brsingr Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Sooo... yeah. I'm out. Not because I'm offended, or anything of the like, but i havent played the game for years, and there's not much of interest on here nowadays. Also, i am aware I frustrate a lot of you. I am a calm, intelligent person most of the time, but occasionally I make completely irrational decisions, and i feel compelled to share them because i find them entertaining. However, I've been doing a lot of thinking about life in general, and reality, and I wanted to share this. I will probably hang around to check out this thread, but that's it. What if the psychotic people are the only people who are sane, and living in the real world, and all of us are living in delusion filled dreams? It's hard to explain it, but i'll do my best. (Not necessarily hard to explain, but hard to get the point to hit you as hard as it hit me, and make people incredulous) I've realized that reality is subjective, and no one human being will ever see the complete, concrete reality, because what we see as reality, though we think of it like we're staring at the world through the windows that are our eyes, But we're not. What you experience as reality, what I experience as reality, hell, even what crazy robert* sees as reality, is nothing but a picture in our heads. Our brain takes input from out senses and constructs what you think of as the world in your mind. What you and i see, hear, feel and experience as reality could be nothing like the actual, concrete reality, and the reality you experience might be nothing like what i experience. *Crazy robert is a completely psychotic individual who sees spirits and thinks egypt is following him around. What's really scary about this is that what crazy robert sees as reality could actually be closer to The REAL reality than what you or i see. You know what i think drug induced psychosis is? I think it's the result of seeing the real reality, having your mind opened. I think that people who realize the real meaning of life go crazy because they realize that their life means nothing. An inconceivable speck of insignifigance in a giant universe. I think that if you examined the brain of someone with drug induced psychosis, they're probably using more of their brain than normal people. I think that the reason we don't use the majority of our brains is because we are not ready for the kind of knowledge something of that proportion would entail. I think we only have it for things like hallucinogens and such to temporarily activate those parts, so that we can glean a quick glance at reality. when we have evolved to the point that we can gain the knowledge of the universe without going completely insane, the rest of our brain will unlock. Did you know that you get over a horrible thing easier than an annoyance? Because People don't realize this, but your brain has a defense mechanism that warps facts to be positive so you can get over things without getting manically depressed. This mechanism doesn't "kick in" for small annoyances. The world we live in, or rather, the worlds that we live in (as i said, everyone's perception of reality, and by extension, the world, is different) Is half reality and half illusion. If our brain didnt warp the facts, we would all go crazy because we can't handle the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-guitarist Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Take this to your doctor, enjoy the chemical cocktail you get. This is old news, but hitting the webs currently. Also, look at things like Existentialism, Pragmatism, read about Charles Sanders Peirce, and realize you're just like everyone else. What that means is your drasticially normal, but amazingly unique. a-g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telufial Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Wow. I actually agree with you in a few cases here. That was probably the most intelligent thing I've seen you post in the last two months. Life is a crazy perception based construction. It's different for everyone, but it's the same in it's key fundamentals. Usually these are size/shape/color/physics/etc. Unless you are in fact under the influence of hallucinogens, and then things seem to obtain an entirely different set of laws and rules to govern them. But in normal circumstances, you and I can look at a bird, and identify that life-form as a bird. We agree that what we saw is a bird, because it IS IN FACT a bird. So, in normal circumstances (assuming you aren't crazy robert) there is a set of rules and laws which over the course of human history we have discovered and defined. If we didn't have those laws and rules, we would not be able to communicate, because no-one would be able to agree upon what definition suits an object best. It would be chaos if I allowed my mind to call the color green, purple. And saw what you decided to call green, purple as well. So, our current state of reality is an everchanging construct that we are still in the process of designing...for better or worse. In order to keep designing this reality, we must continue to agree on new laws and principles which describe new processes and theories which are still being discovered. But the whole point is, the vast majority of people in the world see everything the same as the next guy. Not morally or ethically necissarily, but out of necessity, we all see the fundamental building blocks of the universe the same. Perhaps it's not the true nature of those building blocks that we see, but whatever it is, the majority of people in the world see it the same. Those who see it different, we the majority, have chosen to describe as 'crazy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Correction. That was probably the most intelligent thing I've seen you post ever. What I like about this is it isn't disprovable and those are the things that ARE fun to ponder. Who can disprove the possibility of the Matrix? Who can disprove