The Boat is Rocking

[Icor]

I think there are a couple things rocking FL’s boat right now, and as a player, I’m going to come out and give everyone my opinion on those things and more specifically, what I think they are. I’m going to be blunt and straightforward, because anything short of that is always a tad unclear. Try not to be offended.

Firstly:

Out of character connections have really gotten me down in the gutter. There’s some kind of ring of instant messaging going on; completely OOC relations being built, few of which are pleasant, which seem to be hindering the growth of our current role play status. There are SEVERAL problems with this, one of which is abundantly getting on –my- nerves, and that is the endless finger pointing, whispered guesses, and disrespect. Naturally, people are curious, but the problem is when they learn that, say, So-and-so played Mr. Binkles, the faerie bard guy. They decide that So-and-so deserves only two cups and a tablespoon of their time and respect (if respect is even the issue anymore), while What’s-his-face over there, who played Flabbergaster, deserves a gallon of time, respect, and attention, even though So-and-so is actually better at what he does. I’d love to begin telling you why I resent that. To start off, it eliminates all secrecy any character has, even before everyone finds out who plays them – do you know why? Because the moment you start role playing or player killing them, you start to, at the back of your head, weed out all the people you know couldn’t possibly be playing them. “They don’t RP well enough, they PK too well, they RP with this style”, and this is as bad as walking up to someone and mentioning the Red Socks game to them, because right then, you stop treating them like a piece of the fantasy world, and begin treating them like some real person’s digital toy. You can literally feel the carelessness spilling out of your fellow player RIGHT as they stop giving a hoot about the world and start giving a hoot about who’s behind the scenes trying really hard to generate an environment that you, unawares, are tearing down with your overly curious frame of mind. It seems like an innocent habit, wanting to know who plays who, but it isn’t, and you can see it infesting the role play; just because people use custom ‘says’ with the quotation marks in their emotes does NOT mean role play is getting better. There have been an equal amount of player kills without any role play to back them up, and this has spawned from laziness and disrespect for other players.

I don’t want to be misunderstood, being thought that I am calling out of character chatting the devil or some hog wash. I’m not against talking out of character, what I’m against is gossip and disrespect; I’m against knowing too much information out of character because your friends decided to send you an instant message because they tricked So-and-so into revealing their character. I don’t mind if plots are built out of character, some of the best plots in the game were made that way. It’s time to grow some respect for your fellow player, even if they don’t deserve it. I’ve gotten pointed at by several people who somehow know who I play. They seem to want nothing more than to prove their prowess in divulging secrets to the secret keeper (why, I don’t know). It feels like you’re a bank manager getting taunted by the thief that just stole your money, and it’s uncalled for. If you figure out who someone plays, stop telling them about it, and keep it to yourself. There’s a reason you can’t divulge it on the forum, why break the laws outside the forum? These people don’t want to know that you figured out who they play, or played, it only tears them out of the world they’re trying to immerse themselves into. Besides, they already know who they play; they don’t need someone else to tell them. I can see the categorizing happening IN GAME, people getting picked out of the rest to be given the most fun because they played Flabbergaster or whoever. Because real people actually play these fictional ones, knowing one another’s characters is a good way for feelings and knowledge of our own to bleed into our own character, thusly tarnishing them. Please, just stop.

Secondly:

Stop sucking up to the immortals. You aren’t a bitch – they won’t respect you until you respect yourself. It’s a very simple concept. Respect them, thank them for their work, encourage them, let them know you’re having fun in the game they’re making you, but don’t treat yourself like a peon and polish their egos, hoping that one day they’ll transfer you to some beautiful room in the Higher Planes, advance you to 52 or 53, and give you a pat on the *** to go out the door and moderate. They deserve your respect, not your whoring. You give them enough of your loyalty by adding another player to the player base, and they will probably be happier knowing that there aren’t a bunch of players wanting to walk hand and hand with the almighty up in heaven; it keeps them from getting impatient and stressed out, and it keeps them humble, all of which are good. There’s a line between thanking them, and praising them. Thanking them and respecting them creates a positive mood. Praising them is just sad.

EDIT:

Please, comment. Everything there is debatable, I guess, save for the fact that is purely opinionated.

[Zrothum]

What you are experiencing is called human nature. What more can be said?

[Icor]

Don't start with that; listen to what -ALL- I’m saying. Even Bryntryst frowned against forms of out of character communication, save what was on the forum, which was very general discussion, and I agreed with his logic. Be human; be curious, that's the POINT. We're not supposed to know who plays who, because KNOWING who plays who destroys role play, and because player killing should be BACKED by role play, it destroys player killing too. People are TRYING to learn who plays who, and what's worse, they're passing the knowledge around when they are successful. Stop telling people what you find out, stop finding out period!

