My last words would be...

[Iusedtobesomebody]

Full Loots

... are a common thing at 50.

... a must in cabal warfare.

... are just the thing to make people learn where gear is and how to get to it quickly and efficiently.

... suck when it happens to you, great when you get 2 or 3 good pieces off someone's corpse then sac the rest in a testiment to your faith and god.

... are part of a mudding career. it may have been your first, but it will definately not be your last.

... are an extension of your RP, as sirant said. why give that enemy all his toys back so he can heal and come after you again? take it all, make him waste time re-equipping while you full loot someone else.

... if am a good and i don't full loot an evil, i am not really good. if i am a savant, and i don't full loot a warmaster, i have no business being in savant. see where i am going?

... force you to explore and learn the land. grishnak personally taught akasha how to equip (over and over and over )

end of transmission.

fem-nec

Damn, that guy's smart.

[Djriacen]

He said toon a lot. Why is that familiar?

[goldbond]

honestly this place is always going to be a personal AIM-fest from here on out. that's really all's there is left. others can acknowledge that or not, either way it's how it works out- insofar as how much some truly new person is willing to put up with. really the best the veteran community could do is die off completely and immediately if they wish for any sort of regeneration of this game. that would help the game exponentially and immediately.

literally... everyone who knows the ins and outs of this game needs to stop playing. let new people as an entire playerbase and immortal staff start playing here and let some who are destined to develop pioneering RP and let some develop PK and let some develop both, but really at the end of the day for this MUD, the vets are actually the ultimate problem. they need to stop playing. believe me, brand new guys would plant a garden far better than the weeds you're producing.

since all that is impossible you could really say FL is very long dead. the only other way to be honest about Forsaken Lands is "we've been playing a long time, that's the way it is, we're nice to new people who ask for help, but really you're f****** "

no one likes me. what the **** do i care. i speak the truth and i know that.

[J.Twendrist]

A lot of the "vets" I've seen are fairly nice to new people. It's the dumb sh*t head vets that roll people over just because they can (rp or not). I have a list I've been collecting of people who have killed me who have not said a word, before or after the fact, that didn't collect a bounty. Some loot, some don't. Regardless, if this is RP enforced that shouldn't happen, right? I dunno, it bothers me, but whatever. I just think of it this way, if some fool needs to make himself feel soooo much better by just rolling over someone who is naked, hurt, fighting another person, or whatever, than let em have it. Obviously they don't have enough happiness in their lives.

[Evangelion]

People who make new forum handles to cover up who their previous identities are lame.

[WarriorCleric]

People who make new forum handles to cover up who their previous identities are lame.

Cue the rim jo...shot!

WC

[Aulian]

Lol....

I wonder who that was?

Bastard called me out on a couple of things, but he obviously didnt ACTUALLY know what he was talking about really? Just the idea...

Hrmmmmm.

[Grim_Reefer]

Come on guys, everybody knows Sandbox is Dobson.

[MadCowDisease]

there goes the only person i know here T.T

[Pali]

honestly this place is always going to be a personal AIM-fest from here on out. that's really all's there is left. others can acknowledge that or not, either way it's how it works out- insofar as how much some truly new person is willing to put up with. really the best the veteran community could do is die off completely and immediately if they wish for any sort of regeneration of this game. that would help the game exponentially and immediately.

literally... everyone who knows the ins and outs of this game needs to stop playing. let new people as an entire playerbase and immortal staff start playing here and let some who are destined to develop pioneering RP and let some develop PK and let some develop both, but really at the end of the day for this MUD, the vets are actually the ultimate problem. they need to stop playing. believe me, brand new guys would plant a garden far better than the weeds you're producing.

since all that is impossible you could really say FL is very long dead. the only other way to be honest about Forsaken Lands is "we've been playing a long time, that's the way it is, we're nice to new people who ask for help, but really you're f****** "

no one likes me. what the **** do i care. i speak the truth and i know that.