things like heaven, hell, or a realm of death with either Hades, or just a bunch of shinigami (japanese for death god) that write our names in their books just before we die? A-g nailed it, look up existentialism if you're really interested this stuff. Legit post, Brsingr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 You know what i think drug induced psychosis is? I think it's the result of seeing the real reality, Brsingr, you should stick around and play. Now, I just have to disagree with your statement above. Drug induced psychosis of any sort is most definately an impaired reality. The 'real' reality as you call it is real while the drug induced psychosis is a drug induced psychosis. This simple paradigm shift will sort things out for you my friend. I think that people who realize the real meaning of life go crazy because they realize that their life means nothing. An inconceivable speck of insignifigance in a giant universe. I think that people who realize the real meaning of life don't go crazy, because their life has meaning. I don't think that many people realize the real meaning of life, however it is a lifelong search that should keep you happy. when we have evolved to the point that we can gain the knowledge of the universe without going completely insane, the rest of our brain will unlock. It is interesting that you think that evolving to a higher level means using more of our brains. Evolution cannot be viewed like a ladder with one path being higher than another. What you are talking about would likely not be 'human' but a creature that has adapted in different ways, only one of which would be a massive increase in brain function. I wonder what else would be different about them and other possible future species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brsingr Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Brsingr, you should stick around and play. Now, I just have to disagree with your statement above. Drug induced psychosis of any sort is most definately an impaired reality. The 'real' reality as you call it is real while the drug induced psychosis is a drug induced psychosis. This simple paradigm shift will sort things out for you my friend. I think that people who realize the real meaning of life don't go crazy, because their life has meaning. I don't think that many people realize the real meaning of life, however it is a lifelong search that should keep you happy. It is interesting that you think that evolving to a higher level means using more of our brains. Evolution cannot be viewed like a ladder with one path being higher than another. What you are talking about would likely not be 'human' but a creature that has adapted in different ways, only one of which would be a massive increase in brain function. I wonder what else would be different about them and other possible future species. I am not suggesting that people who have drug induced psychosis continue to see the 'real' reality (by which i mean the actual reality, not the picture our brains form in response to sensory input), I am suggesting that at one point in their constant use of drugs (Am i wrong, or do most cases of drug induced psychosis come from hallucinogenics?) They caught a glimpse of the actual reality, and the realization that they are living in a lie, so to speak, destroyed their sanity. Also, though i find it hard to beleive that concious beings, or life in general for that matter, simply resulted from a random chemical reaction, without some kind of divine being giving it a gentle nudge, I also find it hard to beleive that there is any real purpose to our lives. When i attempt to imagine the vastness of a universe which, from what i understand (assuming the holographic universe theory is a dud) simply expands forever, into infinity, I almost go insane, due to the fact that it's human nature to expect everything to end at some point, and the concept of infinity is mind boggling. What are we but small, insignifigant specks on this one little rock floating in the universe. How could anything we do possibly have any signifigance on the grand scale? I think, though it's a depressing thought, we simply dont matter. I think the search for the meaning of life is simply the inability to accept this. Also, i didnt mean evolve physically, i meant when we, as a race, are socially and emotionally mature enough that we can accept the real reality without insanity following, we will find a way to use the rest of our brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchaeius Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think that the reason we don't use the majority of our brains is because we are not ready for the kind of knowledge something of that proportion would entail. I think we only have it for things like hallucinogens and such to temporarily activate those parts, so that we can glean a quick glance at reality. when we have evolved to the point that we can gain the knowledge of the universe without going completely insane, the rest of our brain will unlock. http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-guitarist Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Drugs that interact with the brain all have chance of causing psychosis, just hallucinegenics have the largest. Pot is sometimes considered a Hallucinegen, other times not, but it can lead to damage to those succeptiable to it. Alcohol has the same affect on some people. But here is the honest truth. There is no "real" world like you're claiming. What you see is all you're gonna get. I've been in full fledge broken reality, gone and gone for awhile. WC has seen it, my family, friends. This is it. If you can't be happy waking up in the morning and realizing you're not dead.... well, you're trying too damn hard at being miserable. Wake up, stop feeling sorry for yourself, and realize that that attitude is only going to cause you trouble. Constant trouble. Chemical chance? Intelligent design? Fate and