for those that care.

[Iusedtobesomebody]

Time will tell if Americans were stupid or not. I voted for McCain, but will support Obama because that's what you do for your President.

Of course, I will continue to second guess and mock all his decisions like I have done with everyone than sat before him.

[Questioner]

For the military personnel out there, Obama is our Commander in Chief, whether we like it or not. But he still has a lot to prove before I EVER think he was a better candidate than McCain.

Being able to say that you will do something is completely different from actually caring out the action. Enough said.

[Aulian]

There are ignorant idiots on both sides. The country's stupid. Get over it. Or better, support legislation that invests in schools so that the country gets LESS stupid.

Thats something I can agree on.

[Djriacen]

...Ron Paul 08?

[delfytheelfy]

I certainly agree that there is a bit of mania about him' date=' but that's what happens when a smart, charismatic person steps onto the political stage in a bad time and offers hope for better. [/quote']

NOT to put Obama with Hitler or anything but..... lolz

It's just the way you said that sentence.

[Pali]

NOT to put Obama with Hitler or anything but..... lolz

It's just the way you said that sentence.

The two do have a bit in common... both intelligent, both incredible orators, both relatively young, charismatic, both of humble beginnings, both rising on promises to fix society's ills... of course, I'm fairly certain Obama'll go about doing so (attempting to, anyways) in quite different ways.

[Jairoth]

To list Obama's oratory skills even close to being on par with Hitler is far from accurate, in my opinion. Hitler had a gift and though Obama may be a fair bit better at public speaking than alot of current US politicians *cough*Bush*cough*Mccain*cough*....its not saying much.

A little off topic, but relevant to those crying Socialism...Mein Kampf is a great read for anyone who hasn't turned a few pages of it yet. The beginning is a little slow, I thought...but once you get out of his childhood (although it kind of shows where alot of his ideas began to sprout from) and into his adolescence, it gets to be rather intriguing.

[delfytheelfy]

omg yeah that is a very GREAT read, but a friend tells me it's really like whole different book from the German version.

[Jairoth]

Unlesss I am mistaken, there are a couple different translations of the original for sale in English. Many things are lost in translation in not just books, but video games and movies as well. But unless you can read German (I can) then you really have to just settle for what you can get.

[HouselessRogue]

Which is a real shame' date=' and one of the great failings of the political climate in America. We need to get away from this two-party system very badly.[/quote']

EXACTLY! Parties are crap. No permanent solution to any problem will found on the far ends of the spectrum, especially when those ends hate the other end and fight incessantly.

I voted for Obama because of issues similar to Pali's. I believe in separation of church and state as well as equal rights for all men/woman. Our rights exist so long as they do not infringe on the rights of another. If two dudes get hitched, hey, whatever, my rights are not impeded. Churches should be allowed to not recognize the union but I do not see how the government should be allowed to do so. Also, Palin scares the crap out of me. As Matt Damon said, "It's like a bad disney movie where suddenly a soccer mom has keys to the white house and nuclear weapons". *Shudder* McCain is far to much like Bush for my taste. Along with the fact that Palin single handily destroyed McCain's hopes. My opinion at least. I do, however, agree that McCain's concession speech was very, very classy. Mad props for that.

I think a lot of the appeal of Obama stemmed from having Bush in office for 8 years. A charismatic, ARTICULATE gentleman. Wow... what a change of pace. As Pali said, he has a lot to prove. If he doesn't do the majority of what he says he will do he won't get my vote in 2012. We'll see...

[HouselessRogue]

To list Obama's oratory skills even close to being on par with Hitler is far from accurate, in my opinion. Hitler had a gift and though Obama may be a fair bit better at public speaking than alot of current US politicians *cough*Bush*cough*Mccain*cough*....its not saying much.

A little off topic, but relevant to those crying Socialism...Mein Kampf is a great read for anyone who hasn't turned a few pages of it yet. The beginning is a little slow, I thought...but once you get out of his childhood (although it kind of shows where alot of his ideas began to sprout from) and into his adolescence, it gets to be rather intriguing.

Hitler wasn't just standing on a stage and speaking either. The Germans used so many tricks and props that it was more of a show than a speech. Wait... doesn't FL have a resident Nazi? Perhaps we can get some enlightenment from there.

[delfytheelfy]

Hitler wasn't just standing on a stage and speaking either. The Germans used so many tricks and props that it was more of a show than a speech. Wait... doesn't FL have a resident Nazi? Perhaps we can get some enlightenment from there.

But he was.. alot of what he did was exactly how OUR elections go... He was on a stage speaking to groups of people at a time...

[delfytheelfy]

double post

[Pali]

To list Obama's oratory skills even close to being on par with Hitler is far from accurate' date=' in my opinion.[/quote']

I never said they were equal, I said that it was something they had in common... Obama may not be the best speaker ever, but he IS a pretty damned good one.

EDIT:

But he was.. alot of what he did was exactly how OUR elections go... He was on a stage speaking to groups of people at a time...

Yes, but the modern political landscape in America doesn't allow a politician to try to rile crowds up the way Hitler did. Speaking with a lot of anger and passion would've killed Obama's chances because people watching at home on TV would've thought him too unstable. Hitler didn't have TV ads that would dissect his every word that the entire country would then hear to worry about.

[Jairoth]

I never said they were equal, I said that it was something they had in common... Obama may not be the best speaker ever, but he IS a pretty damned good one.

A decent public speaker being compared to one of the best public speakers in history isn't exactly having something in common, in my opinion. It's like getting average grades compared to a 4.0 gpa. Is Obama a cut above most US politicians in the limelight these days in regards to public speaking? Sure...but it's not really saying much.

