Vech24 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm the first to admit that because of my noobness my question may fall under common knowledge to the vet community here but I was wondering, how viable is a melee centric Ninja? As I was leveling up with my experimental Ninja it seemed like all the advice I was getting was to take Falcon Eye and be geared towards Assassinations. Do people have success focusing on other aspects of Ninjitsu? I know Assassination centric is pretty tempting as it's a class defining skill. Still though, it made me wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Firstly, ninjas are not a mele class. They are a rouge class, therefore they should not be played as meles. That said, there have been some quite successful ninjas which have been played like warriors - Grawrer (sp) for example. Playing an assassination ninja will get you no respect, playing a mele ninja though is a different thing. Especially if you manage to be good with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vech24 Posted March 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Firstly, ninjas are not a mele class. They are a rouge class, therefore they should not be played as meles. That said, there have been some quite successful ninjas which have been played like warriors - Grawrer (sp) for example. Playing an assassination ninja will get you no respect, playing a mele ninja though is a different thing. Especially if you manage to be good with it. I'm not sure I follow. You're saying that Ninja's shouldn't be played as melee oriented but to do otherwise is looked down upon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Yeah, basically. Assassination ninja always get a bad reputation for taking 'no skill' and so forth. This has always been a problem and really needs to be addressed. In melee, ninja are considered sub-par. Some combinations can work (stalker/feral/shadow arts), (pandemonium/undead/shadow arts), and (avian/avatar/knight/shadow arts) are probably the most famous for each align. As for the lores, death kiss and falcon are assassinate-only, with falcon generally considered MUCH more valuable. Shadow arts, doublesheath, and lotus scourge are for melee. Lotus scourge is generally considered underpowered now (in the past it was VERY strong). Doublesheath and shadow arts are both respectable choices (shadow arts used to be the most obvious pick), but I would probably go with doublesheath these days. In short, a melee ninja is viable. However, it is not usually a strong build (with the exceptions of the above) by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm not sure I follow. You're saying that Ninja's shouldn't be played as melee oriented but to do otherwise is looked down upon? You are misunderstanding me. A rouge does not mean study/assassinate. Mele oriented is one thing, playing like a mele is another. As for your original question, (Ninja Melee Viability), yes they viable. Not if they are played like a warrior though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest emp_newb Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 People whine about alot of crap. If you are assassinating enough people to get hated for it, consider yourself a good assassination ninja. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Well, the newb is right as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouselessRogue Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 It takes a lot more effort than people believe to be a very good assassination ninja. A skilled player knows several tricks to keep the ninja from getting the job done and in most cases, one slip on the ninjas part and its game over man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 It takes a lot more effort than people believe to be a very good assassination ninja. A skilled player knows several tricks to keep the ninja from getting the job done and in most cases' date=' one slip on the ninjas part and its game over man.[/quote'] I could not agree more. There were some VERY hard targets that I died maybe 4-5 times trying to assassinate. It's not always a fun or quick game. Lots of patience, lots of tricks and tidbits of ways to get places will make for a good, stealthy assassination ninja. As to the question, ninjas can be viable in melee, but it takes a bit more finesse to get a grasp of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Barnok dude, Barnok... Albeit he was played by despy... So... Hrmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Also ninja's could auto throw and have shadow arts back then, plus throw did more damage as did shadow arts. however I believe that is now balanced by giving them fired weapons. I found Double sheath a good option if you are wanting to fight someone toe to toe. Master throw, edge craft and envenom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Are we talking about the ninja back when shadow arts was internal damage? Pfft. I've seen ninjas go toe to toe with a Vampire wielding a vuln weapon the ninja couldn't use and the ninja came out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Reefer Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Whatever, I'll show all of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djriacen Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Is that sunn o)) on your avatar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim_Reefer Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflayer Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 feral watcher shadow arts, I stood toe to toe with warriors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megayeah Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I've had two doublesheath ninjas and I was impressed by the damage my throw dealt. Considering you can always strangle, blind/poison and then murder with the doublesheath you throw once in the begining and again when the opponent flees. Shadow arts is not the best choice for a melee oriented ninja (my opinion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I had an uncaballed neutral avian doublesheath ninja that did just fine in melee... just required some unconventional tactics and fast moving on my part, but I fought crusaders and vampires and did fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cephirus Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I agree that Ninja's are quite viable going for melee as opposed to Assassination. However, I would not simply count out being an assassination ninja. They take a great deal of skill, patience and a little luck to make it happen. Especially against many of the stronger players. Very, very few times have I ever been assassinated, and it was always because they were doing their job in not letting me be aware they were there. You can hate them all you like, but it does take a lot of skill to get it done consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I agree that Ninja's are quite viable going for melee as opposed to Assassination. However' date=' I would not simply count out being an assassination ninja. They take a great deal of skill, patience and a little luck to make it happen. Especially against many of the stronger players. Very, very few times have I ever been assassinated, and it was always because they were doing their job in not letting me be aware they were there. You can hate them all you like, but it does take a lot of skill to get it done consistently.[/quote'] LOL. Sorry I couldn't keep quiet on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 All I have to say to that is charge;flee;charge;flee;charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudder Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Haha. Well said Twin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 All I have to say to that is charge;flee;charge;flee;charge. So you assume I believe the charge;flee is not a cheap tactic as well? I'm not sure about that one. However I do know that taking it away completely would make an already underplayed class even less played. Though after Lamah I have noticed a huge influx of minos around. I made him originally to test watcher skills and because I wanted to be unique. As mentioned before there are alot of ways to stop or help slow down the tactic its the frail mages and communers that have a hard time, which is exactly what minos were designed for weren't they? I'm not saying this is the way it should be or not but I can suggest this..reducing the lag on the opponent (not the charger) to where the opponent can get a spell off sooner than the charger is able to initiate a skill or flee, or making it so you can only charge and stun maybe twice within the same hour. Other attempts at a charge will fail to stun with that hour or the next few. This change might make the ability less strong against the classes that have a hard time dealing with this strat. However as I am a strong believer of we shouldn't just keep toning things down without toning something else up. So my final idea would be to open minos to all aligns and see how that goes. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 Nah, what gets me is the evident possibility and probable likelihood of the charge lagging enough to flee, and get in another charge, much of the time. I've tested and looked specifically to see if this was the case, and I'd enter a command and wait for it to happen, only to see mr mino come in after he fled, and charge me once more. But I guess this technically isn't a mino charge thread. Regardless, I want to refer this to Celerity's proposal, which I think would be good for this topic as well, that might at least alleviate some of the necessity to use lame tactics. Uhh ninjas. Yeah, I still think they're viable in melee. My feral ninja stood toe to toe with a couple of warriors. I'm not great at the melee anyway, so I didn't dominate, but I faired better than I should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCaprice Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 I always considered Tetsunai to be the ultimate ninja and he use to assassinate like a mofo plus I've seen him lay down the law melee style too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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