My brother

[ainbimagh]

I despise the you killed my brother (MY OTHER CHARACTER) excuse for neutral pk

[Raargant]

Note it to us. That's OOC motivation.

[Fiere]

I don't really see the need to have an excuse, unless it's a good killing a neutral. Course, my neutrals are usually neutral chaotic self-serving greedy little monkeys.

[ainbimagh]

And that would be why lots of neutrals are outcasted.

[WarriorCleric]

Fiere, are you serious? First, if someone kills your character, and you sign on another to recipricate, thats multing and against the rules.

Second, everyone needs a reason to pk. At higher levels more thin reasons will hold, but everyone needs a reason for pk. It's a rule.

And if you're playing a neutral who goes around killing anyone because you feel like it, that's evil. And you are abusing the system to play an evil that is not affected by alignment restricitions. Which is, you guessed it, against the Rules.

WC

[Fiere]

First off, I was joking around. Sheesh. Second, I wasn't agreeing with the reason the guy attacked. Third, I generally DO have a reason. Usually it's because I was attacked first. Fourth, I usually play evils, rather than neutrals, though all of the above still holds true. I'm not a COMPLETE putz, though I do have my moments :}

[WarriorCleric]

I'm all for sarcasm in posts, I use it all the time, Hell, it's why most people here hate me. However, if you use it you can't blame anyone else for not picking up on it if you don't go the extra miles to show that it is actually sarcasm, so here is some advice from someone who's been at it for a long time:

For the initial post, over the top is always the way to go with sarcasm. Subtley only works with people you know. Not the community.

The response, mockingly the style of post is never a good way to not look like a complete bag of feminine discharge.

Saying 'Sheesh' comes of childish and unarmed, you really do lose ground with that kind of comment. If you want to show your distaste, say something, I recomend more sarcasm. Were I you in this case, I would make a comment about how 'It's okay though, WC, it's not like you've been misunderstood before.' Hell, find a post where it's happened. I'm not sure about this one, but on all previous forums, about half of my posts were misunderstood. You gain so many points on the *** score board if you can slam a post down someone's throat. You'll be suprised as to it's affect.

Capitalizing words is wrong, just never do it. Seriously, that's not an *** thing, or a sarcastic post thing either, that's just proper use of the internet. You could bold a word, underline it, italicis it, something other than capitals and even those are kinda tacky. And in this case, being a two letter word, just kinda comes of as condescending. Alright, in some cases it a complete capital word is okay, but not this one. I find the best way to emphasis a thought is to, you guys and gals guessed it, add more sarcasm. Just that little bit of extra fluff makes people think a little bit more.

And outside of 'I generally do have a reason' I wouldn't post anymore about what you usually do, or play, it just makes it personal, and no one really wants that. Hopefully noone will really care, but posts become personal like that, with sarcasm, then things look towards flaming, which is completely different from being an ***. Not that you flamed by any degree, but someone else may run with what you posted and so starts a flame war, that you never wanted, and may not be a part of, but people are going to see that you were the root of it, and you get blamed for it. It sucks.

You tried to pull the end together, but you capitalized another word, seriously, just bad. Otherwise ending on a joke is always the way to go. I am always of a fan of a selfdepricating joke.

But keep in mind, you made a mistake. Not me. You could have maintained some amount of highground if you had just said 'I was joking...' but you really came off in a way you didn't want to. I did my time with comming off that way, and these are a few of the things learned time and post. Believe them or not, but it's meant as a helpful guideline for being an ***, not me being an ***... anymore than I am.

WC

[grannym4n]

[sarcasm=sort of]Damn WC, you're an ***.[/sarcasm]

[Pali]

My stooge seems to be having a bad day.

[Fiere]

I'm getting burned all over the place. I think I'll just try to muster whatever dignity I have left and leave the topic.

[Mister E]

I don't really see the need to have an excuse' date=' unless it's a good killing a neutral. Course, my neutrals are usually neutral chaotic self-serving greedy little monkeys.[/quote']

In fieres defense:

1) It is pretty clear what he is saying in his first sentence. WC you obviously misuderstood it, because in no way does it suggest that the ooc/multi thing was justified. All he was saying is that in most cases (ecept good vs neutral) you dont HAVE to have an explanation ready. Sure you need a reason, all things are done IC and for reasons, but more often than not nobody finds out about them unless they ask. Many people pk without direct rp with their victim, and many thieves steal without warning beforehand or bragging about it afterwards. There are countless examples of things done IC without explanation needed.

