What's Going On?

[Pracyntict]

Looking around at about 7:00 EST on a Saturday night reveals three players online? What the hell happened? Did MUDders start getting lives all of a sudden? I remember Friday and Saturday nights were PRIME TIME for MUD life when I was around. It wasn't strange to see 40 to 50 players online starting around 6:30 on Friday. When are the prime times now?

I know I'm an old man and I'm totally out of touch, so help me out here guys!

[Telufial]

meh.. i've only been back a month or so.. and i've never seen more than 15 people on.. but I reckon some of that is due to the fact most are home for the holidays, far from their dorm pc's

[f0xx]

We just lack players, you will VERY rarely see more than 15 players online....

[Ali_gmud]

I think it's been our problem for the last few months.

we need to hold some sort of event on our mud, some kind of PK tornament or sumthing to attract attention and put players from other muds skill against the players of this mud against one another.

could bring afew new faces, I would play alot more if there was more players to play with, but most of the time I log on

who group,

players, none

save

quit

[Iusedtobesomebody]

wives happen.

which limits my playing time.

[Pracyntict]

No, that's not it.

This MUD needs a website that is circa 2008, not circa 1999. This website needs WORK. You can't even connect to the forum correctly through the website.

What it needs, secondarily, is MARKETING help. Getting the name back out into the MUD world. It needs a real DNS entry, so you can connect to theforsakenlands.org:1848 or whatever, and have it connect, rather than having to know the IP address.

Then, lastly, it needs ACTIVE postings on all of the MUD community sites.

None of these things are especially hard to accomplish, and I'd be glad to help. What do you say, Imps? Care to let me take a stab at getting some more players?

[mya]

Mud structure is fine, still an top quality mud.

What happened is:

- Players do not vote.

- TMS ratings go down. Mud gets less exposure to new players.

- Website Offline, slight interested potential players do not perceive FL as a interesting mud.

- Less new players are feed into the mud.

- Old players grow up and play less or stop playing.

- Even less player base to vote.

- Mud appears empty.

- Old and NEW Players log in and feel alone, players log out and do other stuff. (Present)

- Mud appears even more empty. (Future)

- Mud dies. (Future)

At the current rate in 3 months things are going to look a lot scary.

What we can do to aid the mud ?

- Help increase the Mud exposure, in order to bring new blood.

[KRins]

I'll be honest... FL has gone from my primary game to my "I need a break from the other games" game. Yeah it offers things that other games don't, but it doesn't offer half of what the other games do. 15 players v. a couple million? All the information you could possibly need (if you do a little googling) v. "Harden up princess"? A maximum of 5 minutes before I'm back doing whatever I was doing after a death v. an hour or more to even consider competing? Most people don't value RP anymore, and those that do don't want to RP with a mob or risk getting killed for no good reason then still get no RP responses half the time. Yes I realize that silently "cleansing" your opponents is considered RP somehow... but you get what I'm saying.

[Guest emp_newb]

I have struggled with some of the same concepts you have KRins. Here is my response.

If you are not helping to fix the problem, are you part of it? Do you rp with everyone who talks to you? Do you silently pk? Do you full loot even when you do not need to, and are not fighting a hated enemy? Are you voting daily? Are you showing the obvious newbs what is what, and what you should not do?

If you answered Yes to any or all of those, your feeding into your own misery. Things happen because they become commonplace, when you accept it, and even act those out. You are feeding into the decline yourself. Keep a high standard, even if you do recieve what you hate. It does make a difference, it will matter, even if you do not see immediate returns on your investment. This game is like the stock market, not the lottery. You do not just win, you slowly observe, making strategic moves and placements for a better overall gain.

And harden up princess is never used on a newbie, it is usually used in a "this is overpowered" thread, or someone whining. If you have legitimate concerns you are almost never answered with "harden up."

[Zhokril]

I added "play.theforsakenlands.org" as an alternative to the IP address for connecting a few days ago.

[Celerity]

Yeah, the MUD has been this way for months (years??), continuing its slow, yet ever declining pace.

We need some radical change. The website is taking years to create and update. It could be done in a day if someone actually worked at it.

Follow the change log and you can easily see why PK is getting stale...we need to break from the idea of "balance" to exciting and expanding. Balance only stays fun if lots of new things are happening.

Speaking of balance and easy changes (that seem very very obvious to me), take a look at some of my old threads:

half-elves:

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11406

inventory sorting:

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14604

class exp rearrangement:

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14391

elf/drow fired weapons:

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7105

account system:

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9498

reputation system:

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7066

Easy changes for the most part!

-----

RP is not very fun without other players and very very low imm interaction.

Many small bonuses/interactions are much better than very rare large events.

For RP ideas, check this out:

Here we go for the third time...my computer has been shutting down too often lately!

