What's with this?

[Twinblades713]

Everywhere I turn, ganging happens. Is it a new fad? Is there any practical purpose? Just too tough? Anyone have pride? I'm not enthused. I don't know if it's good or bad that this is how it is, but it's not any one person. I won't, but I can easily name four or five characters that cannot seem to leave two people to fight. Sure. Legality. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. "It's my rp" no. It's what YOU want to do. Everyone knows one can rp to any end they want. If I'm a scourge cleric, and evil as can be but I want to have class and I don't want to have to full loot this dude I killed, then I can make up a reason why I didn't feel like full looting. (that scenario was for purely explanatory reasons. No truth.) The reasons have been terrible and I'm tired of it. I'm not denoting any specific cabal, or any specific person. I know there are members in multiple cabals it happens with. I don't mind 2v2, or hell, 3v2, but certain things that everybody knows is crappy, well, just let it go and work around it.

"Hey eff you Twinblades",

Yes, that may be, but just think about it. There are ways to enrich the game, and there are players and characters that enrich the game. Find your way to enrich the game. On a side note, props to you players who actually DO try to throw some rp into combat to make it more interesting. I know I appreciate it.

"I can play however I want."

Yes, you can. But it makes other people enjoy playing less if you decide to play certain ways. I've done my best to make my most current as classy (actionwise, trashtalk is obligatory) as I can, but I as a player am having difficult just "pushing through and ignoring it"

"Whiner."

No, a regular player who wants to enjoy the game, and knows that I am not unreasonable. I'm not enjoying the game, so I'm going to cool off and take a break.

[Zrothum]

This needs to be, and I think it is being, handled in game.

[Twinblades713]

That's all fine and well. But I think it brings a little bit more reality to the situation when it's not Anume telling you through a screen, but when you realize there are other people playing.

I know it came across as rant-ish, and I was in rant mode, but I hope it was a little less brutish than some rants, and a little more explanatory than spouting anger.

[Zrothum]

Ironic how similar the evil chars complaints sound alot like the good chars complaints about the torments.

[Twinblades713]

Ironic how similar the evil chars complaints sound alot like the good chars complaints about the torments.

I personally think the torments are BS. But such is life. One of the points to that is this: Players are players. Torments are not. Players can choose. Torments can not.

[Zrothum]

Yes...and I have yet to see a player CHOOSE to back off when the torments gang and rape the goods. Instead they persist and go after them. If you dont want to be ganged....dont gang. I will give Perniciant props though, cause he did seem to kind of back up off me in the Chasm sometimes and go for the Standard and leave me to the torments. It goes both ways. The torments are no joke man, a MASSACRE through sanc and prot if you don't nail the save. Plus their uber lag and chase. Melee isn't all that bad either...and they can find you 2-4 at a time sometimes.

[Twinblades713]

If you dont want to be ganged....dont gang.

First of all, I did not specify a demographic. I said it happens -everywhere- and I did not lie.

Second of all, I disagree with the concept. Not "if you don't want to be ganged" just, I'm going to be a broken record and repeat that it comes to choice. If everybody stopped thinking about retribution then everyone would have a better time. Sure, full looting happens. That's not crappy at all. But, (and this hasn't happened either, just an example) but when/if you full loot a pinnacled char in mithril and sacrifice his onyx rings, think about it. That does no good for anyone, it does not keep him from "coming back"-which I know is a legitimate reason to kill someone for cabal warfare- and you need to admit to yourself that you want someone to feel the burn to get your own jollies. To those people I say this: That's not fun, it's not classy, and there are better ways to enjoy the game.

Let me use a recent example. Triathix. Dude was beastly. Dude tore me apart multiple times. Dude even looted me a couple of times. Never did multikill me needlessly. Never did he loot my blue bracers. Never did he cp farm me. He played as he should, and even though I was dead alot, I still learned, each time I fought him, and it was a pleasure never getting close to pking him.

