Locked Blademaster Suggestions

Having played four blademasters to pinn, and having fought many more than that, I have a number of suggestions as to what could be done with the blademaster class. Note: Not all of these suggestions are tone downs. Some of them would actually be beneficial to certain races.

Stances

Shadowdancer: This stance is fantastic, in my opinion. It's great for halflings (one of the three stances they should EVER use in combat), and makes for a great communer/caster killer. However, I suggest it does need some toning. I have not played a halfer blm since the changes, so I'm not sure if this has already been done. But I think the strength cap should be 23. This allows for an increase in strength, without adding an insane amount. As it is, a halfling in shadowdancer AUTOMATICALLY gets +12ish hitroll and +10ish damroll. That is, in my opinion, absurd.

Doomsinger: This stance is also good, in part because most people don't know what it does, and in part because of what it does. However, there are some problems with it. Even mastered, you still hit mostly grazes, with a high-damage attack every round or so, two or three times if you're REALLY lucky. A blademaster, on average, gets five attacks per round with a two-handed weapon. That means that they're doing only doing about sixty damage per round (assuming they hit one MUTILATE and four grazes). I think, with the progression of the stance, the probability to hit low damage should go down greatly. That would also solve the problem I'm going to mention later.

Deathweaver: Perfect. The equivalent of drunken stance, I really don't think it needs anything.

Ironarm: Eh. I don't know if it was always like it is now, or if it got toned up with the changes. However, I do know that I don't like it now. I don't like any stance that can, with no penalty to the blademaster, disarm noremove weapons AND knock them to the ground (so they can be picked up by your opponent). Easy fix? Make it so ironarm removes predict. The ironarm skill lags when it disarms, and does damage, so this shouldn't be hard to code in for JUST ironarm. That way, if you get disarmed, you have one rounded (after recovering from the lag) to pick up your weapon, and enter the command that the blademaster would have been predicting. However, you cannot say, bash, until after the blademaster has gotten to backpin/pinwheel, so they lose no potency. And the disarm thing should be fixed so that noremove weapons go to the inventory.

Kairishi: I have not used it since the changes, and I never see it used, so I really can't comment.

Bladestorm: I don't know what happened here. Did the haste effect get toned down? This is an extremely vulnerable stance for a blademaster to be in (lowers AC, and no lag protection), and I think that maybe it should be like monkey stance. Hits do less damage, but there are more of them and they hit more often. Maybe have it subtract 5-10ish damroll, but +5-10ish hitroll.

Skills

Scrolls: I think blademasters should get the scrolls skill. Just my honest opinion.

Counter/Twin Counter/Vigil: As it stands now, most classes have no way to open combat against a flying blademaster that won't result in them getting hit by a counter/twin counter. That means approximately 75-100 damage, for free, and afterward? The blademaster can just flee and go back to sleep or meditate, causing the counter to kick in again. My suggestions? Make vigil an activatable skill, usable only with two weapons. It should last for, say, one hour to start, and go up with proficiency. Then it should have a cooldown timer for twice its duration. Also, tone down the twin counter damage. Right now, twin counter actually does MORE damage than counter, half the time. And counter damage, in this instance, should rely on vigil's proficiency, not counter's proficiency. I've been hit for anything from LACERATES through DEMOLISHES through sanc AND protection by counter. Granted, the demos were with a vuln weapon, but that's still a bit much for something that has no penalty whatsoever for the blademaster.

Predict: I really have no suggestions for this skill, except for a couple of modifications of what knocks you out of it. I think the list needs to be expanded to include disarm. Also, as far as predicting is concerned, I think blademasters should be able to predict the "ADT" Syndicate skill, onslaught, disarm, weapon cleave, and haymaker (if it can't be predicted already).

Spellkiller: I really think this should be able to apply to communers, too. As it is right now, communers are the best in the game at attrition. They can easily outlast a blademaster's mana. And that's all a shaman/paladin has to do to win.

Snakespeed: The damage on this should be toned down. It should counter the spell, yes, but it should not be hitting a MUTILATE/LACERATE through sanctuary. When combined with counter damage, it leaves a mage opponent nothing but area spells to attack the blademaster with, and that's really just not fair.

Doublesheath: FFS, make the proficiency go up. You're killing my mastery list.

Onslaught: Backpin/Pinwheel - I think the Blademaster should only be able to pinwheel if they're dual wielding, much like a thief can only dual backstab/dual circle stab with two weapons. However, in that case, I think that the backpin damage needs to be toned up slightly, and the pinwheel damage toned down slightly, so they're even. Without sanctuary, they do fairly even damage. With it, backpin hits for a maim/decimate, and pinwheel hits for a MASSACRE/MANGLE. Make it so they meet in the middle, and both do LACERATES, so it's still a worthwhile skill.

Critical Strikes

Wrist: Give this a chance to make the opponent drop their weapon. This is an extremely underused critical strike, as is.

Spleen: Make the timer on the maledictive last for a shorter period of time. Two hours tops, I think.

Temple: Make the timer on this last longer. As it stands now, I believe it lasts one hour with a mastered critical strike. That means you have to intuitively know when your opponent is going to flee (which could be anytime between half and a quarter health), and use it. And even then, they can still catch a lucky tick, and escape.