purpose? No answer, at least not now. If you can't just take it on faith at this moment, either give up or shut up. All you're going to do is depress the **** out of yourself, make it so you want nothing out of your life and then you'll be 30 years old, drunk most the day, stoned the rest, and living off the system. "we simply don't matter." GOOD! You've figured it out. What makes you more special than that cow you ate at McDonalds? Aside from the growth hormone, it's an opposible thumb. The universe is a deadly, nasty place, just like the world, the ocean, and the forest. Earth will eat you alive if you don't look at what you're doing, and that's the way it should be. You are not special, I am not, and neither is anyone you've ever loved. But... what makes life living is making everyone you love and yourself special to everyone around you. Believe in god, I don't. Don't believe in god, I don't not believe either. Either way, if you can't realize that the only meaing you glean from what you do is what you take from it. Nothing you're pondering hasn't been thought by millions of people over history of life. And here's the biggest mother ****er of them all... You will never know. Ever. Until you die, and then you've got no way of getting it back. So, here's my advice: Go outside, sit under a tree, Buddah style, and just put a hand on it. Close your eyes, sit so far away from the road just feel it. You will feel something. Maybe it's the texture of the bark, maybe it's warmth of the tree,, or maybe you'll feel a vibration. Either way, you'll feel something. In AA you're told to have faith in something larger than yourself. Most pick god. My friend picked the group he was part of. Another picked Allah. I've talked to a person that picked the Oak tree outside their house. What does that mean? No one is righter than the other, we're only opinionated. Wake up, smell the coffee and smile. Smile not because you want to, but because you have to in order to make your miserable life mean anything. a-g oh, and drugs don't open any damn doors in your head. They just make you a drooling, giggling retard. So smoke, snort, and do what you want to do, but realize there are people opening the same doors you are by just listening to themselves. "To Sit Alone With My Conscience Will Be Judgment Enough For Me" - Raphael Alexander. I hate quoting others, but this is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Brilliance Sometimes I'm not sure what I would do if I hadn't come to know you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorCleric Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 If you can't be happy waking up in the morning and realizing you're not dead.... well' date=' you're trying too damn hard at being miserable.[/quote'] My favorite definition for the word misery: The feeling you have in the morning when you wake up and realize you've survived the night. Sometimes I'm not sure what I would do if I hadn't come to know you. Well, what I took from his post was that you can't be sure, but you can dream... oh what sweet, sweet, wonderful dreams they are... WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfdude Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Drugs are cool and **** dude but don't make it a lifestyle mang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-guitarist Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 There's no place in this world where I'll belong when I'm gone And I won't know the right from the wrong when I'm gone And you won't find me singin' on this song when I'm gone So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here And I won't feel the flowing of the time when I'm gone All the pleasures of love will not be mine when I'm gone My pen won't pour out a lyric line when I'm gone So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here And I won't breathe the bracing air when I'm gone And I can't even worry 'bout my cares when I'm gone Won't be asked to do my share when I'm gone So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here And I won't be running from the rain when I'm gone And I can't even suffer from the pain when I'm gone Can't say who's to praise and who's to blame when I'm gone So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here Won't see the golden of the sun when I'm gone And the evenings and the mornings will be one when I'm gone Can't be singing louder than the guns when I'm gone So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here All my days won't be dances of delight when I'm gone And the sands will be shifting from my sight when I'm gone Can't add my name into the fight while I'm gone So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here And I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone Can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here - written by a guy that was 20 times what Bob Dylan thought he was, and he got to that point without even trying. RIP, Phil. a-g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 What if the psychotic people are the only people who are sane' date=' and living in the real world, and all of us are living in delusion filled dreams?