Berserkers

Everyone seems to agree that berserkers need something. I've pinnacled three (one from each path) and I found that while they are cool they are very, very lacking.

They had some new changes not so long ago - and the new changes were cool. A bit of a change for a class that is already (relatively) very hard to extract power from.

I have been thinking about this and I believe that rage and the path chosen should become more of a focus for how the class is played.

My ideas revolve mainly around making rage and some other skills get different bonuses dependant on the path that is chosen. This gives each of the paths a largely different focus:

General Philosophy:

Berserkers are based on their anger – represented in game by the rage skill. I believe that berserkers should gain bonuses to other skills when raged (more so than now). Raged, a berserker is a berserker. He’s going to tear your head off and take a dump down your neck. Un-raged a berserker is some sort of gimped warrior. Sometimes useful, but far more scary when he’s p!ssed off.

General Enhancements:

Roar: Is pathetic at the moment. Almost utterly useless as a skill. I suggest giving roar the fear effect when sucessful – after all, you have a yelling, screaming, p!ssed off, frothing at the mouth person coming at you. You’re concentration is going to be compromised. Different paths will depend on how effective this skill is.

Note on ‘current variables’ and ‘rage blocking’ skills – don’t ask here what they are. I’m not laying them all out for you. If you want to know roll a zerk and do some experimentation. If you don’t want to do this, resign yourself to a lifetime of ignorance.

Path of Anger:

Anger zerks are the unequivocal brawlers of the class. Head, hands and arms are all useful for causing pain and injuries. This guy is mad and and he’s going to make you pay for it….

Autorage: Never - ultimate control of their anger.

Headbutt: Anger zerks gain innate mastery of headbutt when choosing the path.

Skullcrusher: Remains unchanged.

Rage: Immunity to rage blocking skills once raged. Cannot overcome the rage blocking skills if the effect is on them while unraged.

Relax: Anytime - 100% success. Innate mastery of relax when the path is chosen.

Headsmash: Automatic when headbutt is used (like skullcrusher/haymaker). Headsmash will always go through protective shield. There is a chance of thunderclap effect if successful. Headsmash will only work when the berserker is raged.

Forearm smash: Automatic when skullcrusher is used. Based on skullcrusher proficiency. Berserkers gain skill when choosing path of anger. Chance of bloodloss for 1 hour on success (if his forearm goes into your nose, you will bleed…). Does an amount of damage. Dwarves, owing to their barfly and brawling nature, are particularly good at this – small bonus for dwarf/duergar with this skill. This skill only works when the berserker is raged.

Roar: Standard chance to land.

Path of Fury:

Berserkers of this path are unique in that their focus on their anger is extended to larger two handed weapons. This path gives berserkers bonuses and abilities when using powergripped weapons. You’ve just upset someone who has a BIG, BIG stick and now he’s going to hit you with it. Buckle up spanky….

Autorage: Sometimes – unchanged from now.

Powergrip : As already, powergripped weapons fall to inventory when disarmed.

More effective two handed defence when using powergripped weapons.

Innate mastery of all cleaving skills when using powergripped weapons.

When the berserkers expert weapon type is powergripped, the berserker can knock a burnproof weapon their opponents inventory by cleaving it. Based on current cleaving variables. Rage gives a large bonus to this ability – though the berserker does not need to be raged to do this.

Rage: Immune to 'rage blocking' skills once raged. 50% chance to overcome 'rage blocking' skills (ie remove effects completely from player) when rage command entered.

Relax: 100% effective when out of combat. Based on relax skill when in combat.

Roar: Standard effect. This path gives a bonus to land when the berserker is raged.

Path of Devesation:

These guys are scary characters of the lands. Brutes one and all. Think of Mr T after he takes a double dose of steroids and gets kicked in the balls six times. You’re going to feel pain boy, oh how you’re going to feel pain….

Autorage: Sometimes – like it is now.

Rage: Immunity to all 'rage blocking; skills when raged. 100% chance to overcome all 'rage blocking' skills when the entering the rage command (always succeeds).

Relax: When out of combat dependant on the relax skill. I know you're all going to cry foul of this, but face it, not being able to get out of rage is too bigger penalty to pay for the signature skill of the class. Berserkers need rage. Berserkers need to be able to get out of rage sometimes. These is almost no possibility of a berserker surviving as a WANTED when they go to town due to lots of guard and a small possibility of augorage. Its bad enough fighting in cabal wars with multiple oppoents wandering about. Devastation berserkers cannot relax in combat.

Damage roar: As is now. Happens more often when raged.

