A little venting from an old vet

[Cephirus]

*I posted this on the old forum as well*

This is not meant in any way as a flame, just a little venting from someone who has not ever really vented to much on the forum. I have been playing since FL opened, I loved it. My friend told me to check it out, I had been playing AR along with that person for about two years and enjoyed the areas and gameplay in AR, but felt the RP was lacking, unfortunately I came to AR was in it's downward spiral. Then I created a duergar cleric on FL and I started ranking. I saw an immortal on and I figured I would check out if he would interact with me, and to my surprise, he did. He was really curious and interested in my thoughts on the mud and throughout the life of that character, I interacted with that immortal. I will not name who it is, because I do not feel it is important, any of the other immortals interacted with me just the same, the point is the more people that would log on every day, the less immortal interaction there was. It is understandable that less interaction would occur on a one on one basis, but there was still interaction, especially with those characters that either a: stood out by being impressive and well known, or b: just being dedicated and not giving up. Now to the reason I have written this post. I, about two months ago, created a dark-knight and was going for her to be a vamp. I wrote what I would consider a decent application, and I role-played. I logged on every day for about four weeks. I did not hear a single word, except someone asked me after the second week to resend my application. I did so and waited another two weeks, still playing my *** off with the character. After recieving no interaction, no response, not even an immortal coming to speak with me, telling me that they were interested in me, but I needed to do more to prove myself, even that would have been nice, but in the end I ended up hating the character and deleted. I imagine if I had stuck with it, I probably would have become a vampire, but after putting so much effort into it, and recieving next to nothing in support, it is very difficult to want to continue. I understand that immortals have lives as well, and I do not expect them to always be available, and that they have things that will take them away from the mud from time to time. What I would like to see though, is more immortal interaction and not just from the lower level immortals. For a stretch of approximately four months I did not log on, and I came back to a new staff. Since this new staff has been around, I have not seen one higher level immortal on, beyond level 55. I think it is a shame. It could be that I just happen to log on whenever they are not, but I log on at all different times of the day, so I find it unlikely. So I ask this of the immortals, for the sake of FL and it's players, please interact with us more in game, we really need it, it makes this game 10 times more fun. Well that is pretty much all I have to say, I hope everyone finds this as somewhat constructive criticizm, and not a flame, because I love this game, and I do appreciate those who do put in their hard work into making it run.

[Calron]

Let me first say, I only mean this to be constructive. Yes, we all agree that immortal interaction is fun, but you cant expect them to create rp opportunities for you. That is something you need to do yourself, and you will find that if you actually try, rping with other ppl in game can be just as fun and fullfilling as with an immortal. I'll have to play devils advocate here I guess, but I'm pretty happy with the interaction we get from the current staff. Most of the times there are immortals around if you need them, and if you rp well (pking well helps too I've found, just since it makes you stand out more and get noticed), you will get immortal attention.

To address your other point, most higher lvl immortals keep themselves cloaked most of the time, for reasons best known to themselves.

[Nympha]

That was one of the most excellent constructive criticizm-non flame posts I have read in a long long time. I understand and concur with you. That of course being because when FL transfered over to the New imms, I couldnt go one day without some sort of IMM interaction, being from IMPS to regular low level IMMS. Now days, I am lucky to see IMMS logged in at all. And yes I do log on daily lately, and sporatically through out different times, ranging from 6 am to 6 mp or midnight or 2 am.

I know what it is like to be an IMM. I know what it is like to be constantly busy, I know what it is like to get frustrated but I also know what it is like to feel immense pride and reward towards being able to interact with IMMS or Morts alike. The satisfaction I got as an IMM and the satisfaction I get from interacting with IMMS is immense.

While at it, I would like to thank all the IMMS for all the work that they do put into this game. We really do appreciate it.

[Nympha]

Let me first say, I only mean this to be constructive. Yes, we all agree that immortal interaction is fun, but you cant expect them to create rp opportunities for you. That is something you need to do yourself, and you will find that if you actually try, rping with other ppl in game can be just as fun and fullfilling as with an immortal. I'll have to play devils advocate here I guess, but I'm pretty happy with the interaction we get from the current staff. Most of the times there are immortals around if you need them, and if you rp well (pking well helps too I've found, just since it makes you stand out more and get noticed), you will get immortal attention.

To address your other point, most higher lvl immortals keep themselves cloaked most of the time, for reasons best known to themselves.

I do not think that he is asking for Immortals to create RP for him. Rather asking that Immortals interact with Mortals more. Immortals come and JOIN in on our RP. Not create it for us. We are more than capable of creating our our own RP but the satisfaction of having an Immortal join in on the RP that you have worked so hard on creating is a reward in itself.

[Calron]

I roleplay because I enjoy doing it, not to get a "reward".