I thought of a RP skill that FL has: Dice. It has no PK ability, but even this very simple RP skill does do a lot for FL.

Raar: RP award automation example would be the restring example in one of my previous posts.

Another would be the reputation revamp that I proposed awhile back (ex. fire giants and feral have a max reputation of BAD, so if a fire giant hunts feral a little bit, it drops down to awful very quickly, providing an automatic RP consquence for his actions)...but please keep it in the mindset of automated consquences! (not rewards/punishments---which have a very different connotation, as your gatekeeper example pointed out)

(http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/s...ead.php?t=7066) <-- reputation thread

Malch, if you take a look at my previous thread covering this same topic (http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/s...d.php?t=11681), you'll find this paragraph:

Quote:

This is why MUDs incorporate things like families (giving RP chars PK power--not only PC families, but NPC and gene-systems also), IC games, player economies, non-PK skills (making food, items, altering the game environment (ex. baking, animal-handling, mining, building, and so on)), player religions, and other things to do IC that don't always involve PK.

A very simple example of an RP skill would be to allow communers to construct their own holy symbols (hopefully with something a little more involved than co 'holy symbol'--a binding ritual or something). They would be flashy, take up the extra 'symbol' eq slot, and give absolutely no bonuses whatsoever (except for being an obvious faithful--could make it a requirement that communers need a holy symbol for level 30+ spells). Tattoos could be reformed in a similar way.

Another potential small rp system is the expanding quest system. More quests = more things to do!

Medium scale RP systems/skills would be for example creating homes (or crypts for necromancers! )--any number of minor systems could be based off that, including automated adventures (or even player-guided ones: assailable homes...it is so much cooler when the boss of the level is a PLAYER, imagine that!), retainers/vassals (mobs that do non-PK or defensive things) and so on.

Large scale RP systems could include the two examples I posted with links earlier, about laws (much better designed than FL's) and crafts respectively.

Anyone can easily search google to find out about potential RP skills.

Basically, the idea is to make a richer, more code-supported RP platform for the game (which should ultimately incorporate a healthy mixture of PK/RP).

Because PK has been developed for so long on FL, the more important thing is to give things for people to do, or aspire to do, that don't involve (or are completely based around) pking people (ex. cabals).

and these threads:

RPvsPK threads:

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12199

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11681

ninja titles:

http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12437

And the equipment system really needs an overhaul...There have been many suggestions, but I personally favor the equipment that has stat bonuses based on your class/race, so you never reach a god peak or super low against most combos. Would balance out many underdogs in the combo game too.

The HoF is very easy to update every month (literally a couple of minutes), but why isn't that done?

Of course attitude, from both players and staff. Mean players and a cold/condescending IMM staff (sometimes) drives people away very quickly.

And a million other small things that just don't seem to ever happen...

----

Check out our major competitors sometime and you can see why people leave here. Compare how much they have changed and developed in the last 4 years and how much we have changed...

----

While players can help slightly with this, the primary factor in the state of health of any MUD (fun, players, outlook) would be the top administrators. Behrens was a terrible administrator (rude and completely inactive/unskilled?) and is more than half the reason we went from a vibrant MUD to a dying one. What is the other half?

[A Poet's Blade]

I couldn't agree more with what Celerity has said. Though, I have no talent for coding and probably even less in an administrative position, but there are many among us that DO have these talents and are being ignored continually by the Staff.

I have met many players that are willing to code for FL, but it seems those that are in the position of coding are lackluster(no offense to anyone, just others are better at some regarding certain things) and refuse outside help due to pride or whatever. But whatever it is, it IS killing or maybe even HAS killed the MUD. I don't see how we can accept seven or so players as a successful MUD.

We go through staff members like they're skittles. Why? Either those that are selected just lack the commitment for the long haul, lose interest, or have something come up in real life.(which is understandable)Though, I haven't seen such a drastic change in staff members ever in the history of the MUD since V-Man left. And yes, when he left so did MANY of the players/old staff and that is sad to think about. Its upsetting that so many players so screw it when ONE man leaves. Behrens did his best, I'd like to think, but was just a poor coder, nothing to be ashamed of. Though, a good bye thread or whatever would have been appreciated.

Just my 2cents.

[KRins]

She's right... I'd almost rather play something lame like Maple Story because I know I can get what I want with effort and have fun. There is a whole lot of thumb twiddling waiting for rewards that may or may not come around here. Automation is the way of the future...and we've fallen behind. Outside of PK, there is nothing to do at 50. RP with a mob or play something else? Pretty easy decision...

We need something else to do. Literally anything in the quoted section of Celerity's post would be a drastic improvement to the current not a darn thing.

[Evangelion]

Perhaps some of the people who have been here for eight (coming up on NINE?!) years and can't/don't want to leave should be offered IMM positions. Or builder positions.