Diaphragm: Lower the effect of this, VASTLY. This should be like a trip that goes through flight, in my mind. Sure, Communers/Mages can block it, but melees shouldn't get shafted on that account.

Solar Plexus: Increase the effect of this. A Blademaster SHOULD own their mastery race nine-tenths of the time, and this is scarcely better than the diaphragm strike, which makes no sense.

Races

Halfling, Slith, Feral, Elf, and Drow are all great. Dwarves and Duergars will be fine if the above Doomsinger change is made. As it stands now, Dwarves and Duergars do not have a reliable, good two-handed stance that they can make use of, limiting their effectiveness against melees. Gnomes... well, who would play a gnome blademaster? And finally, we come to Undead. Undead are the primary reason that I think spellkiller should also affect prayers. As it stands right now, undead just don't stand a chance against healers/clerics/paladins.

I like the sound of what you've suggested a lot, a LOT. My only qualm is with being able to predict haymaker. Zerks have it hard enough against Blademasters as it is, and if the Blademaster has a primary burnproof, this is the one skill that a Zerk can actually use in battle (and needs to use, against a Blademaster), unless you think using Headbutt against a Blademaster is effective.

On the flipside though, a blademaster DOES have to use two weapons to do it, thus reducing their defence against the Zerk. But still, Zerk has a hard time against a dual-wielder blademaster in good EQ as it is without not being able to haymaker (deathweaver, predict haymaker, burnproof primary, effectively cancelled the three main commands that you'd use).

I might be way off though, as the other changes you've come up with could well balance that out. I really like the ideas you've come up with.

Dey

Kairishi is prolly my favourite stance. Does Iron Arm really disarm noremove weapons? That surprises the hell out of me, seems way overpowered. I think shadowdancer is fine, but Doomsinger could definately use a tone-up to make it a viable stance. I dont think blademasters should get scrolls. They are buff enough as it is and don't need all those nice little things scrolls can do. I always thought spell kill did affect communers, I think it should, and vigil/counters should prolly be toned slightly. I also agree with the pinwheel thing requiring two weapons. Also sucks that doublesheath won't go up.

I'd be disappointed if twin counter/vigil was toned down. For me, it played a very key part in my tactics, and it takes an insane amount of time to master it. To be strictily honest, I kind of like blademasters the way they are now.

I like the sound of what you've suggested a lot, a LOT. My only qualm is with being able to predict haymaker. Zerks have it hard enough against Blademasters as it is, and if the Blademaster has a primary burnproof, this is the one skill that a Zerk can actually use in battle (and needs to use, against a Blademaster), unless you think using Headbutt against a Blademaster is effective.

On the flipside though, a blademaster DOES have to use two weapons to do it, thus reducing their defence against the Zerk. But still, Zerk has a hard time against a dual-wielder blademaster in good EQ as it is without not being able to haymaker (deathweaver, predict haymaker, burnproof primary, effectively cancelled the three main commands that you'd use).

I might be way off though, as the other changes you've come up with could well balance that out. I really like the ideas you've come up with.

Dey

A blademaster has to be wielding two weapons to predict. They have to be in deathweaver to balance. Using predict for haymaker and being in deathweaver, the blademaster will hardly do any damage, and won't have any commands to enter other than onslaught. That leaves a berserker open to weapon cleave (if the weapon isn't burnproof), headbutt (meaning the blademaster can't put up stances/other spells that fall), roar (lowering the blademasters strength and making them do even LESS damage) and bodyslam (doing damage while causing the blademaster to lose some of their precious mana).

I'd be disappointed if twin counter/vigil was toned down. For me' date=' it played a very key part in my tactics, and it takes an insane amount of time to master it. To be strictily honest, I kind of like blademasters the way they are now.[/quote']

First of all, twin counter takes almost no time to master. And I am not suggesting a tone down for vigil, merely more careful planning, vis a vis, a timer.

there are toons of ways to go around counter and twin counter. Not many people do it because they might not think of it or want to spend the time to do it. (Yes even melees can do it)

I forgot to add, Vigil does not need a tone down nor snakespeed since mastering that takes a LONG time and 'hard' to do.

I was talking vigil taking a long time to master, not twin counter. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

Everyone has access to area damage spells. HINTHINT.

I wonder if the simple wake command would work on a meditating enemy. That would be funny.

Everyone has access to area damage spells. HINTHINT.

I wonder if the simple wake command would work on a meditating enemy. That would be funny.

It would, but you can still be countered/twin countered when your opponent is awake.

And you're going to not tone something because it takes a long time to master? Does anyone else see the whole in that logic?

We have a thread on how blademaster have access to too many mals and you're suggesting that we tone UP some of their abilities? I don't think that's a good idea....

Espeically in the predict haymaker/disarm. What did Behrens say about their stances - something like they can be dispelled and haymakered. Did you ever think that its MEANT to be hard for a blm vs zerk (like it is for a monk). Its a vulnerability of the class.