[/quote'] Possible, but entirely untestable and also not the most parsimonious assumption, so rejected. I've realized that reality is subjective, and no one human being will ever see the complete, concrete reality, because what we see as reality, though we think of it like we're staring at the world through the windows that are our eyes, But we're not. If our eyes weren't fairly good at transcribing what is actually happening around us into information that our brains could process, we wouldn't have evolved them. So, yes, your eyes do give you a fairly good (though very incomplete and occasionally faulty) picture of the world. What you experience as reality, what I experience as reality, hell, even what crazy robert* sees as reality, is nothing but a picture in our heads. Our brain takes input from out senses and constructs what you think of as the world in your mind. What you and i see, hear, feel and experience as reality could be nothing like the actual, concrete reality, and the reality you experience might be nothing like what i experience. Again, while an interesting thought experiment, it is untestable, requires too many assumptions, and is entirely unpractical (if all of reality is an illusion, doing anything in it is pointless). Rejected. What's really scary about this is that what crazy robert sees as reality could actually be closer to The REAL reality than what you or i see. Could be. However, no reason to assume so. You know what i think drug induced psychosis is? I think it's the result of seeing the real reality, having your mind opened. I think that people who realize the real meaning of life go crazy because they realize that their life means nothing. An inconceivable speck of insignifigance in a giant universe. I think that if you examined the brain of someone with drug induced psychosis, they're probably using more of their brain than normal people. Normal people use their entire brains (despite that they don't act like it). That we only use a small portion of our brains is an urban myth. Drugs are actually one of the things that can STOP us from using our full brains, as neurotransmitter use can be hindered by them. All the evidence is against you here, and you're basing your hypothesis off a faulty premise. Rejected. I think that the reason we don't use the majority of our brains is because we are not ready for the kind of knowledge something of that proportion would entail. I think we only have it for things like hallucinogens and such to temporarily activate those parts, so that we can glean a quick glance at reality. when we have evolved to the point that we can gain the knowledge of the universe without going completely insane, the rest of our brain will unlock. Again, we use our entire brains. As this idea is based on a false premise, it is rejected. Did you know that you get over a horrible thing easier than an annoyance? Because People don't realize this, but your brain has a defense mechanism that warps facts to be positive so you can get over things without getting manically depressed. This mechanism doesn't "kick in" for small annoyances. The world we live in, or rather, the worlds that we live in (as i said, everyone's perception of reality, and by extension, the world, is different) Is half reality and half illusion. If our brain didnt warp the facts, we would all go crazy because we can't handle the truth. While your perceptions are altered by your biases, preconceptions and certain other factors, half real and half illusion are hardly the ratios for the vast majority of people. Again, if a large portion of our experiences were not real, we would have been outcompeted by other organisms better able to distinguish reality from fantasy and humanity never would've evolved in the first place. Rejected. P.S. The recognition that my life has no meaning to the universe as a whole is, to me, quite the opposite of crushing... it is freeing. It enables you to determine for yourself what meaning your life will have, to live it as you see fit, to not have to bend to something else's will but rather to be the master of your own fate. I find life's lack of meaning to be one of the best things about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brsingr Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Did you know that you get over a horrible thing easier than an annoyance? Because People don't realize this, but your brain has a defense mechanism that warps facts to be positive so you can get over things without getting manically depressed. This mechanism doesn't "kick in" for small annoyances. The world we live in, or rather, the worlds that we live in (as i said, everyone's perception of reality, and by extension, the world, is different) Is half reality and half illusion. If our brain didnt warp the facts, we would all go crazy because we can't handle the truth. I have a source for this. the things we see arent half illusion, the way we perceive them is. Our brain cooks facts to make things seem less horrible. "Stumbling on happiness" - Daniel gilbert He's a reknowned psychologist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Also, though i find it hard to beleive that concious beings, or life in general for that matter, simply resulted from a random chemical reaction, without some kind of divine being giving it a gentle nudge, I also find it hard to beleive that there is any real purpose to our lives. When i attempt to imagine the vastness of a universe which, from what i understand (assuming the holographic universe theory is a dud) simply expands forever, into infinity, I almost go insane, due to the fact that it's human nature to expect everything to end at some point, and the concept of infinity is mind boggling. What are we but small, insignifigant specks on this one little rock floating in the universe. How could anything we do possibly have any signifigance on the grand scale? I think, though it's a depressing thought, we simply dont matter. I think the search for the meaning of life is simply the inability to accept this. To a huge point we are insignificant, everything we do has no 'real' meaning when considering the endless scope of the universe. However I believe it is important to remember that whilst on the 'infinate' scale of things we are nothing, on a 'rational' scale we are everything and everything we do has an effect. This is something I truely believe, life isnt about focusing on the me or the us. Its about focusing on the whole. Our lives have meaning by how we affect other people, the greater the love, the care, the understanding the greater effect our own lives will have on others. Life is about the small things, the tiny gestures many of us over look or show no real appreciation for, a clear night sky, the power of an intense lightning storm, a