Headbutt: Chance to break (ie dispel) protective shield/forcefield/reflective shield if used while raged. Based on current headbutt variables. Large bonus to this happening when raged and berserked.

Shield bash: A devastation berserker will automatically shield bash during each round of combat while raged if they have a shield equipped. Shield bash proficiency = shield block proficiency.

Roar: Innate mastery of roar skill when raged. Bonus to land and the effectiveness of roar when a devastation berserker is raged.

Swing: 1 extra swing attack per weapon wielded when raged.

Red mist: 50 mana to activate, duration 0 hours. This skill can only be activated when the berserker is raged. The berserker gains the panic skill while under the effect of the Red Mist. The berserker gains 1 extra swing attack for each weapon wielded when raged. The berserker will shield bash each non primary target if they are using a shield while under the effects of the Red Mist.

Thoughts and ideas?

Cheers,

L-A

I do believe Berserkers could use some tone ups. However, it just takes one player who knows how to get the most out of this class to dominate with it.

That is every class. What L-A wants is to bring up the power level a smidge of a class that is hard to get much out of. I agree and think those ideas are pretty solid for upgrades in power without adding too many new things that may undo the simplicity of the class as is.

I do believe Berserkers could use some tone ups. However' date=' it just takes one player who knows how to get the most out of this class to dominate with it.[/quote']

Yeah, I was going to post that earlier as well about it takes one person, but I was kind of busy. Look at Thieves, there was a thief who went around before Traps were available to them other than basic traps I believe, but they were still given the advancement of traps. Thieves not only went from petty crimes to killing left and right, but all the players before who couldn't land a kill eventually were able to because of such. Same thing happens when things are toned down, someone makes a race/class combo that not many have done before and manage to take it from mediocre to massive pain in the *** (Goomf anyone? Loucheran? Goomf was good to annoy the **** out of you by stealing your things, Loucheran was good to annoy you in the fact that you best run if you're evil because Loucheran going to hunt your *** till dead.)

About the topic itself, I read through some of it, not all of it because I'm dead tired, but for the most part I liked what I saw. It could possibly swing things more in favor to them since a lot of the times they are easily owned by just about everyone (especially those poor WMs who can't use magic, they just get hosed because of it if they don't have the EQ). I might read more later and put more thoughts, but depends on when I wake up next.

Now I'll bite, I've played a lot of zerks. I love the class, love the rp, love the opportunity...that right now they don't have. The mindset of playing a zerk is something a lot of the pbase doesn't have. To play a zerk, you have to be okay with dying. You're gonna die, probably about 60% of the time. You know you're going to die about 80% of that. You're going to die, and get full looted. It's simple. But here's where L-As ideas come in. You still die with all those additives. But! You'll kill with them too, oh read those and bask in how you will kill. You need to ask, what do you think when you think of a berserker? I giant with a big blade with a really, really mean outlook is what I think of. What do I think of FL zerks? Easy Malform fodder. Those perks are cool. Definitely to put the fear back into the thought of a zerk coming for you.

I'd gladly sacrifice my Zerk's life to cleave a malform weapon.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Path of Devastation ideas, but I really like the idea of the first two paths.

One simple change that I would also like to see with Zerks is what I proposed before - make it so that if you cleave a weapon, and the cleave originally would have been successful if it wasn't for the weapon being burnproof, relay a message that tells you the weapon can't be cleaved - just like how if you try to disarm a no-disarm, you're told the weapon won't budge if the disarm would have been successful. The last thing you want to do as a Zerk is to be wasting rounds cleaving because that pugilling warrior is wielding a burnproof staff and owning you hard (as it's not as simple as just identifying a weapon to see if it's burnproof - there's more than one way to burnproof a non-burnproof weapon).

Simple change that doesn't unbalance the class, even if added with the above ideas, IMO.

Alternatively, one of my other biggest gripes with the class is that Berserker is supposed to be the ultimate in melee offense, at the cost of defence. Berserker VS Warrior, Warrior can easily match the damage output of a Berserker whilst maintaining superior defence. Raging against a Warrior is not the best of ideas. So, how about this for an idea?

Berserkers, when raged, have an extra chance for their melee attacks to land when their opponent is using pugil with the two-handed skill (so, warriors then, so as not to make them even more ownage against ninjas/bards ). Pugil is about using swift, fast movements with a staff to maintain superior defense whilst being able to output a high number of attacks - when raged, a Berserker's blows are that strong that it is simply impossible for the pugilist to be able to deflect all of them. Not a huge bonus that suddenly makes the Zerk start owning, but enough to make it worthwhile raging against a pugilist to get a considerable amount of extra attacks in. This means that a Warrior would have to consider resorting to shield & weapon or another two- handed weapon, meaning they maintain good defense but at a slightly lesser melee output. The skill has it's downsides to balance it - Zerk rages in combat, Warrior changes weaponry instantly and begins to own raged Zerk.