There's a lot of people who have a lot to offer this game that have been consistently deprived of the chance.

Also, welcome back Crypt. Good to see you again.

[Guest emp_newb]

She's right... I'd almost rather play something lame like Maple Story because I know I can get what I want with effort and have fun. There is a whole lot of thumb twiddling waiting for rewards that may or may not come around here. Automation is the way of the future...and we've fallen behind. Outside of PK, there is nothing to do at 50. RP with a mob or play something else? Pretty easy decision...

We need something else to do. Literally anything in the quoted section of Celerity's post would be a drastic improvement to the current not a darn thing.

Maple story? Your kidding right. This game is a completely different concept. You think Dedric, or Miscreant, or Kentry always had something to do at pinn? If you do not have something to do, write notes, write apps, train, show off, pk, rp with random mobs. One of the most realistic logs in the logs section is deykari rping with himself. Bottom line is if you do not entertain yourself, you cannot expect the imms to. They have alot to work on behind the scenes of what you see.

[Guest emp_newb]

I couldn't agree more with what Celerity has said. Though, I have no talent for coding and probably even less in an administrative position, but there are many among us that DO have these talents and are being ignored continually by the Staff.

I have met many players that are willing to code for FL, but it seems those that are in the position of coding are lackluster(no offense to anyone, just others are better at some regarding certain things) and refuse outside help due to pride or whatever. But whatever it is, it IS killing or maybe even HAS killed the MUD. I don't see how we can accept seven or so players as a successful MUD.

We go through staff members like they're skittles. Why? Either those that are selected just lack the commitment for the long haul, lose interest, or have something come up in real life.(which is understandable)Though, I haven't seen such a drastic change in staff members ever in the history of the MUD since V-Man left. And yes, when he left so did MANY of the players/old staff and that is sad to think about. Its upsetting that so many players so screw it when ONE man leaves. Behrens did his best, I'd like to think, but was just a poor coder, nothing to be ashamed of. Though, a good bye thread or whatever would have been appreciated.

Just my 2cents.

I notice in ALOT of threads that you are EXTREMELY negative and quick to point out flaws. So once again Ill pose this question to you.

Do you rp constantly? Are you playing your character, or letting your char live out his life? Are you suggesting options? Are you designing areas? Are you trying to keep the quality up with your own chars, both pk and rp? Or

have you fallen into that realm of people who refuse to believe that imms do not cause the decline of a mud, not when they are fair, and as interactive as these are? Or would it be safer to assume that the level 30 decked zerk who is randoming at will and looting without any explanation to the newb who is playing his first char?

If the mud is falling out, it is because people do not put the same effort they used to. How many of my response threads have gone this direction?

[Mali]

Everyone in this thread wants to be immortal, but who wants to live forever?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgK_keIJq-4

[Evangelion]

Maple story? Your kidding right. This game is a completely different concept. You think Dedric' date=' or Miscreant, or Kentry always had something to do at pinn? If you do not have something to do, write notes, write apps, train, show off, pk, rp with random mobs. One of the most realistic logs in the logs section is deykari rping with himself. Bottom line is if you do not entertain yourself, you cannot expect the imms to. They have alot to work on behind the scenes of what you see.[/quote']

There's a difference between "God helps those who help themselves" and "You have to help yourself because God isn't in right now".

Malch is splitting his time between two immortals, managing the staff, coding, building, real life, and, god forbid, morting. How can we expect to get anything done when our head developer has so much on his plate?

Right now there is no good-aligned Immortal. There are only three immortals who I have seen recently in game at all. One of our immortals is having serious real life issues. We need to hire new people. We need a new webmaster who is solely in charge of maintaining an attractive website. We need a lot of things, and the only way to accomplish them is to take the trust that Virigoth gave to you and share it with others. I know that you are protective of your baby, but I think after eight years, you have some competent people here who are more than willing to help if you'll let them. Please give them a chance, for the sake of this MUD that we all love just as much as you do.

[Celerity]

Bottom line is if you do not entertain yourself' date=' you cannot expect the imms to. They have alot to work on behind the scenes of what you see.[/quote']

We play a game so we don't have to entertain ourselves. Especially a competitive multiplayer one. I think most people play for player interaction (whether it is pk and/or rp), not to solely practice their creative writing skills and play with socials.

In a game like this, we should never be reduced to 'having to entertain ourselves' because of a lack of features or objectives. I feel you are trying to place the blame on the player who cannot find something to do (aka entertain yourself). I feel that the problem is the system, which doesn't provide an environment to do something the player wants to do (whether it is pk / rp--no players, no features).