[f0xx]

Heh, I do agree with your gripe Twinblades, especially with this thing you said: "Just because you can doesn't mean you should. "It's my rp" no. It's what YOU want to do."

Everyone can get RP justification for EVERYTHING they do ingame. The point is, why? Why do you feel proud because of someone's misery? I thought that is a bulgarian characteristic mostly, but now I see it happens worldwide.

I remember when Festy was striking fear with his TRIB PSI and got me to log off a few times and I know he knew that I was pooping my pants everytime I was fighting him. Then one day, we fought and I won, but not because I did exceptionally good, but because he let me win. From that day I was no longer logging off when I saw him in the lands even though he kept walking over me. That is when you know that the player on the other side has class and that is when you respect him.

But you must remember that no matter what you do, you will still get some trash. I remember fighting a warmaster with my savant some time ago (warmasters had 5 members and I was alone in savant at that time). So I manage to kill him and get his weapons, couple of other rare wares which grant him a lot of saves and his backpacks. He returns to his corpse and starts flaming me about how I looted him and how this wasn't needed...

I have one rule when I am about to PK (sometimes I break it because of instinct but noone is perfect) and it is - treat others the way you want to be treated. Someone is fighting another person, leave them finish then engage. If someone is decked and you kill him, full loot. If someone has basics and you kill him, get weapon, shield and backpack. No matter what class you play those rules can be applied.

[Nightmare_from_hell]

Ugh... if there's one thing I hate losing, it's my backpacks Having to go and scrounge up all of those consumables erks me more than losing any equipment cuz I can usually find a few friends who will get me decently suited again rather quickly but I can only move so quickly back and forth to get those consumables back.

Ganging is not cool by any means. I can see the evils right now probably getting the shorter side of this simply because the goodies (or those who haven't taken the mark) have about 12 hours for PK and then you get stomped by Torments. I am currently playing a goodie and I know for a fact several of the mark wearers will not even attack you until you are caught outside during the night. I've seen it several times with my own char, though I also understand that it is quite the advantage to have when I am attempting to PK someone and I get corrupted by 5 torments at once (which happened recently) and bashed 5 times which brought my hp at that time below 100hp all the way from my max before I could flee/recall.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that I can see it from both sides, have had it happen to me on both sides, and it has always left me with a question of "How was that any fun for any of us?" If I die to you one one one, a tip of the hat is in order, especially if it was a battle well fought, edge-of-the-seat intensity, or I make a foolish mistake and you capitalize one it. If I die to you because I'm playing a faerie thief and you have a Fire Giant Zerk, an Evil Monk, and a Ranger all attacking me in a group, then there most definitely would not be kind words being sent to the imms via IG note and Prayer Forum.

[Iusedtobesomebody]

Take it as a compliment...

... then con-death them when you get them alone.

[Deykari]

I don't mean this in a whiny sort of way, but as an observation, I've seen so much more of this in recent times (past couple months).

Whilst 'trash' behaviour (a term I always use loosely, I think I'm very tolerant as a player) has always existed in some way, shape or form, and IS legal, there is a limit where play borders from 'unfair/trashy' to 'punishable' and it's up to the players to determine fairly where this line is, and report the latter. If you are being treat in a way that is really crossing the line, if you don't report it then more fool you.

However (and this is not directed at anyone), I'm sick and tired of people that will jump someone and loot them, and then complain when the victim takes revenge and start calling ganging. Generally speaking, I have always tried to remain the 'better player' in the sense that I'd only ever resort to ganging or multikilling if the situation -really- warranted that sort of behaviour and the victim really deserved it, even if they did treat me a bit crappy. I am now seeing a very slight increase in this 'gang culture' and I'm not talking about the accidental, one-off situations where you fight player X and player Y accidently attacks unaware.