Just an idea. Warriors rape Zerks hard - not only can they easily overpower them in straight melee, but if they want a bit of rest, all they need to do is dirt kick, flee, and sleep, whilst the Zerk flouders about unable to rest. It at least gives them a better chance against Warriors.

Dey

Dey - your sig owns. A little morbid, but it owns.

Questioner: I can probably roll a zerk and kill off a large percentage of the populace. The problem is it will take me 200% - 300% of the effort to do the same with a shaman, dk, ninja or battlemage.

Zerks are not a bad class - they just lack in realtion to other classes. As a melee they have suffered from eq rebalances and consumables changes over time. They have not been seriously updated in a while.

MoP: I disagree you have to die a lot as a zerk - however, you are right. Currently, people don't fear a fg zerk with a huge stick bearing down on them. They laugh, they frolic, they aren't scared. They should be. Everyone should be afraid of a zerk landing on them and exploding. IMHO, the classes survivablity should be coming from a exceptionally strong offense that leaves opponents in its wake.

Dey: I agree with the message if the weapon is burnproof. Until then, all you budding zerks out there, try to cleave twice then move on. If you are set up correctly to cleave and haven't got it on the second try, chances are its burnproof.

Dey: What don't you like about devastation? I know I gave them things that sound hard - however, I think its the weakest path atm and needs to get some kind of bonus if you are taking something that simply cant' get out of rage.

Dey: Zerk gets owned my melee's. This is true. I mentioned in on the forum not so long ago and got told its how it should be. Zerks own casters. Zerks own rogues. Zerks get owned by melees.

I just don't think zerks should getting owned so hard by every other class. Its one thing to have a powerspike. Its another when 50% of the classes wandering about are your foil.

L-A

Questioner: I can probably roll a zerk and kill off a large percentage of the populace. The problem is it will take me 200% - 300% of the effort to do the same with a shaman' date=' dk, ninja or battlemage.[/quote']

I wouldn't be able to do that, but I agree. I've also played three Zerks at pinn, one to condeath, and whilst they've been my must fun playing experiences, they've been equally as frustrating at times.

Dey: What don't you like about devastation? I know I gave them things that sound hard - however, I think its the weakest path atm and needs to get some kind of bonus if you are taking something that simply cant' get out of rage.

Not saying I don't like it, just that I'm unsure. My first concern was the shield bash every round - unless I'm confusing it with another Warrior lore, a shield bash every other round sounded as though it would be fairly overpowered. Then my thoughts turned to the fact that they have to wield a shield for it to kick in, reducing their offensive output.. and of course, the fact that I can't remember what shield bash does from the top of my head, so I probably am maybe confusing it with another lore...

Dey: Zerk gets owned my melee's. This is true. I mentioned in on the forum not so long ago and got told its how it should be. Zerks own casters. Zerks own rogues. Zerks get owned by melees.

I just don't think zerks should getting owned so hard by every other class. Its one thing to have a powerspike. Its another when 50% of the classes wandering about are your foil.

Again, I agree. Zerks have the advantage over casters and rogues, definitely. That's invokers, bmgs, thieves, ninjas and bards.

I found from my own experiences that contrary to popular belief, it's a bit more of a gray area when it comes to hybrids and communers - it can swing either way depending on a variety of factors, same with how it can swing either way when fighting a monk or blademaster. Now, maybe that was to do with race choice - Ogre did not lend itself to dealing with communers as effectively as a Dwarf would. However, playing a Dwarf Zerk, I would absolutely dread having to fight a melee - every fight I won (not many) against other melees as my Zerk, I scraped through by the skin of my teeth using my massive Ogre regeneration and cabal abilities. If, for whatever reason, these classes get access to some sort of reliable or semi-reliable way to blind, things can get a lot worse for the Zerk...

Warriors, vamps and saders will have their wicked way with a Zerk. Liches and Psions, I wouldn't know - all I know is, I found myself thoroughly owned by the last Lich I thought, though naturally that can be attributed to the fact that my knowledge of the Lich class at the time was negligable.

Dey

I see no problem with zerks the way they are. Zerks can be ridiculous in almost any cabal - especially combat oriented ones.

