Serinkane Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 its 2113 hours on a friday, and theres 4 people online.. wow We need to do something about uping the pbase, any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangelion Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 For the most part, it's not going to happen. We live in a generation where people either A) Need graphical stimulation or Want a constantly updated, ever-changing fantasy world. This is not a dig at our IMM staff, but that kind of presence requires the game to not be free, because they need to be funding the administration. The kind of up-to-date, constant changes that people want essentially makes being a coder a full time job. That requires monetary compensation, which is not something a free game provides. My prediction (as grim and pessimistic as it may be) is that, with small exception, what you see is what you're going to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypticant Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 The kind of up-to-date, constant changes that people want essentially makes being a coder a full time job. No, it doesn't. It requires a relaxation of the controls in place to "protect the purity of the game." If MUDs were run like real business applications (with source control and teams of developers) they would thrive. Problem is, those who run these MUDs control the source like it was written by Jesus. Don't believe me? Ask Viri. He and I are working together on an open source project. Sure, we control the source control, so we can roll back. But anyone can contribute. The very reason these things are stagnating are because players treat the Imms like they are irreplaceable, and Imms treat themselves like they are cross bearers. But don't take my word for it. What do I know? You want new stuff? Convince the powers that be to relax the controls on the source and allow it to grow organically. Or, don't, and it will never evolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Wait, so are you Jesus? Edit: As in, I liked that. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Bah! What does Crypt know!? (Though i'm not sure I would trust our p-base either with the crap they come up with ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grosek_ Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 There are a number of things that continually turn myself and others off about mudding here in general. That lack of graphics have nothing to do with it. You have people taking leave from here continually. You need to stop blaming them and start questioning why exactly that they do. In my case, I just brought the players I had introduced to mudding from here over to another mud. That is not because I applied for IMM and didn't get it, even though it admittedly was a contributing factor. It was because firstly, they didn't like the player community (the newbs I brought), and secondly I feel like I have no control at all over the ability to help change the things I know need to be changed. The control does need to be loosened. The attitude of staff vs. mud has been one of strangulation since Bryntryst. That was fine although still sickening back when Viri was the lone ranger here, but now that this mud is in the critical state of dissolving... the powers that be need might take a hard look at how they are doing things. They are not directly suffocating the mud, but they are doing so inadvertently (Both with administration policies and code policies). I don't blame them though, it is how things always had been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypticant Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 That's why the main developer can nuke that garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telufial Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 hmmm.... crypt right on the money again. stagnation. yay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 There are a million threads about this already... ...of course I can't agree more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 No, it doesn't. It requires a relaxation of the controls in place to "protect the purity of the game." If MUDs were run like real business applications (with source control and teams of developers) they would thrive. Problem is, those who run these MUDs control the source like it was written by Jesus. Don't believe me? Ask Viri. He and I are working together on an open source project. Sure, we control the source control, so we can roll back. But anyone can contribute. The very reason these things are stagnating are because players treat the Imms like they are irreplaceable, and Imms treat themselves like they are cross bearers. But don't take my word for it. What do I know? You want new stuff? Convince the powers that be to relax the controls on the source and allow it to grow organically. Or, don't, and it will never evolve. What, exactly, are you suggesting when you mean an 'open source MUD'? A MUD where anyone and everyone can access shell to put in changes as they see fit? That sounds very messy, and very susceptible to douches who are pissed about IG decisions hopping in and messing stuff up (look at that one guy who copy/pasted a bad FL review on TMS every day for weeks). I'm not setting up a strawman argument or anything, I'm genuinely curious but not quite sure I understand what your proposal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Voodoo Doll Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Good thread, let's keep it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Pracyntict created a new website on 12-23-2008, 05:54 AM. http://www.aabahran.com/ http://www.theforsakenlands.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15196 We are now at 21/02/2009. And we still do not have a Mudwebsite. The TMS link still redirects you to this Foruns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WagesofSin Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Absolutely, I can't recommend this game to my friends showing them a website like the one we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Yeah...the website isn't the problem. I would blame shisty play driving away usual suspects. No numbers results in no one new. I'll just use my quote again and not point fingers...Just cause you can, doesn't mean you should... