BigPapa Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Are some items in game just over the top? Are they any items or combination of items that could make someone nearly unstoppable? Is this something that you value? To have those things that can make you unstoppable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouselessRogue Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Nothing makes anyone unstoppable. Every class has a "bane" class that is tough for them to handle and almost all of the High End equipment has drawbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPapa Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 So one on one, Class vs bane of class. Bane of class will win in basic equip mithril, vs class in uber set, with skill being equal between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouselessRogue Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I didn't say that. I said no one is unstoppable. Certainly with the right gear you have a tremendous advantage but I have seen and/or been the underdog and won in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 There are things that make you very difficult to kill but not impossible. For example a DK with -60 saves and +60/+60 Hit/dam can be very hard to defeat. Specially if he has a L10 malform. But there is where the Ninja assassination enters. Unless we are talking about classes that can see hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 And don't forget that even if the underdog DOES win, the uber-geared man has life-insurance...so not all is lost (or gained..)! Most EQ is alright...the equipment that has oprogs is usually what puts things 'over the top' in my opinion... non-weapons that poison, armor that cures, weapons that cast spells, USE-able unblockable damage, and so on... cursable + burnproof weapons should never exist (unless very special conditions) and certainly not for mages/communers... ... overall, I feel that equipment should be generally weakened...mages with 1000+ hp is not so uncommon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare_from_hell Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 overall, I feel that equipment should be generally weakened...mages with 1000+ hp is not so uncommon And most mages need that hp because they don't get anywhere near as much defense as any melee/rogue. They might get heavier damaging spells, but that doesn't really matter if you can't take a beating long enough to use enough of those spells. Even against an Ogre or a Fire Giant the mage is facing 1200hp+ with minimal aid from equiqment. A mage can only hope to get 1100+ with lots of hp equipment, especially for a Faerie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 overall, I feel that equipment should be generally weakened...mages with 1000+ hp is not so uncommon this plz. no more god suits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigPapa Posted March 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 And don't forget that even if the underdog DOES win, the uber-geared man has life-insurance...so not all is lost (or gained..)! Most EQ is alright...the equipment that has oprogs is usually what puts things 'over the top' in my opinion... non-weapons that poison, armor that cures, weapons that cast spells, USE-able unblockable damage, and so on... cursable + burnproof weapons should never exist (unless very special conditions) and certainly not for mages/communers... ... overall, I feel that equipment should be generally weakened...mages with 1000+ hp is not so uncommon Celerity, Your response is right on target. On a seperate note, How much in +HP can you get? I have giants with less hitpoints... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Are you guys not exaggerating ? What is wrong with 1000 HP's ? 1000 HP's mean that they have weak saves, as most GOOD HP equipment gives little saves. I dont see any problem with that. I have seen warriors take me 150 HP per round on a Cleric. I can imagine what a mage would suffer. That is 7 rounds of combat from 1000 to dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare_from_hell Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Mya, I can hit 1000hp+ and still have on average -40 saves across the board, anywhere between -10 to -20 for spell. The sacrifice you make is in hit/dam, but that is not an issue for an invoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Nightmare please show me a Score sheath. Just for discussion sake. I believe in you, but i ... dam... Invockers need Mana gear to... Are you a gnome ? To be frank, i have a Avian 900+ Base HP Bmage, but it costed me 250 hours of my life, and this is quite a exception. I also have a Drow Invk, with 500 base HP,but 1400 mana. ------------------------------------//------------------------------ Another thing i wished to refer, was weapons. Giving people average 30 Vuln weapons