What I'm trying to get at is, I, as a player, am finding it harder and harder to remain fair in my judgement sometimes when I know that I'm going to be treat less fair in return. In short, I am now just taking matters into my own hands. If you want to gang me, that's fine. I have no problem with that, and never have. Just don't start whining when I don't give you the courtesy of mercy and just slamlock/hellstream/whatever whilst you're fighting someone else. I am a very reasonable player, and understand that I may be ganged accidently, and that sort of thing. What I'm talking about, is going vigilante on people that consistently over an extended period of time, treat me less fair.

Am I just adding to the 'problem'? Maybe, but when a certain amount of 'trashy' play is legal, then people can only expect the victims to adopt a fair approach for a certain amount of time before they snap and start retaliating, if their efforts are going to be in vain and they're going to get trodden on.

Just to add...

- This is not a flame on the playerbase. It still is, and always has been, a tiny minority of my playtime that I have seen this, and besides, it's legal (within reason) and one of the dangers of playing here that adds fun and spice.

- Not a flame on the Immortals. These guys deal with complaints very quickly and efficiently, having seen it as both a player and an Imm. If you feel any behaviour towards you is really getting out of hand, report it.

In short, I think as long as it remains within the rules, it's fine - people just need to realise that they reap what they sow.

Dey

[Twinblades713]

Dey those are good points, but one of the main things I really, really wanted to convey is the point that I really don't want a dichotomy of groups where we have gangers and "tattletales". Yes, it's legit to tell imms when stuff is up but as I've said in previous posts and I'll keep saying it until it sinks in, all of you who play this game: YOU HAVE A CHOICE. You have the power to make the right choice that will involve good times had for all. It's up to you. You can slip by on the sidelines of classiness, getting yours and wearing that pimp suit, or you can wait it out, take your turn, not full loot that guys mithril, whatever. I want to make a connection to everyone who reads this, hopefully in an optimistic light. Think about what you're gonna do. Maybe pull back on your impulsiveness to jump that guy that's getting pinned down and gangbanged by those torments. Or if you do decide to munch him, for God's sake, do you think you've earned his equipment?

If I can get to -one- person in the pbase that maybe had these kind of problems before, and that person enriches the game more than he/she had before, I'm glad I've been posting.

Cheers to you all.

[Calron]

I haven't had a character at pinn in a while, so I'm simply replying in a general sense since I haven't really been in the fray at all lately.

However, I just want to point out that while ganging is not considered classy/admirable/whatever, it is still a part of the game (and for a reason). Yes, multiple people have said that already. But I just want to throw out for the sake of some of the newer (in a loose sense, as in not old) players that there was not always as significant of a stigma surrounding such.

If you do get ganged, unless it is an absolutely ridiculous situation, its probably just something you should deal with via your RP and actions in the game. This is by no means a shot at you (in fact I agree with your opinion), but really you are just proffering your own opinion and stance toward the type of actions or gameplay as the way things should be. If a situation is really out of hand, a note to the gods is the usual course. A thread like this basically just presents your own opinion on how people should play as the correct way (and the type of gameplay in your discourse is not against the rules, so that is not quite true).

In the infinite number of times that I've been ganged while playing here, I've only reported it (whereby dealing with it OOC) a handful of times. And those were times where the ganging contradicted some sort of IC or RP principle, or some other rule (or was extremely out of hand). Otherwise, in my personal opinion, I don't see why you shouldn't just be dealing with it as your character.

[Deptore]

I haven't had a pinn for a while either but I'm getting close, and from what some of my friends that are there have told me I'm not going to like it as much as I used to. As far as my playing style goes I only gang if either a) I'm in a group and you attack a member or I'm a thief. As a thief I will blackjack someone who's fleeing or if they've just killed someone attack. I play dirty as a thief and while I don't attack with buddies beside me I use every cheap shot I can get in. With looting though I always take the weapons, backpack, gold and what equipment I need. If I don't need any but they've very good things I'll take them to sell or give to another gildie.

