Hit Point Gear

[Sirax]

If a character of mine is wearing equipment that boosts his hitpoints will he be deemed to have that amount of hitpoints each time he ranks and thus at some times not gain as much as he would without? hope that comes across ok :eek:

[Ali_gmud]

I'm pretty sure you'll just get the same hit points as you would, with or without hp+ gear. You'll just get your usual gain as per normal.

[f0xx]

I've always wondered the same actually

[Ali_gmud]

All the +hp from the gear just stacks ontop of your standard hp.

The only thing that confuses and leaves me questioning is the whole, if your wearing something that takes your con down, would you still gain the same amount of hp as you would, if it was on full... does that make sense?

[Tom]

Of course it makes sense. I would be inclined to think that you wouldn't get that extra HP if your con was brought down. It works the opposite way, so the other should be true.

[Mudder]

Ali_Gmud is correct. HP eq does not make you gain any less hp than normal.

The same goes for training hp/mana/move before you hit pinn. It doesn't change anything.

[Pali]

Tom is also correct. You will gain less hp/mana ranking if your stats affecting them are being lowered by eq.

[Mudder]

I should run a few tests if -1 con makes much of a difference. I have a big hunch it doesn't.

[Vech24]

The same goes for training hp/mana/move before you hit pinn. It doesn't change anything.

Wait so, this means that training HP before pinn doesn't screw up your HP gain per lvl? I could've sworn I stumbled across a post that said otherwise. It be nice to get some confirmation on this so I can burn some of these horded trains.

[f0xx]

I've stumbled upon MULTIPLE posts saying that actually.

[Mudder]

Wait so' date=' this means that training HP before pinn doesn't screw up your HP gain per lvl? I could've sworn I stumbled across a post that said otherwise. It be nice to get some confirmation on this so I can burn some of these horded trains.[/quote']

It's an old rumor/old wives tale that was created from guesses out of fear. It's a bad enough thought to just be safe and not train until 50. I got sick of it and did a LOT of testing.

It does NOT affect hp/mana/move gain per level. Though I still wait until 50 just so I can see what I need, since I rarely if ever put trains into only hp.

[HouselessRogue]

We are all very acquainted with your "Trains for Moves" campaign. You're not getting my vote, stop wasting your time.

[Mudder]

Lol. I've received PMs from a lot of people who said, "I tried training moves like you said. Wow, I'm so glad I listened."

I've got testimonials to prove how awesome it is. Just like an infomercial!

Don't train moves. That's fine. It'll make it easier for me when you run out of moves while running away from me in a PK.

[Reccum]

I could see a pure assassination ninja benefitting from 700+ moves. No need to hide, just run circles around the target and study them silly.

[Mudder]

I've only ever said train it 3 times. An extra 90 moves does a lot more good than 30 hp.

[Twinblades713]

I'm one of those guys who sent Mudder pms. Train moves. I'll say it for him. If Mudder is chasing me and you, guess who'll get tired first?

[Celerity]

hp/mana/moves growth IS influenced by your BASE hp/mana/moves at the time of the level gain.

This means that if you pump all those trains into hp, as you get them, you will likely have SLIGHTLY less hp at 50 than if you had waited until 50 to apply those trains.

hp boosting/lessening equipment doesn't change the base value so it doesn't need to be removed everytime you level up.

However, stats (constitution) are calculated from the modified value---if you have -1 con, you will see a slight decrease in your hp growth.

The system will try to average your growth out to reach an 'average' level 50 hp/mana/mv baseline. If you apply trains early, you will gain slightly less as the system tries to accomodate to that baseline (in this case, the system might judge your HP is too high and give you slightly less). This change might NOT be noticed because you happened to have too much/too little HP for your rank as it was anyways. In the long run however, you will still likely have a bit more than the baseline, but still less than if you had waited.

The idea behind this was so that people wouldn't spend all of their time trying to get 'perfect' low level growth boosts so that at 50 they have an advantage.

This was the system as Virigoth described it and there is nothing in the change log to suggest any modifications...