[Zrothum]

First you say be human...be curious. I agree. If you don't want someone to know who you play, or you're not ready to have everyone know...then don't have OOC friends. Sooner or later it WILL leak. There are those who run around and tell everyone, and then there are those that don't.

And it doesn't even have to be direct telling. Say you play Bob, but I don't know that. You know I play Sue, but don't know that i play Joe. I'm logged on Joe, you don't see Sue, and you tell me on AIM that you and Matt are having a blast in CC Rheydin. As Joe, I see Bob and Matt...I just found out you play Bob...but you didn't tell me you played Bob...you just didn't know.

There are so many variables as to what can happen and the only way to eliminate that is by NO OOC whatsoever. But, we all know that is impossible, so you are left to deal with things. Don't tell anyone who you play, that is the only safe way. Think it's okay to tell that ONE person? Well, who knows how, but chances are someone else will find out, similiar to the example I presented above.

Not stepping on your toes here, just saying, there really isn't a way to prevent it.

[krounoi]

There are so many variables as to what can happen and the only way to eliminate that is by NO OOC whatsoever. But, we all know that is impossible, so you are left to deal with things. /

Really? I have none, other than an e-mail here and there, and I could care less. As an Imm, there are some associations that are too obvious to negate, but prior to that, I played my characters as they interacted with other characters. And that is how you get the most enjoyment out of this game. Period.

[Zrothum]

You not doing it doesn't stop the dozens that do. That is my point.

[krounoi]

No, I just said it isn't impossible. In fact I would say it is less than desirable.

[Zrothum]

Anything is possible, yes. However, you get my point. Don't place your money betting that everyone who plays this game will cease all OOC communications. It's not even close to something that would be happen.

That is all I meant, I never said there weren't people who did not associate their characters with AIM names or whatnot.

[Nympha]

There are so many variables as to what can happen and the only way to eliminate that is by NO OOC whatsoever. But, we all know that is impossible, so you are left to deal with things. /

Really? I have none, other than an e-mail here and there, and I could care less. As an Imm, there are some associations that are too obvious to negate, but prior to that, I played my characters as they interacted with other characters. And that is how you get the most enjoyment out of this game. Period.

Oh the pains I experienced from OOC chatting on aim. I learned very quickly that it will not work. Hense my time away. Three months I have been gone and I have lost and will keep lost all OOC connections from FL. It is not worth it, it brings nothing but heartache and greif.

Being human by nature, means generally, you will gossip. You will assume, you will spread rumors. All of these things will at some point in time hurt someone else. Be it on a level as far as respect, or as far as emotions go.

I think that once everyone has been able to experience the pain and frustration of OOC rings and the aim society, which I was a part of, then they will stop. Its just a matter of time.

[Chayesh]

Icor,

You aren't saying anything new. I have long been the one saying (along with this entire administration) that OOC ruins this game. That is why there is no chat room, no ICQ channel for FL. At least, not one condoned by the IMMs. That's why PMs were disabled on the old forum. That's why we punish OOC so harshly in game. It's bad for the game in almost every way, shape, or form (forming RP plots OOC sometimes is a good thing). But, it's also something that the IMMs cannot control. People will find ways to cheat, gang, share equipment, trade characters, multi, and everything else. People will use OOC either for their own amusement or more malicious reasons. We can't stop that. Only the players can stop that. Each individual player must make the choice to preserve the "mystery" so to speak. Each player must choose to rise above and plain this game from a pure RP, and thus pure PK, standpoint, refraining from the OOC crap, before that will ever change.

We IMMs can't make the choice for you. But we will be happy to "take out the trash" when you bring it in game.

[Icor]

Thank you. Chayesh, that's exactly what I'm asking for - the players to just grow a little bit of respect and stop trying so hard to learn who plays who. I know the immortals can’t stop it, but they certainly knew what they were talking about when they prohibited such communications after 1.0. Out of character connections ruin Forsaken Lands, and are ruining the RP/PK value of the game right now, because I can see it. It just needs to stop.

I don't want to stop talking to people I know out of character; some of them are very good friends of mine. As long as I can have respect for them, and respect for the game, I won't break rules on the forum here outside by telling people what I might end up learning.

