant warrior, mounted paladin, high ac thief/ninja/druid/blm than I'd think you must've played one lucky dk because I've had tons of them and I have learned only religiously use bash anymore if at all. True the Warlock has been known to bash for an incredibly long time but usually its to myself when I fail a charm or in very rare instances. I can probably remember twice per character where its lagged for over 5 rounds.

I find it very interesting you believe your enlarged stone warrior to be able to bash more effectively and reliably than an enlarged dk with warlock. I'm pretty sure my opponents would agree that Lamah, Zebb, Zehava were much better at it than Darrien, Waojin, Drayson.

Yes I was referring to veil of darkness but it seems like you're saying silence/plague/poison/energy drain will help to pin down an overly evasive communer? Or did I misread what you and Celerity were trying to say?

Monks not the best laggers? Sorry if I offend but It seems like you haven't been playing here if you believe that. They can lag the laggable just as well as the unlaggable. I've 60 rounds of lag to prove they can lag better than any other class in the game. And many more have complained about the monks lagging capabilities to the point of where they won't even play their chars because they aren't able to enter a single command.