In a sense, you're right. If all people familiar with the game stopped playing and were somehow replaced by the same number of people playing who are all newbs, for a while everyone would be on the same page, nobody would be getting steam-rolled constantly nor would anyone constantly be doing the steam-rolling... everyone would be a pretty good match for everyone else.

Until a few months down the line a few people who have spent more time playing or simply pick things up faster than the others start figuring out the EQ areas, start figuring out the more advanced strategies, and become the new "vets" that everyone complains about dominating the playerbase.

Your "solution", Goldbond, if you want to call it that, is a short-term one at absolute best, even if it were implemented. Within a much shorter timespan than you think, you'd have the exact same problem (some people knowing more than others) but just with different names behind it. It'd solve nothing.

In the end, you're saying nothing more than "those who know how the game is played shouldn't play so those who don't know how the game is played have an easier time learning it". And that idea is one that I think is incredibly stupid, lazy, and downright pitiful in its pleading.

[-Totenkopf-]

honestly this place is always going to be a personal AIM-fest from here on out. that's really all's there is left. others can acknowledge that or not, either way it's how it works out- insofar as how much some truly new person is willing to put up with. really the best the veteran community could do is die off completely and immediately if they wish for any sort of regeneration of this game. that would help the game exponentially and immediately.

literally... everyone who knows the ins and outs of this game needs to stop playing. let new people as an entire playerbase and immortal staff start playing here and let some who are destined to develop pioneering RP and let some develop PK and let some develop both, but really at the end of the day for this MUD, the vets are actually the ultimate problem. they need to stop playing. believe me, brand new guys would plant a garden far better than the weeds you're producing.

since all that is impossible you could really say FL is very long dead. the only other way to be honest about Forsaken Lands is "we've been playing a long time, that's the way it is, we're nice to new people who ask for help, but really you're f****** "

no one likes me. what the **** do i care. i speak the truth and i know that.

I sort of agree. People with more knowledge and experience do make it harder for the younger players, but isn't this the same in every game? Isn't that why people play, to become better? To try and match the competition?

If you wanna come and own right off the bat, gaming in general isn't for you. I don't think you'll see all the vets leave as you said. It'd be nice to even the playing field a little. I sure know that a few of the changed/new areas got me damn well confused. I was more or less lost in them, died in a few of them due to walking upon aggro mobs. If the world was completely redesigned/rearranged with a large deal of new areas, the game would become quite a bit more balanced for newb vs vet. This game is largely knowledge based. xxx knows where to get xxx items, whilst yyy doesn't gives him a great advantage. You know what, it took me a couple of years to gather the knowledge I gathered, not a couple of days, or even weeks.

I rock back up now and find people talking about crap I've never heard of.. WTF is avalon and where is it? I still don't bloody know.

Aim is a very large issue. I used to talk to a few people out of game. Lay about was one of my mates brothers, and another one of my mates cousin (the cousin introduced us both to FL). There were also a few other aussie guys I came to know as well as Tet and a couple of others. Now I don't really talk to any of these people. I don't use aim anymore but still use my MSN account, of whom a few people added me back in the day. I don't actively chat to any of the blokes though, but I did send nekky (a fellow aussie) a message to say G'day, as I noticed he was still floating around the boards. I've just been reading through some old 1.0 logs, and noticed something. If I died on Ghaerk, I just wore my malform and got back into the action. With the 'god suites' that people wear nowadays, this isn't a viable option. You either log off and log back on when you're able to reequip, or you're likely to suffer a death again, and again, and again.

I am sure a total redesign of the world and items would bring a fair bit of enjoyment back into the game for newbs and vets alike. It'd bring about new stuff to find etc etc. You'd have those who'd whinge and whine because they were no longer godlike, but its probably those sort you want to ward of anyway. Alas, it isnt a viable idea, so I guess in the words of L-A we'll just have to harden up.

