Charge

[Ali_gmud]

Does a minotaurs charger differ from another race of warriors charge?

I know there is a cooldown for when you can charge and stun, does this apply for minotaurs or are they able to keep you stun locked with fleeing and charging?

[Sandbox]

warriors dont get special minotaur charge. Anyone who says they do is confused, only bonus mino WARRIOR gets is that they can charge with any type of weapon because of horns.

[f0xx]

Warriors actually DO get special charge, just not the bonus axe strikes.

Usually there is a timer to charge, mino warriors/zerkers do not have it. Zerkers also get a few free hits on the target if they wield axes.

[Ali_gmud]

I might of said it incorrectly.

I know that minotaurs can charge over and over again and stun their victim senseless.

I'm pretty sure, not postive but I'm pretty sure that when a warrior of another race charges they can only stun once, then they must wait another 1-2 hrs until they're victim sees the message "You feel you can be charged again"

[f0xx]

Well yes, that is basicly the only difference and the fact that as a minotaur you charge with your horns rather than your weapon, which means, as SB said, that you can charge with whatever weapon.

[Sandbox]

that you can charge with whatever weapon.

which can actually be really cool with a certain weapons that stun and most people cant charge with.

[Sandbox]

"You feel you can be charged again"

not sure, but i think this only happens with blackjack and strangle and stuff, charge i think can be done over and over with any race, provided you can get outof combat that often. Just like sleep you can sleep someone as many times as you want provided you dont poison / plague them.

[Ali_gmud]

I appreciate the advice

but my question still goes unanswered.

But I think I already had the outline of my question answered in my head

I just wanted to have it confirmed by someone who knew their stuff.

[Mudder]

not sure' date=' but i think this only happens with blackjack and strangle and stuff, charge i think can be done over and over with any race, provided you can get outof combat that often. Just like sleep you can sleep someone as many times as you want provided you dont poison / plague them.[/quote']

Not true. With any other race you can try to charge again, but it will just "miss." Only Minos can do it repeatedly. I think this is too much and needs to be toned down. I've been lagged to death like this, unable to input any commands.

[Sandbox]

Paladin mounted charge is far worse and they can heal, i dont think its really that bad,

[One Way Up]

Minotaurs, as previously mentioned, I believe is the only race that can sufficiently 'chargelock' someone. Every other class who gets charge will get the stun on the first charge, but if they flee and charge again, they will still damage the opponent, but will fail to lag them. And, from my own experiences, the charge will be less damaging.

"You charge into someone, but fail to stun them."

It's something like that.

[Ali_gmud]

Thank you and thank you.

So unless you're class has counter, you're screwed against minotaurs that are smart enough to use that tactic.... Tassin.... Goku.

[Mudder]

Smart enough, or more correctly I assume you mean cheap enough.

[Reccum]

Even if they can counter....just blind them first.

[f0xx]

Well, the tactic is not THAT easy to be used, even if you are in warmaster.

Also as tassin said some classes are better to be bashed, some have counter and double counter, others have firestorm.

If you compare minos to the other races they are quite lacking and if it wasn't for their charge I doubt anyony would play them.

But as Mudder said, I also think that charge is a bit too much. Perhaps it can be done a timer, just like other races have, but when you charge instead of 2 rounds you would get 1/1.5 rounds.

[Sandbox]

yes, lets take away the only thing that makes minotaur zerks playable... Minotaurs have no real bonus other than that, their ac is horribly low they only get axes, every other giant race can dual wield any two weapons. He's right if minotaurs lost their charge ability i wouldnt play them at all, ever. That would be like taking shed and trip away from sliths, or autosneak away from drow/elf.

[Mudder]

yes' date=' lets take away the only thing that makes minotaur zerks playable... Minotaurs have no real bonus other than that, their ac is horribly low they only get axes, every other giant race can dual wield any two weapons. He's right if minotaurs lost their charge ability i wouldnt play them at all, ever. That would be like taking shed and trip away from sliths, or autosneak away from drow/elf.