As for work behind the scenes....that means absolutely nothing to most players until it comes out. With no sneak peeks, schedules, or even what is being worked on, the staff may as well be on vacation from the player's perspective. There is no indication that the staff's policies/rate of activity will differ from previous years, so the future has been looking grim for awhile. Which is why even more players jump boat.

[Celerity]

Do you rp constantly? Are you playing your character, or letting your char live out his life? Are you suggesting options? Are you designing areas? Are you trying to keep the quality up with your own chars, both pk and rp?

If the mud is falling out, it is because people do not put the same effort they used to. How many of my response threads have gone this direction?

And what of the people who are doing all of those? What can you say to them? I work my butt off on my characters...

[Guest emp_newb]

And do you not feel rewarded? If you require others to validate what you are doing, maybe you should consider what you are doing. Yes it is nice to have rewards, but you do things for yourself bottom line. A perfect example would be descriptions. Sure dragons and owner only are sweet, but bottom line is you make a description good because your character deserves one, and not because your fishing for gear.

[Evangelion]

Okay, I like your holier than thou attitude. I had it myself for... oh, the first seven years I was here.

But face it. The lack of rewards has really come down with a heavy hand over the last few years. And the results speak for themselves.

[Twinblades713]

I agree with alot if not all of Cel's post. Very good points, very simple fixes (it sounds like). Newbie accumulation/retention ftw.

[A Poet's Blade]

A lot of stuff.

I have played Forsaken Lands somewhere around six or seven years. I have had characters that have condeathed, been involved in major plots, fought, defeated, been defeated, and roleplayed with some of the best. I have played this game as it was designed to be played. Of all people, Emp_Newb, you shouldn't be calling out anyone.

I am of the strong belief that this MUD or ANY game for that matter will fail utterly unless there are a group of people devoted to the building and maintenance of the game and its quality. We had a LOT of people that say they are those people. Most of them are gone. We have a LOT of people that say they are those people NOW, I hope so because we need it. I am pretty confident a lot of players agree with Celerity and I, but do not voice it.

Again, I can't say I am 100% sure of the comment above because I wouldn't deprive them of their opinion whether it coincides with mine or not. If you honestly think Forsaken Lands is a thriving place and growing everyday, then you're a moron.

There are a ton of problems with the MUD, but not many are being addressed. I have seen thousands of great and innovative ideas being posted daily and less than a third of those are considered let alone implemented. The players know what they want in a game, the builders don't always. If the players don't get what they desire, whether it be experience, atmosphere, or enjoyment, they will leave. All but 10 or 15 have done so.

I don't consider myself negative, but realistic. I can't cling to the optimistic opinion that the MUD will rise again, because, the way its going, it won't. I am sorry if I seem negative to you, but I believe this is happening and its sad. I love this place.

Celerity, over many YEARS, has had tremendous ideas, but because members of the past and perhaps current Staff don't "like" her, they aren't even considered. And on the other end, some things have been.(Ferals)

We all complain and we will ALL continue to complain. As Balinor said, the "holier than thou" approach works well in front of the Staff, but when the eyes and ears of the administration aren't about, you complain with the best of them.

[Evangelion]

I have played Forsaken Lands somewhere around six or seven years. I have had characters that have condeathed, been involved in major plots, fought, defeated, been defeated, and roleplayed with some of the best. I have played this game as it was designed to be played. Of all people, Emp_Newb, you shouldn't be calling out anyone.

I am of the strong belief that this MUD or ANY game for that matter will fail utterly unless there are a group of people devoted to the building and maintenance of the game and its quality. We had a LOT of people that say they are those people. Most of them are gone. We have a LOT of people that say they are those people NOW, I hope so because we need it. I am pretty confident a lot of players agree with Celerity and I, but do not voice it.

Again, I can't say I am 100% sure of the comment above because I wouldn't deprive them of their opinion whether it coincides with mine or not. If you honestly think Forsaken Lands is a thriving place and growing everyday, then you're a moron.

There are a ton of problems with the MUD, but not many are being addressed. I have seen thousands of great and innovative ideas being posted daily and less than a third of those are considered let alone implemented. The players know what they want in a game, the builders don't always. If the players don't get what they desire, whether it me experience, atmosphere, or enjoyment, they will leave. All but 10 or 15 have done so.

I don't consider myself negative, but realistic. I can't cling to the optimistic opinion that the MUD will rise again, because, the way its going, it won't. I am sorry if I seem negative to you, but I believe this is happening and its sad. I love this place.

Celerity, over many YEARS, has had tremendous ideas, but because members of the past and perhaps current Staff don't "like" her, they aren't even considered. And on the other end, some things have been.(Ferals)

We all complain and we will ALL continue to complain. As Balinor said, the "holier than thou" approach works well in front of the Staff, but when the eyes and ears of the administration aren't about, you complain with the best of them.

I agree with you enough that I came back from the dead.