small smile from a stranger in the street. Its not about buying a huge bunch of roses once a year, its about buying one small rose every single day of the year and sharing it with as many people as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djriacen Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 In my opinion, through experience, hallucinogens just change your perception of things. They don't have an effect on reality, just the way you perceive it. Which, to some unfortunately, is better due to.. well.. whatever. Either way, we use all of our brains, if we didn't we wouldn't be the, 'dominate,' species. I suggest you read the Doors of Perception by Aldous Huxley, he had it pretty much down. Its more of an essay than a story but I found it worth the read. edit: Also, that book was the inspiration for Jim Morrison and the gang in naming the Doors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deykari Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I generally refuse t o getinvolved in these topics because i'm pretty cynical. i think we're all just at the mercy of whatever chemical reactiosn go oon inside us and that we are inveitdtlablty bound by these chemical processs. a belief in some form of fate if you will. Deya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djriacen Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Drunk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I have a source for this. the things we see arent half illusion, the way we perceive them is. Our brain cooks facts to make things seem less horrible. "Stumbling on happiness" - Daniel gilbert He's a reknowned psychologist I know of the study you're thinking of. However, you will not find in that study anything to support the notion that our experiences are half illusion. The emotional impact of an event is lessened, but that the event happens (and that you still recognize the event as having happened) is not disputed at all by the findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brsingr Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I know it does. It's hard to explain what i'm trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 You should've included DMT in your thingy Brsingr. I've never done it, but of all the controlled tests, and this that and another thing that scientists do, there is a striking similarity between each person about seeing and experiencing almost the same thing. Not that this disproves reality or anything. Any kind of drug alters how your brain works, hallucenigens more so than others, and all that does is let you see things from a different angle. Everything you see on a trip was in your brain to begin with, drugs don't create thoughts. In my oppinion psychoactive drugs delve more into the subconcious and opening it up rather than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-guitarist Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Have fun tripping on acid to see the real world. Maybe you'll bomb out on seven or more hits, kill someone, and then you can enjoy the real world in a prison cell and we won't have to hear the pointless ramblings of some fifteen year old kid who thinks he know the real world more than anyone else. ****, man, I thought I left people like you in 4B... at least there I knew they weren't crying out for attention and that they were seriously dented in the brain. Why don't you go join the Branch Davidian, sell all your fake possession to the Scientologists so that they can stay afloat, ('cause you don't need them), and realize that if you're right, we're all hallucinations or fake like the rest of the world... so no point talking to about it to us. There is a story on the internet floating around where a Philosophey Teacher has a final exam where his students have to prove the table he has in the front of the room is there. Everyone in the class writes pages upon pages explaining it, and one "smart" guy just writes, "what table?" and walks out. This has a few points... simply because you want to make a point you can't dismiss the rest of the world "just 'cuz". Further, the simple fact that the table is there proves it is there. Because you have no means in which you can disprove the existance of the computer infront of you, and that everyone and everything you know and see can phyiscally interact with the computer should they come in contact with it, means it is there. I don't want to admit that the condoms in my drawer next to my bed are real. Why? They've been there for over a year... I'd just like to explain to everyone, "nah, they're figments of my imagination, and your's, so that must logically prove I've been laid every day for the past year." But it doesn't. Instead, I have to sit and deal with the fact that their shiney, golden packaging is a big "F.U." to my existance every day. Same for anyone looking at the tree out their window, the mountains on the horizon, or mildew on the grout in their shower. So instead of reality getting me laid every day, it has screwed me every day. a-g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Twendrist Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Yeah, reality is reality. Perception on the other hand, that can be disputed. Perception of events, even colors and stuff... but yeah, when it comes down to it believe what you want, but if you choose to believe the reality we all live in is fake... well, prepare to accept the consequences that come with said oppinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djriacen Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Damn, a-g he's just a kid.. Don't have to be so rough on him. He'll learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-guitarist Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Sometimes you gotta toss 'em off the peir and hope they learn, or are lucky enough to catch the right current. a-g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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