[Zrothum]

There's nothing wrong in the 50 range right now except alot of people crying. I didn't witness ANYTHING even CLOSE to "wrong" or "Trashy" except a few instances at or near a cabal altar. People just were not communicating and some crappy stuff happened. I don't think any rules were broken and I can't think of one player I knew @ 50 who intentionally went around trying to use numbers in their advantage. Did some people get ganged? Yea. It was the exception however, and not even close to being the rule. I saw and participated in countless PK fights 1v1 all over the map. Even while almost always dealing with a disadvantage due to the torments and other "perks" that Evils have coded into the game right now.

What you were most likely hearing, Deptore, were just some sour, upset people dealing with a situation that is NOT the norm @ 50. Please do not be discouraged at getting there and playing at that level.

[Deptore]

Oh I'm not, it's a shame I won't get to fight you though

[Twinblades713]

Stuff

I'm not taking an opposition to you, (You said it yourself, that you agree) and I know it's there for a reason. But that's why I tried to shift the idea of my posts towards a more broad aspect. I don't expect to change the game or how it's been played forever, but I do know that, for a fact, I have changed my IG actions with every character I play to help others to enjoy it more. I've noticed, that with my evil characters, I've killed someone and still made them feel better I used to do.

You can talk trash but veil compliments inside to maintain your rp. "You will die each and every time you fight me, but you are strong and know that it makes me stronger". Here, you just told your opponent that they've made you a better player and that they have some value, while still rp-ly maintaining a rude "evil" type persona. "You're pathetic and you'll never amount to anything." Legitimate trash talk, and sure it gets a point across, but it brings nothing of value to the person, and will most likely only make them feel ****ty oocly. (Everyone trashtalks, this is just an example of how one -might- make FL a better environment) This does not mean I'm gonna baby everyone, or be a pansy and let people live. But there are always ways to cause all to have a good time, or perhaps feel less bad, (for lack of a more tactful way to say it) about a death. Crappy looting is unnecessary, ganging, for the most part is unnecessary. Sure, rply if that HUGE undefeatable mofo that's wrecking everyone and anyone. Maybe tag team him, but the kind of stuff that's been going on, I know we can do better.

[Zrothum]

Just wait until evils don't have all these nice "perks" Malchaeius has given them during this plot....my next char, which most likely will be another Knight....will be even better than this one. On many different levels.

Oh I'm not' date=' it's a shame I won't get to fight you though [/quote']

[Deptore]

I don't play an evil right now, mostly for the fact that I didn't want the added help from all their perks. If I'm going to get back in the swing of the game I don't want a crutch to lean on and get used to.

[Zrothum]

Eh, the perks aren't really anything buff (minus the torments) and mainly apply to qraces....don't be discouraged about playing an evil.

Just when you get two equally skilled players fighting each other 1v1...torments and buffs can definitely make a big difference.

[Deptore]

Oh yeah, personally I think they should only attack lvl 40+. With them attacking a lvl 30 your lvl 30 qrace/class wannabes have it pretty easy pk wise.

[Zrothum]

Personally I think they should remain the way they are, but be extremely toned down. You can get the point across in this plot without having these things bash/trip/demon_skill like crazy and chase like crazy and attack in numbers.

[Ali_gmud]

I like ganging and being ganged, it adds alot more fun to the game but when you get ganged and full looted, that's when it's a little depressing.

[mya]

Just wait until evils don't have all these nice "perks" Malchaeius has given them during this plot....my next char' date=' which most likely will be another Knight....will be even better than this one. On many different levels.[/quote']

Yo going to roll a Faerie Knight thief ?

[Zrothum]

I've been thinking about a Praetorian Blademaster. In all honesty though....I will probably go with another Paladin. The next q-something I try will be a Lich or a Psi.....or I could try for a Demon Battlemage I guess.....still have unfulfilled issues with that one. :-)