Edit: Retrospectively, that sounded rather insulting alone. What I meant is that the roleplay is rewarding in itself.

[Dalzame]

Calm down before things get hostile. I know what you're trying to say, but people might see you as coming off as arrogant, or cynical.

I agree with Cephirus, those were the days. If what Nympha and he says is true, then that's a downer. I haven't been here in a while so I wouldn't know, but I know that Imm interaction is always great. It enhances the reason people enjoy RPing, because it makes it a little more fun. That's why it's "rewarding".

[FatMike]

I agree and disagree at the same time. I know what I want to say I just can't put the words right so it doesn't sound like arrogance or telling you how you should play. I'll give it more thought and respond a little better but you do have a valid point, but you can't expect interaction unless you initiate it about 90% of the time. Send notes, RP with some level 50's that you know, send tells if you see an IMM online(don't bug them). Getting an app approved is one of the more strenuous things we morts do. Cabal apps usually take a day or two to be approved and you're in so that's almost instant gratification. Qclass/Qrace take much longer unfortunately but that's the way it is. I don't have any patience at all, most especially when I feel I'm busting my butt with a character. I can very quickly begin to feel underappreciated and can very quickly grow tired of what I assume is going no-where. More than likely it is going somewhere you just don't realize it.

I believe at the time of this character, there were 3 other vamp apps and at least two undead/demon apps and that's just for the level 30's that I recall staying at level 30 for an extended period of time not to mention any number of avatar/crusader/psion/cabal apps they may have had to look at. Maybe with that many apps for that level for that certain qclass it was simply taking longer to evaluate each individual and decide who deserved what.

Anyway, what can I say besides I'd love to see the entire staff on but it won't happen so I settle for a little smile when one or two is on. Even if I have no desire to interract with them, at least they are there. Don't be like me and give up on a character before you find out a. why your app isn't approved or b. that you just didn't give them enough time like I always fricking do. I even like it when Raargant is [OLC] and not wizi :eek:

I also don't see anything wrong with approaching a totally different IMM for something that they have little to do with ie. Eshaine about an avatar app, as long as it's done tactfully and IC I promise you'll get some sort of response.

I play this game way to much for way too extended periods of time but I regularly see 6 55 and below imms on and 1 59 and rarely does a day go by that I don't see one at all. Been awhile since I saw a 60 but just imagine how inundated with tells and prayers they would be if they were vis, just imagine it.

[krounoi]

Just as a devil's advocate here. I still play the game with my mortals, and one thing that really turns me off, is when someone decides to RP with an imm, but doesn't have the time to do it with other players. I have purposefully sought people out with my morts, just to see how it is handled. And I am not speaking of any one person here.

RP is Rp, whether with imms or other players, it doesn't matter. Hell with NPC's, who cares, it is your RP. Higher level Imms have a ton of things to do, and us low level imms are what you are left with. I have been here since the beginning, and I can count on one hand how many times the Imms sought me out for RP. The game is what you make of it.

This isn't meant to be a flame or even a critiscm, because I believe you are right in that imm presence might not be what it once was. But I do know that there is a lot of work to be done, and the higher ups are the one's that do the bulk of it. How is a lvl 55+ going to be visible at all times, when he has to watch so many things, including perspective applicants. Of which there can be any number at any one time.

Most of their evaluations have to be done wizi, so they know that players aren't just putting on a show. Now adays, it isn't a popular thing, but Patience is a must. Sorry if that sounds like a broken record, but it's true. Nothing comes without effort.

[Icor]

Explaining why the problem is the way it is isn't fixing the problem. It’s true; activity between mortals in immortals is very slim compared to what it used to be. Immortals have the ability to paint a picture of the world that the mortals live in with a single echo, because every mortal tries his or her hardest the MOMENT they know an Immortal is involved. You can feel the adrenaline, and crack your knuckles, ready to show your stuff. Immortals are more like elements of the universe rather than characters; they can play NPCs, where the only alternative is for a mortal to abuse Smotes, and that isn’t taken nearly as seriously. Some players RELY on Immortals to help develop their characters, simply because of the powers Immortals have to display the activities of a thriving, living world.

[Nympha]

Just as a devil's advocate here. I still play the game with my mortals, and one thing that really turns me off, is when someone decides to RP with an imm, but doesn't have the time to do it with other players. I have purposefully sought people out with my morts, just to see how it is handled. And I am not speaking of any one person here.

RP is Rp, whether with imms or other players, it doesn't matter. Hell with NPC's, who cares, it is your RP. Higher level Imms have a ton of things to do, and us low level imms are what you are left with. I have been here since the beginning, and I can count on one hand how many times the Imms sought me out for RP. The game is what you make of it.

