Pre-50 game idea

This game is extremely well balanced...and theose newbs are dying because they have no idea how to prepare properly, and PK in this game is ALL about preparation.

What isnt RP enforced about it? Just because someone got killed by somebody they never met doesnt mean its not rp. Infact thats good rp. Take a real life example: Usually people get mugged by people they dont know and never met. If they knew each other they might be friends and not have assaulted one another. Then there is the case where people do know each other and hate each others guts, ie cabal warfare. I think FL is very RP enforced, thats why they have outcast flags and punishment for going ooc etc.

This game is extremely well balanced...and theose newbs are dying because they have no idea how to prepare properly' date=' and PK in this game is ALL about preparation.[/quote']

Preparation and experience.

and its that exact attitude I'm talking about. If we wanted a hack n slash, we would have one. If we wanted RP (which people claim they do) then you have to take an extra 2 seconds and see what the other people are doing. New people don't know not to hang out in Val Central Square to RP. They assume that since it is the middle of a main city that that is where you hang out to RP. That is how it is done in a huge majority of other computer games. If they are standing in CC and they have been for like 5 ticks and they aren't sancted...they are 1. not very experienced 2. probably looking to RP since it doesn't happen in most other MUDs. Newb friendly = taking those 2 extra seconds.

Anyways...back to ways to bring in new players without complaining about the brutality that is FL....

you know what? Forget this forum, I try to mention that if we want to retain new players we might want to chill out the slightest bit and I'm complaining. Screw it.

you know what? Forget this forum' date=' I try to mention that if we want to retain new players we might want to chill out the slightest bit and I'm complaining. Screw it.[/quote']

Didn't mean to offend you that badly, but thus far the conversations have been covering ways to make this mud better through game mechanics and to increase player base size, partially via advertising. I'm just saying most of us aren't going to change our RP/PK styles with certain races/classes.

Dude, I'll even let you have some of my chocolate fudge brownie ice cream as an apology. :eek:

Then most likely we won't be seeing much of a change in the Pbase size. Most likely if G Dub didn't want to be president he would still be doing coke and dodging those drafts. But he put down the straw and now he gets to ask people for $3.2 billion and no one looks at him funny (Ok, everyone still looks at him funny but not because he is asking for more allowance). Welcome to reality everyone, for some take you gotta give.

PS: Keep your ice cream, I'm sure it is great but my stomach is killing me right now which is probably why I am so hostile.

I am going to be unusually blunt in this post.

I think that KRins is speaking a very basic truth. The fact is that the type of game that FL is, right now, is fundamentally unappealing to the majority of gamers. Although it's a "PK/RP mud", I think it is quite telling that although the game is 'RP-enforced', meaning one must RP, on the PK side, it's 'PK-oriented'. Orientation>Enforcement.

For those who like PK/adrenaline rush, hack and slash, shooters, etc. etc., or even non-RP enforced PK muds are often better suited. And for those who primarily like RP, there are way too many competing modes of entertainment that offer that better as well. I am going on record as both IMM and player and saying that although FL is definitely RP-enforced, I would say that for the majority of the playerbase, RP is tailored for PK, and not the other way around. Players (and I am not saying I am innocent of this), when creating characters, often think of and go for a race/class combination that is 'strong' in their eyes, then create an RP for that combination so they can 'legally' make, play, and PK with it. Although one cannot say they lack RP, RP is neither our focus, nor our area of greatest interest, IMHO; that would be PK. Any of the 'RP-focused' newer players would see this, despite our official protestations to the contrary, and for those who truly prefer very detailed and meaningful PK.

Sure, we live in an RP world, but it's an RP world in which constant, near-nonstop violence is all but mandated by FL being described as a 'violent and brutal' world; in short, this is a game of violence and PK, but in a roleplaying atmosphere. Sure, we say that we have a lot of senselessly brutal and violent behavior because that is the type of MUD this is, but let's look at it from a more honest perspective; the type of MUD this is, is the type of MUD we want it to be. If there is senselessly brutal and violent PK in this MUD, it's because we as players enjoy it, and, IMHO, hiding behind the excuse that it's "just how the MUD is" is an exercise in sophistry, because we, as players/IMM's, can change the 'type of MUD' this is, any time we like.

To be quite frank, this niche that we occupy, the niche of violent and brutal PK masked and cloaked in RP is a small one, and one that is and can only be decreasing as the years go on. I am willing to go on record and say that FL, in terms of the current attitudes of us, the players/IMM's, will not expand, simply because our relative positions and attitudes, along with our size and diminishing niche, do not allow us to. Unless we decide to change and expand both our attitudes and niche, I do not foresee an expansion in the future, truth be told.

Hmmm...yes, I can see, as Raargant pointed out, that indeed, some do. BUT....we stay here for the RP! I can go find a PK mud anytime I'd like to.

But I once had a drow ninja who had no voice because a rival house had tried to kill him with poison daggers because he was too promising of a mage. He lived, but lost his voice and his spell casting abilities. I applied for the psionic speech, but didn't get it, which hampered my roleplay a bit, but I chose not to use detect invis, invis and my one spell.

When I say D&D players would love this, I point to the drow. Why would a drow kill someone? Because they're almost all arrogant and believe they own everything, including someone else's life. However, the RP here is so great, you don't have to play your drow that way.