that cannot be disarmed/droped is a bit over the top. At will, with no need of rares. I am not talking about malforms, that is another thing. Al thou i find fun those heavy Wrath weapons, i can imagine the Pain Undead feel. Can you imagine a Vampire being bashed by a Storm warrior dual wielding two average 30 light whips ? It's not fun. Now imagine your Dwarf zerk being bashed by a Vamp dual wielding two average 30 Water whips ? Or a Ogre ranger ambushing you with those plus a water bow ? Good thing Dwarves have 1000 Hp's. I doubt Undead reach that kind of HP's. In my opinion Weapons Damage should have a Rule: - 50's weapons easy to get: average 25. + something. Think of Sabre. - Special weapons between 25 and 30. - Uniques of average 30, but only Physical damage or basic Magic Damage. - One handed vuln weapons, with max of 22 average. - Two handed vuln weapons, with max of 25 Average. Average 30 Light,Water,Air,Wrath,Fire is just over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Nightmare please show me a Score sheath. Just for discussion sake. I believe in you, but i ... dam... Invockers need Mana gear to... Are you a gnome ? I have had a faerie invoker who basically went around with two sets of eq (switch out five or six things depending on foe) - one for melees, one for mages/communers. Anti-melee had me with -400 ac or better, over a thousand hp, and over 1600 mana. Anti-communer had me with 900 hp, -50 saves across the board, same mana. The only item I had from any of the big eq areas like Dess or Dischord or Gear was the Fleshworks. Everything else was from Winter or random other places. Not all invokers need +mana eq. It's specifically that which is why I love faerie invokers so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Im not sure I agree with celerity in bringing down the eq strength. What we have to rememebr is that gaining that sort of equipment takes either unusual skill (solo) or a great deal of time to aquire not to mention the fact that EVERYONE is trying to aquire the same pieces as high end eq only has 1-2 pieces in existance. I would also have to agree that there are what I call 'key' items when im building a characters eq. And often they are the same no matter the class eg: Abyss, spell absorption, mask of discord, rod of time, worn sleeves ect.. With these 'key' items you can make any class pretty unbelievably buff but there again they are very very rare and gaining all the pieces on one char is something of a mission. Not only that but they do not ensure success, I had an unbelievable set of eq but still couldnt beat Triathix due to his regen and a certain cabal skill, oh I might of come close but you cant attrition an ogre ranger and its damn hard to out power one sometimes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I definitely agree with Celerity when it comes to bringing down the strength of the higher end eq (and I'd love to see common eq get a bit of a bump up so that it's not pure stupidity to fight in it). Personally I've never once had any of those pieces of eq you mention Aulian... I shudder to think of how ridiculously strong chars of mine would be if I had them. And by the way... you may have had an uber-suit against Triathix, but given what I know of the guy, I'd bet he probably had one (or very close to one) too. We're not talking about you in an uber-suit getting beat up by a guy in mithril here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare_from_hell Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I have had a faerie invoker who basically went around with two sets of eq (switch out five or six things depending on foe) - one for melees, one for mages/communers. Anti-melee had me with -400 ac or better, over a thousand hp, and over 1600 mana. Anti-communer had me with 900 hp, -50 saves across the board, same mana. The only item I had from any of the big eq areas like Dess or Dischord or Gear was the Fleshworks. Everything else was from Winter or random other places. Not all invokers need +mana eq. It's specifically that which is why I love faerie invokers so much. Ha ha... Faeries can't wear the Fleshworks, silly. But anyways, yes. I was more speaking of Faerie Vokers (who have a lower base hp to begin with) since they have the higher mana, not to mention Mystic religion. Mya: /---------------\/----------------------------------------------\ | Nethanar || the Angel of Arcana | \---------------/\----------------------------------------------/ | Str: || Level: 50 Sex: M Age : 55(78h) | | Int: || Class: invoker Ethos: neutral | | Wis: || Race : faerie Align: good | | Dex: || Hp : xxx/721 Exp : 66376/525624 | | Con: || Mana : xxx/1551 | \ Lck: [||||--] \/ Move : 461/461 +Hit: 6 +Dam: 4 / /---------------/\------------------/\--------------------------\ | ARMOR || SAVES || Deity : Valganti | | Slash : -293 || Spell : -18 || Faith : Mystic | | Pierce: -292 || Afflictive : -27 || Weight: 243/265 | | Blunt : -298 || Maledictive: -14 || Items : 31/38 | | Magic : -225 || Mental : -30 || Prac : 16 Train: 0 | | || || Gold : 36k | \---------------\/------------------\/--------------------------/ Nethanar is using: (Magical) (Glowing) a golden sun (Glowing) (Humming) a Ring of Fire something. (Magical) (Glowing) (Humming) a broach of wizardry nothing. (Humming) the scalp of the Gargantuan Squid (Glowing) (Humming) a diamond earring (Glowing) the robe of Archmage Tuo (Magical) a pair of decorated arm bands (Magical) (Glowing) (Humming) a pair of runed-black gauntlets adorned with a heartgear (Magical) (Humming) the Crabshell leggings pair of Slimy Boots (Magical) (Glowing) a cloak splattered with demon blood (Magical) (Humming) a belt of white dragonhide (Magical) the Djinni bands (Magical) a copper bracelet adorned with a large ruby (Magical) (Glowing) (Humming) a staff named 'Retribution' adorned with a black heart (Magical) a golden mask (Glowing) (Humming) the Mara'deth Kier nothing. That's a few good wares, no where near decked for my Vokers. The hp in this score sheet is low because I don't have the wares right now, but my saves are at approximately -24 average (not counting vs spell). However, I have 1550 for mana, plenty for a Voker. I used this score sheet cuz it was the first I came across which sort of showed what can be done (save for the hp part). If I find one that was logged when I was actually as decked as I ever was as a Voker, I'll update it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cephirus Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Ha ha... Faeries can't wear the Fleshworks' date=' silly. [/quote'] Normally you would be correct, his faerie was neutral... and he PWNED!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mya Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Nethanar score is missing the Stats part. With that score sheet, i could probably land Mals 1 out of 3. That means Energy drain would eat you up. No luck eq. But i guess +40% HP covers that fault in meele. Thanks for the Score sheet. I see a pretty balanced Armor. By the way, DK's should get an ability to check peoples saves/scores. They would become so much more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare_from_hell Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 As I said, that was a sub par suit. And yes, Sociucant ripped me apart with energy drain. And I removed the stats part for specific reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare_from_hell Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Normally you would be correct' date=' his faerie was neutral... and he PWNED!!!![/quote'] TRAITOR!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest emp_newb Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Ok. This has been said MANY MANY times. A god suit of rares is only a nice thing to have. you do NOT need a huge suit of uber rares to win. It does help yes. But you can lose just as easy in a god suit as you can in rings and mithril. There is NO replacement for training, and knowledge of the game. You CANNOT neglect training and expect to win, flat out. It just does not happen. So train before you gear, or you will not keep that gear. RE: Maya It does not matter if saves are 100+. All classes that cast mals, except necro, have spells to drop saves. You train those skills, use those skills then you go about it just like you would if they where poorly armed. This plays back into my spat on training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Ok. This has been said MANY MANY times. A god suit of rares is only a nice thing to have. you do NOT need a huge suit of uber rares to win. It does help yes. But you can lose just as easy in a god suit as you can in rings and mithril. There is NO replacement for training, and knowledge of the game. You CANNOT neglect training and expect to win, flat out. It just does not happen. So train before you gear, or you will not keep that gear. RE: Maya It does not matter if saves are 100+. All classes that cast mals, except necro, have spells to drop saves. You train those skills, use those skills then you go about it just like you would if they where poorly armed. This plays back into my spat on training. I had some witty remark but it just left me... Damn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest emp_newb Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 I had some witty remark but it just left me... Damn You have to have wit to have a witty remark. Perhaps it did not leave, perhaps it was just never there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 burn ._. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Pffftt hardly a burn when the person calling you out about wit is bloody emp_newb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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