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypticant Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 A MUD where anyone and everyone can access shell to put in changes as they see fit? If you've never been a developer, then this does NOT apply to you. Those who write code for a living know precisely what I'm proposing. So, if you don't know anything about software development (open source or otherwise) don't embarass yourself by saying ridiculous stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 If you've never been a developer' date=' then this does NOT apply to you. Those who write code for a living know precisely what I'm proposing. So, if you don't know anything about software development (open source or otherwise) don't embarass yourself by saying ridiculous stuff like that.[/quote'] Rather than just mockingly informing him of how wrong he is, why not just explain what you meant? I too am curious but I, like many other members of this community, have never been a developer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 If you've never been a developer' date=' then this does NOT apply to you. Those who write code for a living know precisely what I'm proposing. So, if you don't know anything about software development (open source or otherwise) don't embarass yourself by saying ridiculous stuff like that.[/quote'] Calm your hinny down. I wasn't 'saying' ridiculous stuff, I was asking you a question regarding clarification of a proposal you made, because I genuinely do not fully understand how your proposal would work in the context of a MUD. I wasn't ridiculing your idea or setting up a strawman argument, I was trying to wrap my head around and understand it. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are simply annoyed because you interpreted my post as belittling your idea (when in actuality, I am genuinely interested in the sound of it but was hoping you could elaborate), rather than you just being dickish. Most people, shockingly, don't code for a living, but that doesn't mean we don't have a vested interest in this MUD; mine, for example, is paying for the hosting of the damn thing. So, for the benefit of those of us who don't code for a living but still have some say in how this mud develops, would you like to take this chance to once more clarify your proposal? Alternately, you can simply mock my lack of software development knowledge again, and we simply drop the subject and the proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icor Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 If I may... Predictable intermittent reward is what motivates people to work, thus the invention of things like the bimonthly paycheck. If FL had a steady evolution as opposed to randomly strewn bursts of awesome changes/fixes, I'd play a lot more often. I don't care who does it, just as long as they care about FL and want to see it flourish. That being said, I think relaxing the "trust-barrier" is the best thing that could happen to this MUD. I can only think of a few simple factors that go into whether or not you give certain permissions to people or not: do they love FL, do you believe they will dedicate to it, and do you believe that they will make the game more enjoyable for its players? I may be a little naive, but this is the kind of thing that separates designers from art producers in my field. Designers care about the client's needs and generally want to help solidify the appearance and effectiveness of a company's look. An art producer just takes orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raargant Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 With regards to the website, there may have been some miscommunication. We are currently discussing the situation and hope to have everything all sorted out soon. Thanks for everyone's patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I honestly have a hard time hearing that the Staff acts self righteous. Perhaps I am just old school but I think the current staff is incredibly good at listening and hearing out the claims of all of it's players, if they go about the proper channels. There have always been and will always be certain elements of the game that are not up for debate. If I remember correctly and I am quite sure I do Virigoth was quite fond of the sandbox analogy. When has the current staff ever said to anyone to get used to it or leave? Sometimes I think the strictness of the old days is something that kept the players in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I honestly have a hard time hearing that the Staff acts self righteous. Perhaps I am just old school but I think the current staff is incredibly good at listening and hearing out the claims of all of it's players, if they go about the proper channels. There have always been and will always be certain elements of the game that are not up for debate. If I remember correctly and I am quite sure I do Virigoth was quite fond of the sandbox analogy. When has the current staff ever said to anyone to get used to it or leave? Sometimes I think the strictness of the old days is something that kept the players in line. Oath to that. If you've ever tried to tell SIRANT ANYTHING, you'll know what being told to shut up or **** off means. The current staff is amazing at listening to every bodies whining and ideas (mine included). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grosek_ Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I am sorry, I must have been unclear. When it comes down to having a problem, or having an honest inquiry in game.. they are usually there for you (however there is always a feeling that they are the parent and you are the baby. The whole immortal thing bugs me, as it is now.) They are great in game. When it comes to the forums, it is usually a different story. I could backlog and count the number of times people were ganged up on and bashed ,then banned, for criticizing the same thing that later was acceptable to talk about once there admins got it through their skulls there was a problem. There is a pattern of chronic elitism on this forum with both staff and players included. Also a pattern of chronic ***-kissing. That is what I was referencing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grosek_ Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hrmm, seems the admin saw fit to delete my last thread. Adios folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypticant Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 If you've ever tried to tell SIRANT ANYTHING, you'll know what being told to shut up or **** off means. Always a bad idea to TELL Sirant anything. ASKING would have been a better approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Yeah, Sirant was a lot like a super Raargant...you usually just give in and listen because 99% of the time they are right and you are...well not so right. However, if by slight chance you are right and they are wrong, they are both the type to listen to justified reason...at least in my case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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