For me, one interesting thing to test might be to have a lower con for the first 25 or so ranks, giving you a low HP but more trains. Then, boost your con with equipment to normal. Will your 'target baseline hp' at 50 adjust to the new con? Does this mean you will see very high growth for those ranks, effectively negating the low con (as the system tries to adjust your below average hp to the new baseline)? If that baseline is adaptable, there are a few ways to manipulate the system. This might be a way to scrape a few more bonuses, especially for any race that is expecting a con change when the application is accepted.

[Raargant]

Celerity is correct, and her explanation dovetails with my experiences and my understanding of both the system, and the reasoning behind it. It is not an 'old wive's tale'.

[Grumpy]

I'm in the no difference camp. In my experience playing here, I have noticed absolutely no difference. There was a prior time when I fell in love with one class/race combo and would take it to pinn over and over. I tested this theory then and found no difference. My highest hp reached was actually when I used my train for hp as soon as it was available.

[Aulian]

I'm one of those guys who sent Mudder pms. Train moves. I'll say it for him. If Mudder is chasing me and you' date=' guess who'll get tired first? [/quote']

Him... If you know how to run I can guarentee you moves will mean nothin. There are VERY few people who can keep up with me, (although through Dumela my chasing got much slower ) not only that but there are also very few people who know the bolt holes I know, or alteast they always fail to find me in any of them.

Its not always about how far you can run, but how you run

EDIT: And Cel's right, thats the system as I have always understood it and experiments prove it right, although at times the margin is so small its unnoticeable.

[-Totenkopf-]

I always thought the system worked as Celerity stated.

I never really remember experimenting that much, but I always used my trains @ 50. Also have to agree with MV. I've never run out of MV in a PK battle, not even fighting something that can poison or plague (I always manage to get it removed). If you run out of MV's running from someone, I think you're doing something wrong.

I cant really talk at the moment, if I make a PK character, I put $50 on me sucking the penis! Newbie!

[Zhokril]

hp/mana/moves growth IS influenced by your BASE hp/mana/moves at the time of the level gain.

This means that if you pump all those trains into hp, as you get them, you will likely have SLIGHTLY less hp at 50 than if you had waited until 50 to apply those trains.

hp boosting/lessening equipment doesn't change the base value so it doesn't need to be removed everytime you level up.

However, stats (constitution) are calculated from the modified value---if you have -1 con, you will see a slight decrease in your hp growth.

The system will try to average your growth out to reach an 'average' level 50 hp/mana/mv baseline. If you apply trains early, you will gain slightly less as the system tries to accomodate to that baseline (in this case, the system might judge your HP is too high and give you slightly less). This change might NOT be noticed because you happened to have too much/too little HP for your rank as it was anyways. In the long run however, you will still likely have a bit more than the baseline, but still less than if you had waited.

The idea behind this was so that people wouldn't spend all of their time trying to get 'perfect' low level growth boosts so that at 50 they have an advantage.

This was the system as Virigoth described it and there is nothing in the change log to suggest any modifications...

For me, one interesting thing to test might be to have a lower con for the first 25 or so ranks, giving you a low HP but more trains. Then, boost your con with equipment to normal. Will your 'target baseline hp' at 50 adjust to the new con? Does this mean you will see very high growth for those ranks, effectively negating the low con (as the system tries to adjust your below average hp to the new baseline)? If that baseline is adaptable, there are a few ways to manipulate the system. This might be a way to scrape a few more bonuses, especially for any race that is expecting a con change when the application is accepted.

Your current hit points in no way affect how many hit points you will gain. The notion that the system moves everyone towards a target goal is also not correct. It does that only insofar as there are obviously different hit point gain ranges depending on class, and the natural con stat max for each race. Bottom line, use your trains when you want.

[Mudder]

Booyah! I love being right.

Take that!

EDIT: Lol.

[Celerity]

Let's not be premature...

When Zhorkil speaks it isn't exactly the end all of arguments...

I'd much rather put my money with Raargant (and Virigoth) than with him any day

Barring some super-secret unannounced change...

[Greyanhk]

hp/mana/moves growth IS influenced by your BASE hp/mana/moves at the time of the level gain.

I couldn't find that function call in the code that was released to the public.

I've heard this argument quite a bit over the years and I can't find where the call to even out the base hit points so at 50, you have your hit points falling into a predetermined range. I think this is one of those mysterious FL rumors that started in 1.0 and migrated.