When I first started this I used to get my arse handed to me at times. I remember killing a chaos leader demon shaman on my first cabaled character, a gnome invoker, I was absolutely over the moon. Generally, I got my arse completely handed to me by people though, which made the kill even more sweet.

Unfortunately this game isn't something you'll learn overnight. I've probably put 8000 hours into this game. Thats like playing straight every day 24hrs a day for over a year. It wouldn't be uncommon for me in the first few years playing to log 8 hours a day, and much longer on weekends. I don't even know how I managed this, now it gets to 11pm and I am completely ready for bed.

After those 8000+ hours, there are still numerous people who know more then me. I haven't played actively in around 5 years, things have changed, new things have been implemented and discovered. I dunno what to say, but I guess it'd be at least a year for a new player to catch up. This is ALOT of wasted time in life, time you'll never get back and probably wont be enjoying because you suck comparitively. I don't know what can bridge this gap and make it easier for newer players to get up to speed. The secretive nature of everything means it takes ALOT of time to learn what gear does what, etc. IMHO 1.0 cabals were easier to get into, there was less fuss involved. I had some attrociously rp'ed characters cabaled (ie, there was no plot behind the character at all really, I made it up as I went). Being cabaled in many ways helped me out greatly. You'd have cabal members showing you around, where to get this equipment etc etc etc.

Maybe make the equipment bridge less defined. Make it so you can get a suite 4/5 of a god suite with relative ease. I don't know. And now I am just waffling because its time for me to get some sleep.

[HouselessRogue]

All this is why we shouldn't be quite so strict with our information. Knowledge is power and I know you old fogeys think that since you learned the hard way everyone should, but that is archaic thinking. Again, I don't think we should be posting Gear walk-throughs but editing a post because of common item's effects is a little over the top. I think we need a section where Senior forum members can be a little more open. This would give the newer players a forum goal and also enforce forum etiquette. A forum ban would actually mean a great deal then.

Anyway... I still want to know who Sandbox thought I played. I think he believes I am/was somebody that I was not. If anyone knows... PM me?

[Pali]

If the world was completely redesigned/rearranged with a large deal of new areas' date=' the game would become quite a bit more balanced for newb vs vet. This game is largely knowledge based. xxx knows where to get xxx items, whilst yyy doesn't gives him a great advantage.[/quote']

As I said, something like this is only a temporary solution unless you're going to mix up the world every few months. The simple truth is that some people learn faster than others, some people have more time to play than others, and those people will simply become the new "vets" as they learn the new world better/faster than the other players.

The solution isn't to level the playing field (though you ARE right about the EQ issues, something that I understand is being worked on). The solution is to encourage people to see figuring out how the game works as a challenge, rather than as a brick wall that they keep slamming into. In my opinion, the EQ reworking should go a long way towards that... letting people be able to put up a fight in mithril or other common eq will help a huge amount.

[where pk]

I am curious as to what the eq rework will actually mean. Are the God suits going to be toned down or what does it actually mean?

[Pali]

So long as it is lessening the gap in strength between common eq/common rares and the very high end rares, I'm happy with it.

[tassinvegeta]

Goldbands post reminds me of Drayson's rp. The fact that this is rl and he truly believes he speaks truth is much more frightening than Drayson ever could be.

[MadCowDisease]

personally, i tihnk the problem would be solved if the adventurer class could go to 50. gives people a chance to learn at pinn without getting steamrolled.

[Pali]

personally' date=' i tihnk the problem would be solved if the adventurer class could go to 50. gives people a chance to learn at pinn without getting steamrolled.[/quote']

No, it'd give people a chance to RP at 50 without getting steamrolled, and maybe learn the locations of a few pieces of higher-end eq (and if they're really lucky the people in Winter with them will let them ID it before their groupmates pick it up). It doesn't give them a chance to learn how to play at 50 at all, because a huge part of playing this game is PKing and adventurers can't do that at all.