2) A neutral chaotic can pretty much do what they like if it benefits them or their cause. Of ourse if they go on a ruthless killing spree for a long time that doesn't seem to match their race/class/clan rp the gods may decide they are infact evil. But I can easily see a neutral chaotic doing all kinds of bad things for his own enjoymeny/benefit/cause. I seriously doubt a neutral chaotic will get outcast for anything short of EXTREME actions.

3) SOMETIMES making a word all caps is a useful way of emphasising that word. As you said, it is sometimes difficult to convery emotion and even sarcasm in text, so one can manipulate the words to help other readers understand what they are saying. I for one encourage more punctuation and other forms of enhancement of text to really help people hear a voice, rather than just see a bunch of monotone text.

Anyway, ya'll have a nice day.

ps Fiere, I wont even charge you, I do some pro-bono work sometimes.

[WarriorCleric]

Seriously people, read that second post. That's god damned good advice on how to be an ***. Those of you long in the tooth here will remember that people hated me. Hell, lots of you still refuse to speak to me on aim or in pms. But I'm still the same guy I was, it's just how people read me on the forum, partly because of how I represent myself now, partly because a whole horde of the jackasses left. How am I representing myself differently? I started making my responses far less personal, I started going over the top with my jokes, do people still think I'm an ***, I'd bet my life on it, but I'm now an 'acceptable ***,' you know, the kind people comment on being an ***. News flash, if the community titles you an ***, it's an endering term for someone who is loud, obnoxious, a bit callous, but not mean. Ignore the advice, I don't care, but that's what it is, Advice. I took specific examples, and explained how to do each differently. It is not some vieled flame.

Anyways Pali, today has not been anyworse than the rest of my days, and I don't see how this thread is uncharacteristically me, in any way shape or form. I've not 'burnt' anyone here. I've not 'flamed' anyone here. Perhaps I've not changed as much as people thought...

And Mister E, I'll eat a bit of number one there, but you'll have to conceded that no where did I, or ever on any forum for that matter, say that you are required to tell people before attacking them or stealing from them. I have only said that you are required to have a reason to do whatever it is you are doing. You began argueing a different point, that noone has even brought up yet. So I jumped the gun on the multing characters pk issue, my bad, but you created the other issue out of thin air.

And I've already said,

Alright' date=' in some cases it a complete capital word is okay[/quote']. So thank you for backing me up...

Anyways, lets get more onto a debate worth having... one about fl.

That is, I don't know what game you are playing, but a neutal chaotic is not free reign to do whatever they like, that's evil chaotic. If not, explain to me the difference between a neutral chaotic and an evil chaotic then? And doubt it all you want, but it does happen, people get summoned to deep **** all the time for that kind of crap, and typically it puts things into perspective. And neutral chaotics running around killing whatever they want has always been a very gray area. But you can be self centered, mean, calous, be an all around dick, and do what you want without being cruel. Kill someone, it's certainly suppose to happen, but if you have to have a reason for it, and it better be something better than 'I wanted his bracer' if he is wearing a titanium bracer, because you can bloody well go get one yourself. Now, if he is holding a Vorpal Sword, and wearing a serpent wig, (or whatever is nice and shiny these days) then go ahead and kill him. That's an awful lot of temptation for an indifferent man to shoulder.

In a cookie cutter world, maybe think of it this way;

Goods won't give in to temptation, Neutrals will avoid temptation sometimes, Evils live by temptation. Then expand on that to go outside the cookie cutter.

Now maybe where our words are being minced is the 'do whatever you like.' Sure, neutral chaotics are supposed to do what they want, so long as those aren't purely for want of being evil, because then you are evil. I see no issues with neutral, or good, thieves just stealing the day away. It seems pety, but not cruel.

But it's nothing new, if doing whatever you want with a neutral is indistinguishable from doinging whatever you want as an evil, you will find yourself evil. It's just hard to enforce because you're never quite sure when your watching, but people get spoken too about it alot.(or they used to) I remember when this was a very big deal for quite a while, and I remember quite a few people being outcasted to evil.

I guess some more issues come with why can't neutrals be outcasted to good for never doing anything evil? What defines being neutral? What is the foundation of neutrality in alignment? Is there even a foundation? Or are neutrals far more swayed by their specific religion than their alignment? Should your actions dictate your alignment? Or your alignment dictate your actions? I think this is a far better discussion than me misunderstanding Fiere, then offering him advice that people inturn misunderstood.

WC

[Pali]

To be honest, I just said it because it seemed like a funny thing to say.

[WarriorCleric]

Figures...

WC

[FatMike]

You are an ***, I still love ya though.