Andre Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 So yea. I was just wondering, is there a limit to your saves. I.E, If my afflictive is at 50ish would it make any difference at say like 100? Thoughts please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali_gmud Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 settle down. settle RIGHT down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deykari Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 I have no idea, code-wise, whether there is a 'cap' or whether there are diminishing returns on saves once you reach a certain point. What I do know is, if you start investing in ridiculously high saves, you are going to be killing yourself in other areas. You hear stories of people massing over -100 in a saves category (or maybe the combination of versus spell plus category) and that is massive overkill and the EQ needed to get that sort of saves will mean relinquishing the +hit/dam/hp/mana/ac EQ. IMO anything over -60 (-70 at a push) in any category with a vuln, and -40/-50 if you don't have a vuln, is overkill and you are much better off focusing on getting the other EQ (hit, dam, hp etc.) depending on your race/class. I suppose there are exceptions (there always are) but that's the rule of thumb I aim for. Dey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 I found a noticeable difference in aff saves at -60 and -110. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 I found a noticeable difference in aff saves at -60 and -110. I see. Were you a Vuln class at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 I see. Were you a Vuln class at all? No. I don't have alot of that specific experience... though. Testing vulns though, I know I've fought a couple of ferals and ogres that I couldn't tell if they had vulns or not, heh. So good were their saves. You can all but nullify most vulns with some effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reccum Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 I fought Invokers as a Feral and Communers as an Undead. Every extra save helps from what I saw. I never tried to cap my aff saves, unless it REALLY hampered my other stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulian Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 In all honesty mental is pretty important, with enough mental sanc and protection can soak up enough damage to make the lack of other saves alright. (no dispell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Way Up Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 In all honesty mental is pretty important' date=' with enough mental sanc and protection can soak up enough damage to make the lack of other saves alright. (no dispell)[/quote'] I agree. I've always found that -40/-50 svaffl is more than enough to take down invokers. Bolstering it up to -80/-90 may turn those MASSACRES into MUTILATES, or even less, but it may also cost your MUTILATES/maims in combat to drop to injures/decimates. Decimates can get the job done, of course, but as it was stated earlier, too much buffing in one area usually = gimping in another. From what I've seen, on all of my characters, I was really well off with -35 across the board, maybe -40 svsaffl. Of course, that really only came with a God suit geared toward saves/AC. All that's really needed, is just something that's going to allow you to deal out enough damage/land your own mals while they take 4-5 times to land plague, or outdamage you with afflictive spells. BUT....I'm no vet. Maybe their advice would be more fruitful.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbox Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 and i had someone trying to tell me the gear at 50 is not out of controll... lol -100 saves you could throw on sanc and go eat a sandwich come back and collect your spoils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iusedtobesomebody Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 The thing is, if your geared anti-spell that much, a melee is going to eat you along with your sandwich... An even mix will do more wonders than a skewed ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest emp_newb Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 As gogrash I had 85 affl saves, Deykaris faerie was casting at level 53, calling two jet steams a round for devastates at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Kind of sad how few invokers realize which spells work well against opponents with saves and which ones don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbox Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Kind of sad how few invokers realize which spells work well against opponents with saves and which ones don't... perhaps the "enviroment" wasnt ideal to cast that spell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reccum Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 He means that some spells are more saveable than others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre Posted April 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 yea so back to my point. Is there a cap or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 I found a fairly happy medium on one of my characters which allowed me to fight shamans and evil clerics without a problem whilst still roll anything in meelee. Was no need to swap armor for enemies, just make weapon changes. Seemed to work quite well. ---------------\/----------------------------------------------\ | Sslandith || the Master of War | \---------------/\----------------------------------------------/ | Str: 20(21)^3 || Level: 50 Sex: M Age : 25(186h) | | Int: 15(15) || Class: warrior Ethos: chaotic | | Wis: 15(15) || Race : (slith) Align: good | | Dex: 22(24)^5 || Hp : 415/987 Exp : 57274/534726 | | Con: 20(20) || Mana : 346/400 | \ Lck: [||----] \/ Move : 487/487 +Hit: 47 +Dam: 37 / /---------------/\------------------/\--------------------------\ | ARMOR || SAVES || Deity : Sylvantis | | Slash : -232 || Spell : -18 || Faith : Purity | | Pierce: -210 || Afflictive : -10 || Weight: 418/425 | | Blunt : -229 || Maledictive: -24 || Items : 39/40 | | Magic : -143 || Mental : -19 || Prac : 72 Train: 2 | | || || Gold : 373k | \---------------\/------------------\/--------------------------/ / Condition: You are in the prime of your health. \ | You are wanted for crimes. Use "crimes" for details | \---------------------------------------------------------------/ Alternatively, this was Loucheran, who usually ended up having to run from shamans of any worth. I'd be able to beat them down, but as most know, it can be difficult to finish them. So in time, they'd start to wear me down and I'd have to leg it. Level 50, 32 years old (301 hours). Race: HSlth (slith) Sex: male Class: warrior Hometown: Falen_Dara Alignment: Good Ethos: chaotic Lord of Battle of [PRAETORIAN] with 5891 crowns to your name. You have been cleared for a promotion in the ranks of [PRAETORIAN] You have 929/929 hit, 294/386 mana, 494/494 movement. You have 57 practices and 4 training sessions. You are carrying 35/39 items with weight 320/375 pounds. Str: 20(20) Int: 16(16) Wis: 16(16) Dex: 22(23) Con: 20(18) You have scored 542152 exp, and have 75692 gold coins. Condition: You are in the prime of your health. Luck: You feel lucky. Wimpy set to 100 hit points. You are standing. Armor: pierce: -449 bash: -454 slash: -460 magic: -232 Save vs Spell: -8 Affliction: -5 Malediction: 0 Mental: 0 You are utterly invincible against piercing. You are utterly invincible against bashing. You are utterly invincible against slashing. You are almost invulnerable to magic. Hitroll: 66 Damroll: 51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 If we're doing that, then yes. I have proof that the returns hardly diminish. Perniciant || Pandemonius of PANDEMONIUM | \---------------/\----------------------------------------------/ | Str: xx(xx) || Level: 50 Sex: M Age : 50(287h) | | Int: xx(xx) || Class: shaman Ethos: neutral | | Wis: xx(xx) || Race : demon Align: evil | | Dex: xx(xx)^4 || Hp : xxx/xxx Exp : 36491/xxxxxx | | Con: xx(xx) || Mana : xxxx/xxxx | \ Lck: [|||||-] \/ Move : xxx/xxx +Hit: 1 +Dam: 2 / /---------------/\------------------/\--------------------------\ | ARMOR || SAVES || Deity : Malchaeius | | Slash : -286 || Spell : -45 || Faith : Discord | | Pierce: -283 || Afflictive : -70 || Weight: 234/305 | | Blunt : -285 || Maledictive: -31 || Items : 33/36 | | Magic : -299 || Mental : -57 || Prac : 41 Train: 0 | | || || Gold : 57k CP: 6.6k | With those aff saves, my personal "high score" was taking a wound from a hellstream. True story. Edit: Though even with that kinda stuff, ice storms still hurt a bit, and call lightning was a total biotch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 perhaps the "enviroment" wasnt ideal to cast that spell? First, invokers have control weather, so they can make the environment be ideal in most areas. Second, I wasn't referring to call lightning anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Toten you played slandith and Loucheran? Loucheran was my hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflayer Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 With those aff saves' date=' my personal "high score" was taking a wound from a hellstream. True story.[/quote'] Didn't the Age of Suffering increase the defenses of demon/undead? I remember a backstab, without you "sanc" doing a MASSACRE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Crap. I totally forgot about that. Screw you Mindflayer, it makes me feel less awesome for getting wounded by a Hellstream. But I do remember your backstab on my unsanced, level 46 ***. I thought it was a LACERATE. That had me chuckling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Toten you played slandith and Loucheran? Loucheran was my hero. Yeah. Must have been alot of peoples hero. I spent alot of time saving peoples arses, lol. Rough character list of characters I had. Some rather short lived, some not. Early days - IE, 1.0 Arycan, Gnome Invoker, Savant Mortus, Illithid Necro Kollemine, Elf Bmg, Justice Loucheran, H-elf ranger Thakari, drow bmg Ghaerk, human dk, chaos leader Gaeleran, vampire Baelron, Illithid Psi Post 1.0 Azaghtoth, Vampire nexus Neraldis, Undead monk Syndi Faelerus, stone ranger, warmaster Eldranos, drow necro Loucheran, slith (restrung h-slith) knight leader Alesus, h-elf sader knight Thanesis, drow shaman syndi Halesus, storm giant warrior Lordoth, drow dk sslandith, slith warrior avatar amediarn vampire Eckdrez arcturvion lordoth Arycan melatorus (druid) arcamendus auriok urst ufzin grumblor (ogre warrior, think warmaster for a bit) lahstikeo linwee (psi) gaeledris amras (not quite psi -deleted) Isilwen (psi) So much wasted time :eek: Play period was 2000- ~2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Totenkopf- Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 If we're doing that, then yes. I have proof that the returns hardly diminish. Perniciant || Pandemonius of PANDEMONIUM | \---------------/\----------------------------------------------/ | Str: xx(xx) || Level: 50 Sex: M Age : 50(287h) | | Int: xx(xx) || Class: shaman Ethos: neutral | | Wis: xx(xx) || Race : demon Align: evil | | Dex: xx(xx)^4 || Hp : xxx/xxx Exp : 36491/xxxxxx | | Con: xx(xx) || Mana : xxxx/xxxx | \ Lck: [|||||-] \/ Move : xxx/xxx +Hit: 1 +Dam: 2 / /---------------/\------------------/\--------------------------\ | ARMOR || SAVES || Deity : Malchaeius | | Slash : -286 || Spell : -45 || Faith : Discord | | Pierce: -283 || Afflictive : -70 || Weight: 234/305 | | Blunt : -285 || Maledictive: -31 || Items : 33/36 | | Magic : -299 || Mental : -57 || Prac : 41 Train: 0 | | || || Gold : 57k CP: 6.6k | With those aff saves, my personal "high score" was taking a wound from a hellstream. True story. Edit: Though even with that kinda stuff, ice storms still hurt a bit, and call lightning was a total biotch. Thats all very good for a shaman. Try to kill an ooze with those stats on a warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Hehe... I remember trying to goad Ghaerk into coming for me as Galadran... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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