The two-tiered PK system proposed a while back, however, WOULD give people a chance to learn at 50. They'd still get steamrolled plenty, but the lack of full loots would give them some time to get their feet wet without drowning.

[MadCowDisease]

a huge part is pk. but then, you'd have to know where to get the gear required to pk effectively, would you not? and so being able to explore, discover item locations, etc etc would help. learning what an item is/does is fairly easy, its not hard at all to RP a curious person.

thus, being able to rank to 50 without being PKed would be very helpful for learning what the hell to do when you get there.

[Twinblades713]

As to the OP's thread title. My last words would be:

I AM THE WALRUS! GOO GOO GOO JOOB!

[MadCowDisease]

As to the OP's thread title. My last words would be:

I AM THE WALRUS! GOO GOO GOO JOOB!

L..

M..

F..

A..

...

.....

..................o

[Iusedtobesomebody]

a huge part is pk. but then, you'd have to know where to get the gear required to pk effectively, would you not? and so being able to explore, discover item locations, etc etc would help. learning what an item is/does is fairly easy, its not hard at all to RP a curious person.

thus, being able to rank to 50 without being PKed would be very helpful for learning what the hell to do when you get there.

Not to be considered an a$$, but in all seriousness...

Every single player since the we opened for beta testing has had to explore, ID, map, strategize, RP, mine gold, get resourses, etc. (and here's the beauty of it. wait for it) while being able to be PK'd. They also learned the art of fleeing (when and how to flee effectively), the art of area evasion (how to run blind, how to cut across multiple areas to deter a foe in following, how to double back using adjoining areas).

It's bogus to think you would learn anything but numbered data (item ID'd/locations) at 50 without the constant threat of the old ultra-violence.

But hey, what do I know. Apparently, I'm just the old guy set in his ways, not wanting to adjust to the newer, softer, cuddlier version of FL. There is always room to improve the game to make it more newbie friendly (and I'm all for that), but seriously, let's not dumb down the game to do so. Instead of bringing the game down to the newbies, let's raise the newbies up to the game. This means not being a jackass IG, walking obvious newbies through ranking areas/main paths, answering questions (and more importantly, giving info without being asked, most newbies are too shy to ask), not steamrolling newbs and full-looting, giving PK tips and strategies, etc.

The point is, silver-spooning will do nothing but hurt in the long run.

[Pali]

Could not have said it better, IUTBS.

EDIT: Madcow, this has been said many times in other places, but if you feel the need to learn the location of eq before putting effort into learning how to deal with pk, make a healer and never, ever fight - just keep all your spells up and run instantly after every attack. You may die here and there to a skilled ninja (or a few other situations that rarely occur - i.e. first attack is a blasphemy that lands), but nothing else should be capable of killing you. You can solo many of the eq areas fairly well as a healer as well, and you have identify, can make food/water, can give yourself all of the best defensive spells. Needless to say, do NOT attempt to join a cabal with this character. And do not care at all about what eq you have, just what you have learned about eq... you aren't trying to be a badass, so don't worry about whether you're in full Adeptus or if you're in mithril. A healer can run just fine in either.

This is the newbie route. You want an easy route that is heavily protected from PK and allows you to explore and learn, this is it. If you don't want to do it, that is your choice... but understand that it is a more difficult path.

[where pk]

I agree with Pali and IUTBS. The best way to learn where eq is by dying and getting full looted. If someone wants to learn the ins and outs of the game they need to powerrank to 50 join a cable and learn the way everyone else did. Roll another character train a bit more and die less. Then roll another character etc. etc.

[-Totenkopf-]

I agree with Pali and IUTBS. The best way to learn where eq is by dying and getting full looted. If someone wants to learn the ins and outs of the game they need to powerrank to 50 join a cable and learn the way everyone else did. Roll another character train a bit more and die less. Then roll another character etc. etc.

Power ranking to 50 and joining a cabal isn't exactly easy for a newbie.

Hell, ranking in general with the number of players around currently is a royal PITA I find. But hell, I am newb