You can't give a class, especially one dominated by giants, extra "keep-in-fight" tactics when they already have bodyslam, trip and a skill like haymaker. Vamps don't even have it that easy. Giving them a bloodloss or thunderclap skill is just over the top IMO.

even if it takes you +200-300% effort, i'd love to see you roll a zerk and p-dominate for the fun of it. there hasnt been a really dangerous berserker since thorgull i think

hehe Thorgul was mean.

I have played a few zerkers had a beast (wolf)) zerker...would love to do it gaain, but rnaking to 15 312093190 times to get wolf is a pain and I just havent tried it.

Some SERIOUS bonus', rage, berserk, warcry, transform...

I still think even a little boost would be great. And I want to see a FG Zerk own everyone. Hey, Celerity, are you busy?

That's it, I'm coming out of retirement and rolling a new powerhouse berserker.

I still think even a little boost would be great. And I want to see a FG Zerk own everyone. Hey' date=' Celerity, are you busy?[/quote']

Ummm...out of every race possible for Zerker, they have the easiest time killing people with their added bonuses. If anything I'd rather see a Dwarf/Duergar Zerk being able to own, that would be new, Fire Giant Zerk if you can't be decent on it with very basic EQ it's time to delete because you suck. The only bad thing they have is they take 3 practices to 75% and that's fixed easily by just rolling an Adventurer and go to 30 and use all the practices you want to get skills up and master them and revert and you have extra practices to help you out. If you don't want to rank to 30 twice, you can suffer the practices. Seriously though out of all Zerks, Fire Giant is probably the easiest next to Minotaur to PK with.

I disagree, ogre is hands down the most survivable and therefore the best in PK.

that all sounds nice in theory, but i'm pretty sure things arent so smooth in practice. Who was the last badass fg zerk hm? if the correct answer is vaernim, that should show you how often someone actually makes a successful fg zerk. not a zerk that occasionally stomps a pc into oblivion, but a zerk that stomps pc's with consistency. fg's dex, stupidity, and vuln are real challenges.

I wouldn't say the best, but definitely up there next to the other two. Ogre has a vuln which makes Minotaur pretty touch opponent, but Ogre has the ability to have upwards of 2k hp with rage which makes it harder to kill them than the other two and their ability to massively outheal their opponents depending on who it is makes them good too. Fire Giant Zerks will output more damage than an Ogre Zerk usually with all their bells and whistles, Minotaur charge combined with dual wielding axes makes them about just as harsh. Definitely the top three races for Zerk, but I still have to say Fire Giant and Minotaur would easily be able to outfame an Ogre Zerk.

that all sounds nice in theory' date=' but i'm pretty sure things arent so smooth in practice. Who was the last badass fg zerk hm? if the correct answer is vaernim, that should show you how often someone actually makes a successful fg zerk. not a zerk that occasionally stomps a pc into oblivion, but a zerk that stomps pc's with consistency. fg's dex, stupidity, and vuln are real challenges.[/quote']

You forget I haven't played in 2 years, I don't even know who Vaernim is/was. I'm not saying bad ***, I'm saying they're easy to get enough hit/dam and wield fire weapons to give them natural proficiency enough to deal enough damage to negate their vuln. Vuln weapons are disarmable/cleaveable so you can't claim their vuln is a total killer to them. Invoker giving you a problem? Go the LA route and wield smoking flail and dual something fiery, ice storm is still a lot longer lag with a fully charged staff than say fireball. You have to play smart against a smart opponent, otherwise you screwed yourself and just because you can get creamed by a very small portion of the pbase doesn't mean that Fire Zerks are hard to play and PK. A decked Fire Zerk will usually cream a lot of people, and through sanc and all my bells and whistles as a Healer fully spelled up had them dealing over 150hp a round.

A lot of things are sound in theory, but usually it's theory that becomes sound if you attempt it. Fire Giant Zerk > Dwarf/Duergar Zerk any day. I don't really see a whole lot of Invokers at 50, I see two, Aylene and Eohan and only Aylene is most active when I play which means there's around 25 other people at 50 active you can have a go at and be able to at least be moderately successful (assuming it's not a blademaster predicting certain skills you intend to spam because that's your uber PK skills [note: not aimed at anyone specifically, but that used to be a favorite tactic of Fire Zerks]). Someone who's familiar with armor will be able to take down a good portion of people though with a Fire Zerk, and with basic armor chimera/red dragon, and a few other things to bump up hit/dam since you lose dodge raged anyways, wielding fiery weapons and having natural proficiency with them will easily outdamage people. If I didn't have 6 weeks left and I didn't have other characters I will be devoting time to, I'd just roll one up and try it to see if my theory is sound or false.