[Mister E]

I totally agree with OOC being nothing but bad. Maybe this is why I dont know as much about the game as some people, because any knowledge I aquire is IC and IG. One thing I am guilty of, and probably others too, is not going ooc in game, but not rping to your characters fullest, or just letting it slip a little when you speak. Little things are what gives you away and frankly I would hate for anyone to know who I played while that char is active. The way to get rid of people trying to figure you out is to not chat with anyone while playing fl, better they dont even know you are online. Keep your friends on msn or something, and if you MUST have freinds who play fl, keep them on aim or something else, but dont stay visible when you are online. Also when you play a char rp your butt off, make ti so creative that you could be anyone. This includes not showing off all the knowledge you have of the game. If some rank 20 char is running around talking about items and places that a lot of people have never seen or been, they are already hinting about how experienced they are here. Let your character develop, maybe even make some little mistakes and run away, instead of just annihalating anyone you see. Personally I love the mystery of it, and I am glad I dont know any of you well enough to recognize your chars. I am always surprised when someone deletes and posts their Score.

[FatMike]

I hate having ooc connections. If one of you lived next door, or worked with me, or went to school together that would be different but I don't know any of you nor do I really want to anymore than I do from the forum. I got caught up in the ooc when I played ar and first started fl and it took me breaking all ties ooc to realize how damaging it really is. I'm sure there are those of you out there who are great people and would be great friends but I'm plenty happy with the few I've got in RL. I'll always consider the players of FL my family in more ways than one, loved mom, hated sister, drunken uncle those kinds of things but I don't want to know who you play or who plays jimmy or whatever. You find something out, keep it under your hat.

[L-A]

You'll find as you play more - and especially as you get more well known people will want to know who you are. We are a community on the forum and this does affect the game.

This doesn't have to be a negative effect - BUT, like Chayesh said, players have to choose themselves when they playing, they are playing.

If you tell no one who you play, people will not find out. Its that simple. I've had people try to use who lists, nag me, ask others, look for my 'play style' and so on and so forth. No one ever knew who I was before I let the cat out of the bag. I have characters that I play today that no one knows. No one.

To me, this doesn't mean that you can't have OOC friendships with those who share a common interest (ie FL), BUT, you have to be able to distinguish what is and isn't appropriate.

Yes, I always had IM programs active when I play and chat on them to other FL'rs - while playing. That being said, we didn't share information to cheat. Ask anyone who crossed the line - I warned once not to do it. I removed them from my lists the second time. Almost all the players (with the usual cheating turds being the exception) respected this. It also allowed me to form some strong friendships with those who were like minded. Guess who it turned out were always the top players? It was those of us who explicitly didn't cheat.

The other side of the coin is those who do cheat - as a player all you can really do is NOT cheat and impress upon others the importance of this. For those who do want to cheat - well, that is what the IMMs are for. Do you job as a player and play by the rules. Let the IMMs do their job and kick heads of those who don't. There simply isn't anything more you can do.

L-A

[Despiser]

Agree with Lay-About on this, and when the two of us agree, you know it's gotta be true.

There's nothing so annoying as, "Hey, come on, log on and help me in a Dischord trip."

Well, there is. One thing. "Hey, I know you play soandso, because soandso person told me. How did he know? Because he compared your AIM log on times with your game times."

A major reason why I don't post much, either, and don't chat much with but a few, trusted players.

[Icor]

Well, thanks for all the input, and thank you for agreeing.

...I wonder why the second topic I mentioned hasn't been touched on though. Maybe it’s just a tad... controversial?

[Zrothum]

Second topic? Again, human nature.

[Chayesh]

For the record, I have no need of worship or sucking up.

I'm not here, and neither are any of the rest of my staff, to pump our egos. Whether anyone believes it or not, we believe ourselves to be professionals. All these IMMs were chosen for their character.

All the sucking up I need is for players to play by the rules, respect the IMMs, stay in character, and enjoy themselves.

If anything, of late, the pbase has been more positive toward the IMMs than I can remember. It's been quite pleasant actually.

[Wathok]

Word.

[Lunicant]

I tend to believe that OOC connections will, after a while, cause the people using them to lose the fun from the game. A lot of them will just drift away. We cannot stop all forms of OOC communication - all we can do is be vigilant in game and, with your help, clamp down on anyone cheating. As has been said many times if you know or suspect someone is cheating, multiplaying, using OOC connections for in-game activities then let us know either in-game or via the prayer forum. I promise you everything will be investigated. Having said that I have to echo what Chayesh has said in that the attitude of the pbase does seem to be improving massively. The MUD is for everyone and, as such, it is all of our responsibilities to make the game more enjoyable for those who do respect the rules (the vast majority of you). It's a cliche but cheating does spoil enjoyment ultimately for the cheater.