Your Bane, My Bane...

[Mindflayer]

Nor will a smart ninja be blackjacked. Which is exactly my point... if both are smart' date=' both can counter many of the other's skills, and what's left leaves them pretty even.[/quote']

But with traps and steal, it is still easier to get the blackjack off against the ninja.

[Pali]

But with traps and steal' date=' it is still easier to get the blackjack off against the ninja.[/quote']

And with study and assassinate, the ninja wins the waiting game, so he's got no need to rush in and hit said traps.

[Mindflayer]

Envenom those daggers and rush the ninja, that stops that tactic. If he's not poisoned for studying, blackjack.

[Pali]

As we already continued the discussion over AIM, I shall not rehash it here.

[myrek]

Yes' date=' and I can see a smart thief getting bashlocked by the first warrior/zerk wandering by and seeing a thief in the open becaue he's poisoned. [/quote']

That is probably the best post in the thread. I think the smaller population may have spoiled some people. When you are getting ready to attack or trying to defend against one, you have to worry about all PKs, not just the lout that you're fighting this instant.

[Guest emp_newb]

Honestly, vs anything that does not have counter I tended to rage alot faster, gives me that much more hp and damge so I can focus more on chase. Haymaker was basically useless for me as a Dev zerk, I can see how much nastier it is on an anger zerk, but I never play them. Anything that can use a shield, you need to keep blind, and focus on staying on them. I posted several of my Lmathr logs, you can see the different tactics I used, and which ones worked most effectively hehe.

Vs pallies, enlarged lag (except vs Ilendriel, that was the only pally that got I did not beat)

Vs casters rage and keep damage on

Vs melee blind haymaker chase

vs Hybrids Enlarged lag.

[L-A]

All sounds great on paper. But have you experiences with a successful char on either side of the playing field? I'd like to hear about them.

You're 100% - it sounds SO sweet on paper but is a tad trickier to do.

Had a fair bit of zerk experience (fg devasation, stone fury, werebeast anger and ogre anger) at lvl 50 with zerks. The sit and see if you outdamage before you do something works very well (dirt kicking at the start obviously). You can tell pretty fast if you need to change weapons or need a shield etc. I haven't played a blademaster at all - though most blms I've faced have zero idea what makes a zerk work either.

Specific vs blm I've never had to time the haymakers as I outlined - I used that more vs communers. Most blm's were overcome fairly easily by dual flails, hay and slam. It sounds trite, noob and kind of lame but you wouldn't believe how well it works if you bring even half your A-game. For example you can take out stance and sanc with a haymaker (it happens a fair bit, esp if you know what your doing with haymaker). Once that happens they are faced with a choice of putting up sanc or stance first. If you go the sanc you risk lag lock vs dual flails which is generally a losing proposition. If you go stance the zerks going to be unable to lag but will probably get 1 - 3 rounds on you unsanc'd which should make it unrecovereable. You'll have to run from this position and rest up. As the zerk chasing easier in this situation because mostly you're raged so you hit them when you walk in.

Blms that gave me problems were usually at a large equipment advantage and/or challenges (stone fury was WM) so I didn't use weaponcleave. Somewhere between 50% - 75% of better eq'd blms could be beaten with the addition of weaponcleave (one challenger thought he could tough it out gloves off and had to hide after losing three weapons and getting beat within an inch of his life).

Equal equipment is a hard call which is why I say sit and see if you're up in straight melee. If not you may want to think about acquiriing eq to equal the blms.

It also depends on crit stirkes vs predict etc. Not having a good grasp of blms I won't speculate on blm strat but 80% of those I have fought relied on deathweaver/predict instead of critical strikes. IMHO, this is a losing strategy as you risk the haymaker scenario above.

The biggest danger is having to play hit and run with changing predicts/crit strike and acupuncture vs possible no-regen rage. Personally, I don't get into attrition battles to try to win. I either go the opposite way until they want to play or use haymakers to reduce their consumables/hope for a lucky slam win and bail at a very safe point.

L-A

[tassinvegeta]

You're 100% - Had a fair bit of zerk experience (fg devasation, stone fury, werebeast anger and ogre anger) at lvl 50 with zerks. The sit and see if you outdamage before you do something works very well (dirt kicking at the start obviously). You can tell pretty fast if you need to change weapons or need a shield etc.

Specific vs blm I've never had to time the haymakers as I outlined - I used that more vs communers. Most blm's were overcome fairly easily by dual flails, hay and slam.

For example you can take out stance and sanc with a haymaker (it happens a fair bit, esp if you know what your doing with haymaker). Once that happens they are faced with a choice of putting up sanc or stance first. If you go the sanc you risk lag lock vs dual flails which is generally a losing proposition. If you go stance the zerks going to be unable to lag but will probably get 1 - 3 rounds on you unsanc'd which should make it unrecovereable. You'll have to run from this position and rest up. As the zerk chasing easier in this situation because mostly you're raged so you hit them when you walk in.

Somewhere between 50% - 75% of better eq'd blms could be beaten with the addition of weaponcleave (one challenger thought he could tough it out gloves off and had to hide after losing three weapons and getting beat within an inch of his life).

It also depends on crit stirkes vs predict etc. Not having a good grasp of blms I won't speculate on blm strat but 80% of those I have fought relied on deathweaver/predict instead of critical strikes. IMHO, this is a losing strategy as you risk the haymaker scenario above.

The biggest danger is having to play hit and run with changing predicts/crit strike and acupuncture vs possible no-regen rage. Personally, I don't get into attrition battles to try to win. I either go the opposite way until they want to play or use haymakers to reduce their consumables/hope for a lucky slam win and bail at a very safe point.

L-A

I left out the extra stuff that you mentioned, L-A hope you don't mind, but what I left is very good information that can be used to help others during this type of matchup. Got anything for a necro vs a blm?

[Pali]

Vs pallies' date=' enlarged lag (except vs Ilendriel, that was the only pally that got I did not beat) [/quote']

Mwahahahahahaha! I am invincible!!!

[HouselessRogue]

For the record I never said a thief was the bane of ninja. I simply said that a ninja was not the bane of thieves. That's crazy talk.

[Pali]

For the record I never said a thief was the bane of ninja. I simply said that a ninja was not the bane of thieves. That's crazy talk.

Agreed. Both give each other trouble... which is why my ninjas usually try to keep all other ninjas/thieves at least with a non-agression pact.

[delfytheelfy]

After looking and calculating wouldn't a monk being a shamans bane?

[Twinblades713]

Bane of Shaman - Monk

[delfytheelfy]

whoops missed it

[Questioner]

Bane of all players:

Really strong player (a.k.a triathix, martineius, valadar, messalantha...funny how they are all evil or a vampire)

[delfytheelfy]

Tylith, Barnok, ....