Sorry Sandbox but you're just dead wrong. Minotaurs can dual wield any two axes, this includes TWO 2h axes. NO OTHER RACE can do this. Giants can dual wield ONE 2h weapon and ONE 1h weapon. That's it. Minotaurs get a bonus for weapon/shield cleaving. Minotaurs can charge with any weapon, including staff. Minotaur zerks get a free round of combat when they charge, this alone is AWFUL for a caster/communer.

What we are saying is get rid of their ability to successfully laglock someone via charge. Caster/communers aren't meant to be lagged like this, otherwise they're merely sitting ducks. That is why they get protective shield and easy access to flight.

Monks can lag them, but it isn't as easy as charge;flee;return;charge;flee.

Even with this minor tone, Minotaurs would still one of the best berserker races. On par with ogre.

EDIT: Saying that something can be avoided does not mean it isn't overpowered. Yes, you can get the first attack but if they wait for you to input a command (which all casters/communers MUST do) and flee, charge, the cycle is started. Ogre healing was easily avoided by giving the ogre plague, but that didn't mean it wasn't too strong.

[Cephirus]

I agree that the Minotaur charge is a bit too easy to lag lock someone with. Their definitely should be a slight cooldown timer on it. Too often I have been locked by one doing the charge/flee dance, just waiting for one command to go through, only to have it go after I am already dead.

[Guest emp_newb]

Not true. With any other race you can try to charge again' date=' but it will just "miss." Only Minos can do it repeatedly. I think this is too much and needs to be toned down. I've been lagged to death like this, unable to input any commands.[/quote']

stop letting zerks charge you?

[Twinblades713]

stop letting zerks charge you?

Yeah. And whenever you let someone kill you under any circumstance, stop letting them do that. You don't need to give everyone the handicap. Just kill them.

In certain situations like cabal warfare, there are no options other than be charged. It's one of the combat specs that will happen. And, I've also been completely chargelocked. It's much more reliable than bashing or bodyslamming.

[Sandbox]

What we are saying is get rid of their ability to successfully laglock someone via charge. Caster/communers aren't meant to be lagged like this, otherwise they're merely sitting ducks. That is why they get protective shield and easy access to flight.

earlier you defended the fact that berserkers cant touch melee at all, now you want to take away their one advantage over casters? I've heard them referred to as the weakest class of all, taking away the most viable race's best perk will only drive them into the ground.

As i respect your opinion, its very hard to see where your coming from sometimes. :confused:

[Mudder]

I'm coming from the fact that while berserkers ARE completely underpowered, they shouldn't be forced to pick only one race that can only do one completely and utterly cheap/awful tactic.

I'd rather the power of berserkers stem from their actual skills and their uses. NO class should EVER rely on only one command. We already have warriors for that.

[Sandbox]

its the only reliable skill berserkers have....

i've seen berserkers with devistation and 103 rage fail to rage 4 times in a row..

ive seeen mastered headbut fail 3 times in a row

ive seen full fights where they spammed haymaker and it NEVER landed...

untill something is done to make up for how unreliable they are, you can start taking stuff away, its rediculous... This wont balance anything. If you cant see that roll a mino zerker and try to kill people without charging at all.

Edit- however i will agree, if they toned up other skills zerks rely on i would say its reasonable to have some sort of timer. but im 100% against taking anything away before the bigger problems with zerkers are fixed.

[Guest emp_newb]

its the only reliable skill berserkers have....

i've seen berserkers with devistation and 103 rage fail to rage 4 times in a row..

ive seeen mastered headbut fail 3 times in a row

ive seen full fights where they spammed haymaker and it NEVER landed...

untill something is done to make up for how unreliable they are, you can start taking stuff away, its rediculous... This wont balance anything. If you cant see that roll a mino zerker and try to kill people without charging at all.

Edit- however i will agree, if they toned up other skills zerks rely on i would say its reasonable to have some sort of timer. but im 100% against taking anything away before the bigger problems with zerkers are fixed.

Low dex zerks suffer in that department because alot of those skills involve a dex check

[Sandbox]

Low dex zerks suffer in that department because alot of those skills involve a dex check

heh, minotaurs have what 17 dex?? change that to a strength check since your slamming yor head against someone elses, and haymakers take quite a bit of strength to be effective.....