I, for one, am not going to change, enjoy this niche we have, and believe there are more people like this. We are the pinnacle of what a RP/PK mud can be at its best without lending too much to the other. We do the best we can and constantly try to decrease the learning curve. However, the patience and frustration of another player cannot be tempered unless they themselves temper it.

FL demands the most from each of its players in return for what we have to offer.

RE: Raar

I see your point, but I don't fully understand it. I don't get the idea of an "RP only" MUD. Isn't that called a chat room? But you are absolutely right. PK is part of everyone's RP. Of course, it is. "Our world" is at war. If you design a character any differently, it would be as foolish as RPing your character as a rocket scientist.

While you may be accurate about the declining interest in this specific balance of RP/PK, I'm concerned that there may be other problems and that's what I've been trying to cover. First, I'm afraid that we're coming off as elitist. Second, I'm afraid that people who would love this MUD get driven off by working too hard to get killed. If these two bases are covered, maybe we can get a larger slice of a smaller pie.

I think the phrase "the way the mud is" generally refers to all the things that can't be fixed by a pwipe. The storyline, the cabal system, the skills/spells, it is a world at war and the players have to deal with it. It would take more than a change of players and imms to make the fighting go away and keep the war.

RE: Valek

Yup. We have decreased the learning curve but we've taken away all the "carrots".

No, no, no. Still a few carrots. They're just hanging way at the top of the banana tree. I see now. Thanks.

Seriously, the banana tree that is FL is growing carrots and there are a few left, but they're at the top of the palm leaves.

I'm going to put this even more bluntly than Raargant. Noone wants to play a game that it takes them two years to get to the top of the newb bracket when they can play WoW for a day and have the hang of it. That make it a little clearer?

Take it from someone Divine and Spiritual. Virigoth, Crypticant, and Athaekeetha designed this mud to be a certain way. They had a vision. I came here to examine this place because it had the idea of PK and RP balance I had always looked to implement in my mud.

But I became so addicted because this was what I wanted. I closed my mud and stayed here as a newb, a nobody.

None of us would still be here if WoW and chat rooms were better things. None of us would have stuck it out this long if we didn't truly enjoy the challenges and the characters that exist within this world.

We have two problems, one endemic and one systemic.

The endemic problem is that there is a certain very large gamer component that doesn't like the idea of possibly losing hard work. In FL, you WILL lose your hard work at some point. Only the veterans can keep their equipment longer than a month, and even the most elite will get full looted several times in a character's life. These gamers will never play FL beyond the basic stages. The first full loot will turn them off, and they'll drift away from FL. This can't be worked around without changing the nature of the MUD itself, which I am not willing to do. FL's nature is what it is. We are, as Myrek said, a world at war.

The systemic problem is the one that we're trying to address, which is that FL's smaller playerbase has resulted in a concentration of skill into a relatively few number of higher skill players. The solution is to ease people into the different levels of player here at FL. Just as quitting cold turkey is the hardest way, so too is becoming a veteran PKer cold turkey the hardest way. Some of us have done it, and feel we're better for it. That doesn't change the fact that it is hard. The players who are willing to engage in a game where you can lose literally everything on your next fight also need to learn the game in levels, and that is what we're addressing here.

KRin, this is nothing against you, but the game isn't changing, and asking it to is not the way to fix the lower pbase that we have. We DO need to figure out how to ease new players in, and how to let them know we're here.

I don't expect the game to change. I actually really enjoy feeling like their is another echelon to aspire to. I just feel bad when I tell some to try a game out and they come back with 10-15 logs of fights where they do scratches or can't land a spell, and the other person is doing MASS or worse. I try to tell them that experience is huge here and I can't hand out even the tiny bits I've learned. After a taking a cool moment to think, I would suggest that we all look out for the smaller guys in the clans our chars are in a little more. I'm not saying walk a cartel member through kills, but even just saying that you notice that they are trying is huge. I know I feel great when I hear that I am learning after someone kills me. Even if it is the tiniest smig of improvement. Just because you still have 75% Hp and 70% mana two pks in a row doesn't mean that there wasn't something they learned from the first time worth mentioning. If not, then perhaps we could give the slightest (and I'm not asking you give away key secrets and get yourself beat the next time) "concept" to consider for our next fight.

FL has gone through these blips in the radar before many times, and every time an almost magical influx of n00bs, some of which formed into regs, saved the MUD from *literally *a terminal inbreeding. FL is simply starting to inbreed again, except now the usual venues wont work again because no one is looking to MUDs or MUD site venues.

valek basically gave last plausible answer: non-MUD audience site venues. but this takes, probably at least some money. that sucks.

it would, at the very least, take some research into what are the hubs of some of the other sub-culture d&d consortiums out there on the web.

On the contrary...I have vacation from work coming up and after I finishing moving out of my parents house....(yes, that's right, I'm 24 and I still live at home... ) I plan on looking into advertising for us through various D&D sites for players who don't have enough the resources for traditional pen and paper get together in your living room and make fun of the poor sap who showed up last and has to player the cleric D&D!

And I do not intend for us to have to pay for any of it.

I feel pretty strongly in support of the not paying for it part.

Funny, I thought this thread was about positive Clan changes..? Hehe.