My last words would be...

[Guest emp_newb]

Regardless' date=' learning to survive (not to PK, but to SURVIVE) is a FAR more important and crucial thing in this game than learning to equip is. You won't keep your eq until you learn it no matter how good your eq is.[/quote']

I have tried to stress this to so many people. Having an uber suit is sweet, but it is not the kick *** day pass. You WILL die, you WILL lose it. it WILL happen. You need to learn to survive in crap, and then you will have a far easier time at pinn.

[inscribed]

The way he acts' date=' and mannerisms. I get the feel he is an old forum personality known as Crucial.[/quote']

sandbox isn't crucial.

[J.Twendrist]

Healers are terrible for people who are completely, or slightly new. All they do is teach you how to gate to mobs for equ, and use your awesome defense spells all the time... too bad you won't have either if you roll up anything else. If you want IDs, go cleric. If you want to legitamatly know how to be prepared for anything go warrior (that way you learn equ, herbs, potions, ect).

[Pali]

I disagree. I think healers teach you the importance of spell maintenance (i.e. always have fly up or you get tripped to death), which is hugely important for any class (and not as many of those defensive spells are unique as you make it sound). Healers can solo their way through many gauntlets and eq areas, allowing newbs to familiarize themselves with those areas and the eq within.

[Dale]

No one would play an adv to 50, not even you, sit down and think about it. And you can learn how to gain eq at lvl 30, easily. In fact I used to be able to get a pretty decent set of eq at 30 that would easily get me to 50.

Stop looking for things to moan about, please.

[MadCowDisease]

of course i wouldnt play one to 50. ive said that. i wont even play them to 30.

i know that gear =/= survivability. but knowing where it is will still help. and it requires more work on the player's part that asking through PMs and getting spoonfed.

yes, you will die, and lose the eq. but the great part is knowing where to go to replace it.

as mentioned above, the healer class teaches you nothing but how to play a healer. you can apply some things to casters in general. but getting used to the defensive capabilities of a healer, then rolling something without them, will result in a "wtf why am i dead?" reaction.

[MadCowDisease]

Healers are terrible for people who are completely' date=' or slightly new. All they do is teach you how to gate to mobs for equ, and use your awesome defense spells all the time... too bad you won't have either if you roll up anything else. If you want IDs, go cleric. If you want to legitamatly know how to be prepared for anything go warrior (that way you learn equ, herbs, potions, ect).[/quote']

agreed. i learned so much as a warrior. with xhan i learned what not to do. with my warrior, i have learned how to do pretty much everything. have yet to try to pk with him, but i'll save that for later.

[Pali]

as mentioned above' date=' the healer class teaches you nothing but how to play a healer. you can apply some things to casters in general. but getting used to the defensive capabilities of a healer, then rolling something without them, will result in a "wtf why am i dead?" reaction.[/quote']

As I said, my first pinn was a healer. My next two pinns each had over a hundred kills to their names. Clearly, I learned something important about PK with him (primarily paranoia, where an adventurer would breed complacency in this area - a bad habit for this game). Why wouldn't others?

Even if we accept your logic that playing a healer teaches you nothing but to play a healer, the same applies to playing an adventurer teaching you nothing but playing an adventurer... and healers are more similar to every other class than adventurers are solely by the fact that they can be PK'd, so it is LESS of a learning curve to go from healer to another class than it is adventurer to another class even by your own reckoning.

[J.Twendrist]

All I know is, I had a healer for a long while, then I played something else, then a healer again, both of those lasting a long time (Haroen and Khranin), after which I was lazy as all hell. I kept wishing I had gate, and it was a huge inconvience to learn to walk anywhere. I will agree on spell upkeep, and Id's, but you can get that from a cleric without the gate. That's my biggest beef about healers for new players is it's harder to learn areas and consumables.

[Dale]

Here is the best idea you can get, Evil human cleric. Nothing is going to teach you how to pk, explore the game, id items, rp, train, or rank quick than that. That was my first pinn, first caballed char. I had well over 200 pks between lvls 30-50 I was pking regular. I learned how to chase and survive. And now I can adequetly play any class in the game.

[MadCowDisease]

As I said, my first pinn was a healer. My next two pinns each had over a hundred kills to their names. Clearly, I learned something important about PK with him (primarily paranoia, where an adventurer would breed complacency in this area - a bad habit for this game). Why wouldn't others?

Even if we accept your logic that playing a healer teaches you nothing but to play a healer, the same applies to playing an adventurer teaching you nothing but playing an adventurer... and healers are more similar to every other class than adventurers are solely by the fact that they can be PK'd, so it is LESS of a learning curve to go from healer to another class than it is adventurer to another class even by your own reckoning.

wrong. advs dabble a bit into everything. meaning. playing one should teach you a little of everything. thats what they're meant to do.

also.. the complacency issue. if you play this game, and get complacent, you're stupid. not to be harsh, but its true. the description of this game is "enforced RP with a player killing element"

if you read "player killing element" and go "hmm.. yeah i wont die, its ok" you should disconnect your computer. if the person is finding the game out through a friend that plays, and the friend doesnt tell them.. well then it wont matter, healer or not, if they get PKed a bunch.

so really.. that just comes down to common sense. ya have it or you dont, and no class teaches common sense.

