some sort of raping initiation.
These are cabals we're talking about, not fraternities. Warmaster is the only cabal that goes through something like that because it's the Cabal RP to be warriors dedicated to combat for combat's sake, NOT as a means to an end. A time of getting whomped on doesn't fit as well with the others'.
It is only ten hours for WMs now. You can see it in the helpfile that WM's only have to be M in the cabal to choose a subcabal now.
WM skillset is fine. It takes a great warrior combo (ogre war for istance) and gives them an extra edge in battle. No longer is it dirt, disarm if applicable,and lag. Now it's a plethora of other options in combat to do some pretty awesome things. Not to mention a few other bonuses that give alot of the "magical" affects that can be used by mages, in a "natural RP" skill to WMs. The argument was made about sanc, flight, etc. Anyone who has played a Gladiator to at least Trusted knows the truth.
WM doesn't need a buff at all. I agree that Barbs might could use a little looking into with herbs and useable items, simply becase Gladiator gets a way out of the loss of vials and potions and all that...whereas Barbs don't get that kinda severe skillset to overcome those losses. And the things they can use just don't add up/make sense w/ present day FL. Albeit, the skills they do get kinda outweigh their losses in some regards.
All in all, I'd say the cabal is fine. And unless someone can make some direct accusations on what spefically is the problem, without just saying WM is weak because they cant use magic.....well, blah.
LA had some good points. Read over all his posts in this thread.
Well then. Let us just go back to 1.0 where instead of 10 hours of no magic, you have your entire characters life with no magic. That is right. Levels 1 through 50 as well as the entire time until you get into the cabal, with no magic. Any death you took along the way was yours and yours alone, no coddling of your con points by the code. At least now you are no longer necro and DK fodder before you get into the cabal.
We understand that the sheer power (read: overpowered) factor of today's Warmasters is not comparable to 1.0s version, but for a cabal that allows you to do certain things without your standard that 1.0 WMs would kill for, I think that tradeoff is fair.
Any talk of Warmaster's deficiency must include talk about Savant's strengths. A topic that I assure you, the staff is currently talking about right now.
However, I hope the little perspective that I have given you will make a lot of you rethink about your complaint that 10 hours of no magic is just that brutal.
Maybe all that complaining I did while playing Zehava counted for something?
Gotta agree 100% with Malchaeius. Not even as far back as 1.0, in this age still the whole life as Senrail Warmasters couldn't use ANY skills from the cabal without the standard. That made things exremely difficult when the odds were against, or logging on to three savants that have your standard already. That correction being made alone is enough to even things up in my opinion. There may be certain savant combos that unless you're a certain race/class of warmaster you're gonna have a hard enough time surviving let alone winning, but it goes both ways. For a while warmasters were too strong IMO but I think they're pretty well balanced now. The right player behind a warmaster can do some amazing things. As for back when you had to go your whole character life without magic, that SUCKED. Best thing the immortals EVER did for the warmaster cabal was change that. I mean, back then you had a chance to get in a cabal before lvl 50, so that kind of evened things up if you could manage to get in around 35. But imagine not being able to fight anyone that went invisible, or being a fire giant or ogre that can never use sanc fighting ANY kind of mage. Most of my warmasters in those ages would take 10-15 deaths before getting in a cabal compared to an average of 2 these days. I think the imms here do a great job of checking out possible unbalances and correcting them.
The difference is, Malch, that 1.0 Warmasters not only wanted to perfect physical combat, they wanted to destroy magic. There was the inherent hatred of magic in the RP. Not only that, but in 1.0, the instant you were in Warmaster you had powers to compensate. You couldn't be called out to defend the Warmaster cabal without magic use or Warmaster skills, as you can be now. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly a far less demanding life now, but I just personally feel that it may be doing something to keep the number of people going for Warmaster down (as it, quite honestly, is a factor for me). This is just my opinion, and maybe that's part of what you guys have in mind for Warmasters... using it as a trial period to cull the weak from the strong, the determined from the not... and if so, then don't change a thing. But people were asking for ways to improve Warmasters and their appeal, and I just offered my take on it.
I hear you Pali. Warmaster has a different RP now. Now it is all about proving how great of a warrior your are. This means that unlike any other cabal, they want you to prove that you can survive on your own strength first. Without any outside factors. I played a WM during 1.0. Sure you had powers the moment you joined, but once that standard was taken - you became lunch meat (Unless your name was Kentry). Now, they have a chance of surviving without their standard.
I still cannot comprehend how ten hours of being humbled (because let us be honest for a moment, you are not losing con, you are not losing points towards your total amount of lives. The only thing that is being hurt is your pride) can at all compare to 30+ hours of hoping that some invoker does not realize you are a WM wannabe, and launch down on you spells blazing.
Oh, like I said, I totally agree that it's easier on your character now. And I agree, all it is is you being humbled. But my chars don't like being humbled. ^_~
EDIT: More seriously, my main point was really just that it's not an experience I'd enjoy going through, and it lowers my incentive to make a Warmaster. If I'm the only person here it does that for, then it's no problem at all. I'm just worried that it might also be chasing off other people as well. I mean, hell, I personally don't enjoy playing necros, but that doesn't mean I'm wanting them gone, you know?
All this talk of WMs...
Once i'm done with my current project I am going to make one. I have race/class already picked out AND the RP. My last one was a halfling warrior Lirard, i'd love to see how things have changed.
well as Malch did say....its not so much as how weak the WM skill set is but the strength of the Savant cabal...
I'm playing a WM hopeful right now. Just waiting to catch the rank-train to 50.
Then make a bladesmaster and stop whining, oh yea, your banned.
Acerbity, you make it how long before getting banned? Covus got the wrong title. YOU are the nightmare of Aabahran. Go get a girlfriend, or a car, or a pube.
This was posted because inevitably they will get around said ban, and I want them to read this.
Huh? Acerbity = Jester? I'm lost....see what I get for moving and losing interest?