Wasn't trying to pick apart your statement, just voicing my opinion that Obama, while good compared to most US politics, doesn't hold a candle to Hitler in terms of public speaking.

[Jairoth]

Yes, but the modern political landscape in America doesn't allow a politician to try to rile crowds up the way Hitler did. Speaking with a lot of anger and passion would've killed Obama's chances because people watching at home on TV would've thought him too unstable. Hitler didn't have TV ads that would dissect his every word that the entire country would then hear to worry about.

I don't see a difference between motivating huge audiences in this scenario (with exception to the TV ads).

Obama had the opportunity to do what Hitler did, but with hope and passion. Not with "anger and passion" as you described Hitler's tools.

I think you are confusing the fact that Obama is a GOOD public speaker with the natural gift that Hitler had for it. We are so used to seeing horrible public speaking from our nation's politicians that when someone who can form a complete sentence and show a little emotion doing it comes along, we think he's the best thing since sliced bread. Obama is more of a bandwagon whilst Hitler is a legend.

Hitler was around during a time of other good public speakers. Mussolini wasn't too bad himself. But Hitler stood out.

Obama is semi-pleasant to listen to....but if Hitler is incredible...Obama is good. I don't think they both fit under the same umbrella is all.

[delfytheelfy]

I never said they were equal, I said that it was something they had in common... Obama may not be the best speaker ever, but he IS a pretty damned good one.

EDIT:

Yes, but the modern political landscape in America doesn't allow a politician to try to rile crowds up the way Hitler did. Speaking with a lot of anger and passion would've killed Obama's chances because people watching at home on TV would've thought him too unstable. Hitler didn't have TV ads that would dissect his every word that the entire country would then hear to worry about.

toshea(sp?)

[Twinblades713]

toshea(sp?)

touche? (accent over 'e')

[Pali]

Obama had the opportunity to do what Hitler did' date=' but with hope and passion. Not with "anger and passion" as you described Hitler's tools.[/quote']

I'd say he did do that.

I think you are confusing the fact that Obama is a GOOD public speaker with the natural gift that Hitler had for it. We are so used to seeing horrible public speaking from our nation's politicians that when someone who can form a complete sentence and show a little emotion doing it comes along, we think he's the best thing since sliced bread. Obama is more of a bandwagon whilst Hitler is a legend.

Unfortunately I do not speak a word of German, so I can't listen to a Hitler speech and get the most out of it, so it's hard for me to truly compare the two.

Hitler was around during a time of other good public speakers. Mussolini wasn't too bad himself. But Hitler stood out.

We are all judged against our peers. Judging someone's accomplishments or talents against history is pointless, because historical figures all too often become legends and unreachable (it'll be a long time before someone's considered as smart as Einstein, or as great a composer as Bach, or as good a writer as Shakespeare). Obama has to be judged against those who are HIS peers, and as you yourself said, in that light he shines brightly.

Obama is semi-pleasant to listen to.

I'd say he's considerably more than semi-pleasant to listen to. Speeches rarely get any reaction out of me, but there are a few of his I've watched a number of times because I'm amazed at the emotions they pull out in me.

Quite frankly, this entire argument is pointless and entirely subjective. EDIT: Scratch that. My guy won. I'm done talking politics for... three years now.

[Pali]

By the way, in regards to this sentiment expressed earlier:

Seriously, college students are some of the worst voters ever.

Apparently, they didn't matter anyways. This article at MSNBC shows that even if nobody under 30 had voted, Obama would've won.

So you can't blame those crazy college kids for it. You CAN, however, blame black voters... without them, he'd have lost.

[Aulian]

What does president 'elect' mean?

[Pali]

He's not actually the President yet. He's the guy who has been elected to be President in the next term of office. Hence, President-elect.

[Ex-D&Der]

Obama is probably the best presidential candidate to come along since John F. Kennedy. McCain is the worst Republican candidate to come along since Bob Dole. Both were aging war veterans wounded in combat who felt the country owed them the oval office. Both proposed a program of tax cuts originally developed by supply siders whose approach wasn't effective when Reagan tried it and still requires sticking your head in the sand to think that it works. The deficit is exploding, the economy is tanking, and meanwhile we're involved in a war we never should have started in the first place. Bush is probably the worst president in history, and McCain is broadly similar, without the charisma. And if you're going to compare anyone to Hitler, it should be the aggressive war launching, civil liberties shredding, hate arousing nudnik in the White House.

The only thing about McCain that impressed me in this campaign is that he didn't do what he had to do to win, which is appeal to racism. I do respect him for that.

[Aulian]

Obama is probably the best presidential candidate to come along since John F. Kennedy. McCain is the worst Republican candidate to come along since Bob Dole. Both were aging war veterans wounded in combat who felt the country owed them the oval office. Both proposed a program of tax cuts originally developed by supply siders whose approach wasn't effective when Reagan tried it and still requires sticking your head in the sand to think that it works. The deficit is exploding, the economy is tanking, and meanwhile we're involved in a war we never should have started in the first place. Bush is probably the worst president in history, and McCain is broadly similar, without the charisma. And if you're going to compare anyone to Hitler, it should be the aggressive war launching, civil liberties shredding, hate arousing nudnik in the White House.

The only thing about McCain that impressed me in this campaign is that he didn't do what he had to do to win, which is appeal to racism. I do respect him for that.

Dude bush doesnt have charisma, the entire world thinks the mans an idiot.

[A Poet's Blade]

Thank you Aulian. I read that statement and thought; " What Bush is he watching? "