[MadCowDisease]

i still say warrior. they're basic. they are durable. they arent gimp at pinn.

[Iusedtobesomebody]

You're still yammering on about this, MCD? Wow.

I applaud your tenacity, even if I am amazed at your ability to ignore post after post by long-time players who know what they speak of.

To each his own, I guess.

[MadCowDisease]

long term players should never speak for new people =)

[Iusedtobesomebody]

Unbelievable.

::roll::

[MadCowDisease]

=P i like arguing. its fun.

but my point to that is.. you've been playin a while. being new isnt as fresh on your mind as somebody who is, well, new.

[Aulian]

Here is the best idea you can get' date=' Evil human cleric. Nothing is going to teach you how to pk, explore the game, id items, rp, train, or rank quick than that. That was my first pinn, first caballed char. I had well over 200 pks between lvls 30-50 I was pking regular. I learned how to chase and survive. [b']And now I can adequetly play any class in the game.

Alright, Alright, Dont push it.

[Tantangel]

Cleric is by far, hands down the easiest to play first, next to Healer anyways. Healers have more PK restrictions. Warriors will not be a good first character because how do they know people are invisible and where to buy pills? Always go Cleric/Healer for a first unless you're like me and didn't know that and went Monk and got tooled over hard because the rolling system was like ARs and a 14, 13, 17, 12 and 16 were all perfectly good stats for what I was. :-P

[Reccum]

In order for a debate or argument to take place, all parties have to hear and understand what the others are talking about.

MCD many of your posts on this thread are contradictory and moreover you just often repeat what other people are saying in your own words...

This is not a debate it is just a bunch of opinions being repeated over and over.

Almost everyone agrees that YES something should be done to make the curve a little easier for noobs. But everyone in their right mind also realizes that a lvl 50 adventurer will not accomplish this. I implore you to PLEASE put your thinking cap back on and come up with some fresh ideas to help make life easier for noobs.

You even said yourself that you would not play an adv. to 50...Need I say more?

[Aulian]

Here is the best idea you can get' date=' Evil human cleric. Nothing is going to teach you how to pk, explore the game, id items, rp, train, or rank quick than that. That was my first pinn, first caballed char. I had well over 200 pks between lvls 30-50 I was pking regular. I learned how to chase and survive. [b']And now I can adequetly play any class in the game.

Alright, Alright, Dont push it.

EDIT = RE MCD: Dude its just advice, you dont have to take it. However once these ideas are put out there and explained dont complain later that you were not given such sound advice.

On another note it may pay to remember some of us have probably forgotten mor then alot of people know. Comes with being here a wee while I guess.

[Pali]

advs dabble a bit into everything EXCEPT PK

Fixed that for you.

[MadCowDisease]

In order for a debate or argument to take place, all parties have to hear and understand what the others are talking about.

MCD many of your posts on this thread are contradictory and moreover you just often repeat what other people are saying in your own words...

This is not a debate it is just a bunch of opinions being repeated over and over.

Almost everyone agrees that YES something should be done to make the curve a little easier for noobs. But everyone in their right mind also realizes that a lvl 50 adventurer will not accomplish this. I implore you to PLEASE put your thinking cap back on and come up with some fresh ideas to help make life easier for noobs.

You even said yourself that you would not play an adv. to 50...Need I say more?

that is cause i dont even play advs. period.

[MadCowDisease]

Cleric is by far' date=' hands down the easiest to play first, next to Healer anyways. Healers have more PK restrictions. Warriors will not be a good first character because how do they know people are invisible and where to buy pills? Always go Cleric/Healer for a first unless you're like me and didn't know that and went Monk and got tooled over hard because the rolling system was like ARs and a 14, 13, 17, 12 and 16 were all perfectly good stats for what I was. :-P[/quote']

i'd like to note that i've learned how to see invis with pots/herbs, how to fly, all of that. as a war. xhan doesnt count, as i learned nothing but how to die. a lot. neither does liandra, she hasnt even made rank 10. just play her for a fun rp. and my war is almost pinn. have died from one player, 2 mobdeaths.

so whats hard about starting as a warrior. again?

and its not like i played any muds before this, except for one, and that was 6 years ago and i never made it past level 15 there. so the only thing i remembered is how to move and attack mobs. if that gives me some kinda heads up on people.. then class choice is hardly the problem.

but whatever. you want to reccomend a healer, go ahead, i'll reccomend a warrior.

[Aulian]

I'd say warrior too.

You'll probably get a little thrashed at 50 with your first pinn, but with a warrior you will learn MORE then any other class possible I would say.

EDIT: besides with id'ing eq that is, but brambus can be your friend here.

[Guest emp_newb]

I say a Melee char as well. Based solely on the fact that it IS the hardest tio learn, you WILL get thrashedd, you WILL get your **** pushed in. And if you play through to condeath, you will get some big props, and learn an INSANE amount.