This isn't meant to be a flame or even a critiscm, because I believe you are right in that imm presence might not be what it once was. But I do know that there is a lot of work to be done, and the higher ups are the one's that do the bulk of it. How is a lvl 55+ going to be visible at all times, when he has to watch so many things, including perspective applicants. Of which there can be any number at any one time.

Most of their evaluations have to be done wizi, so they know that players aren't just putting on a show. Now adays, it isn't a popular thing, but Patience is a must. Sorry if that sounds like a broken record, but it's true. Nothing comes without effort.

And we understand this, even I. I dont think what we are saying is that we demand now. To me it is more of an I miss situation than anything. I RP with everyone, even mobs. I am and love to RP. I can spend hours on end talking and debating with mortal enemies. It enhances the PK when we do find eachother and kill eachother.

However, IMM interaction is extremely rewarding. Point in case. Queen Isabeau, rest her soul, spent hours and hours on end, not only RP'ing with Mortals but IMMs. She was in countless RP plots, she spent literally thousands of hours IG and she is immortalized with a street named after her. No in no means take this as we RP for the rewards. That is not what I am saying. But the IMMS do have the Ability to "recognize" and reward RP if it is superb. Players can recognize, give props, but not reward.

Take this for example. I love working on a farm. Would work on a farm every day for free if I could. However, if I were offered to work on a farm AND get paid for it. Hell yah I will take that. Why not get recognized(paid) for something that you Love to do?

To me it is also like admiring. At least for me. I admire the work the Imms put in their job. When I admire someone, I like to interact with them. I like to RP with the imms because beleive it or not, most of the imms are superb RP'ers. You can learn things from people with Superb RP. Same as you can with mortals but come on....they are IMMS! :eek: They are Awesome!

[Nympha]

Ok. I take it all back. Just interacted with Two IMMS and am having a blast tonight!

[English lad]

Hell i'm drunk and I'm not sure how much sense this will make.

Can't even remember who it was by, but I'm going to paraphrase a quote that I find relevant.

'The RP you seek will not come from the staff, nor the Immortals, the RP this MUD needs will come from each and every one of you.'

OK yes I'm drunk...but its New Years....

Doesn't this strike a note with anybody else?

[Magick]

Can't even remember who it was by, but I'm going to paraphrase a quote that I find relevant.

'The RP you seek will not come from the staff, nor the Immortals, the RP this MUD needs will come from each and every one of you.'

Very much so. You give, you get. Nearly always. Though some times things like tonight just fall into your lap. At current, I can't really see an enterance. Well, maybe an enterance, but not very far. Not right now. Definately not in a few hours. Perhaps I can weasel myself deeper into it somehow. Definately not as a smoking corpse. So that option is out.

Quitting while I'm ahead. Liquor starting to get the best of me.

[Zrothum]

I'm drunk. I dont understand smoiing corpse.

[Icor]

Where's ElfDude when you need him.

[Chayesh]

In his honor...

w00t!

[Mudder]

I agree the wait for any type of response with Vampires is insane. Also, Chayesh is in charge of that.. And hes a high up imm thus lots of work. AND i'm sure he wants to snoop you for a long time before he even chats with you.

Anyway I got some imm interaction tonight and I had fun.

(Wow i'm not drunk, thats weird.. Whatever, I was drunk last night! woohoo!)

[Anume]

Just a few points I'd like to drop in here:

It is really frustrating for an Imm who tries to create rp if the char he tries to rp with either just totally ignores whatever he is echoing, just rolls his eyes and walks away or (old favorite here) just kills the low level mob that just started chatting with him. I've also been told straight out "Leave me alone I'd rather go on training my defenses." Of course, this is fortunately not the norm but it gets quite frustrating.

Then the point Krounoi made already earlier, most of the Imms play morts, some well known, some not known at all. I think many of us test if a char that seems to have good rp when you interact with him as an IMM does also have good rp if you interact with him with a totally unknown char, perhaps not even a rank 50. (Personally I hate the attitute "You are just a lowbie noob, why should I rp with you or take YOUR rp seriously." )

Third and last point for now, if you want to rp with an IMM, be interesting in some way. Be it that you have something totally weird in your description when you ask for an approval, be it that you sent an interesting ic note, be it that you sent an IMM a not stereotype tell. Even a yell can raise interest, just remember that the IMMs will just not always have the time to rp.

[Magick]

Since you bring up echos, you do narrow the choices on who that was in Winter. I had a blast!

I'm quite supprised though. I'm seeing quite a bit more imm/player interaction of late. Means one of two things though. Either imms have more free time, or I've been in the right place at the right time lately.

[Anume]

Don't think that one was I

[Magick]

*scratches head* Ah well. One down. Six to go.