If you don't want to be disarmed get a weapon that can't be disarmed. Duh. Don't ask for it to be made easier for you.

They get 5 attacks with 2h weapons - FIVE. No other melee class gets this and I always wondered why they didn't get the usual three like anyone else. Right there I thought they had too much - let alone what other things they can do. I'd hae KILLED to get five attacks a round with a 2h weapon (normal) with my last zerk....

You should never be able to predict any cabal skills. Period.

They are a melee class - not a hybrid, so I see no reason they should get scrolls over warriors/zerks who are also mele classes. Other than so players who want to play blms have an easier life, but I don't think that is a valid reason....

Cheers,

L-A

First of all, there are cabal skills that can be predicted, cabal spells that can be spellkilled, and cabal skills that can be nullified via the use of stances.

Second of all, dispel can be spellkilled.

My point about ironarm was that it disarms weapons that are normally noremove.

And I mentioned scrolls just because it's a personal opinion. It's not a change that needs to be made to make the class viable.

So don't just come here with your know-it-all attitude, and try to pull a Celerity, because I ain't buying it, bucko.

PS - I <3 you L-A. But you're an @sshat sometimes.

i'm still waiting on my warrior hellstream dang it

Look. Most of what I suggested are tone downs. I have played more blademasters, with more longevity than just about anyone here except EyeSeeU (aka Chrinchton). I have seen a lot of what they can do, and it's by far my favorite class. Hell, I have one at fifty right now (inactive, but he's there). So I'm not suggesting a bunch of tone downs to make my own life easier. These are all just ideas, individually, that I think would make the class better as a whole in terms of global balance.

Having played four blademasters to pinn, and having fought many more than that, I have a number of suggestions as to what could be done with the blademaster class. Note: Not all of these suggestions are tone downs. Some of them would actually be beneficial to certain races.

Stances

Shadowdancer: This stance is fantastic, in my opinion. It's great for halflings (one of the three stances they should EVER use in combat), and makes for a great communer/caster killer. However, I suggest it does need some toning. I have not played a halfer blm since the changes, so I'm not sure if this has already been done. But I think the strength cap should be 23. This allows for an increase in strength, without adding an insane amount. As it is, a halfling in shadowdancer AUTOMATICALLY gets +12ish hitroll and +10ish damroll. That is, in my opinion, absurd.

Agreed. The only blademasters I've played have been halflings, and it always felt just crazy tossing four dismembers a round in the early 30s without being decked, or 5 mangles a round at 50 without being decked, while still having 25 dex. Capping it at 23 would keep it powerful and incredibly useful, but not so ridiculous.

Doomsinger: This stance is also good, in part because most people don't know what it does, and in part because of what it does. However, there are some problems with it. Even mastered, you still hit mostly grazes, with a high-damage attack every round or so, two or three times if you're REALLY lucky. A blademaster, on average, gets five attacks per round with a two-handed weapon. That means that they're doing only doing about sixty damage per round (assuming they hit one MUTILATE and four grazes). I think, with the progression of the stance, the probability to hit low damage should go down greatly. That would also solve the problem I'm going to mention later.

Also agreed. A bit of a boost to it would make it far more worthwhile to sink the time into. I almost never used it, preferring shadowdancer in any situation similar.

Deathweaver: Perfect. The equivalent of drunken stance, I really don't think it needs anything.

Also agreed.

Ironarm: Eh. I don't know if it was always like it is now, or if it got toned up with the changes. However, I do know that I don't like it now. I don't like any stance that can, with no penalty to the blademaster, disarm noremove weapons AND knock them to the ground (so they can be picked up by your opponent). Easy fix? Make it so ironarm removes predict. The ironarm skill lags when it disarms, and does damage, so this shouldn't be hard to code in for JUST ironarm. That way, if you get disarmed, you have one rounded (after recovering from the lag) to pick up your weapon, and enter the command that the blademaster would have been predicting. However, you cannot say, bash, until after the blademaster has gotten to backpin/pinwheel, so they lose no potency. And the disarm thing should be fixed so that noremove weapons go to the inventory.

I didn't use ironarm much, but this sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Kairishi: I have not used it since the changes, and I never see it used, so I really can't comment.[/quote

Ditto.

Bladestorm: I don't know what happened here. Did the haste effect get toned down? This is an extremely vulnerable stance for a blademaster to be in (lowers AC, and no lag protection), and I think that maybe it should be like monkey stance. Hits do less damage, but there are more of them and they hit more often. Maybe have it subtract 5-10ish damroll, but +5-10ish hitroll.

Haven't seen it recently, but I didn't like it originally myself either... I always thought making it more like monkey stance would be nice. Still, my opinion here shouldn't matter much.

Skills

Scrolls: I think blademasters should get the scrolls skill. Just my honest opinion.[/quote[

I'm more for keeping them without scrolls. I think giving them the ability to use long-term flight, missile shield and protection at 50 with any stance would be way too strong.

Counter/Twin Counter/Vigil: As it stands now, most classes have no way to open combat against a flying blademaster that won't result in them getting hit by a counter/twin counter. That means approximately 75-100 damage, for free, and afterward? The blademaster can just flee and go back to sleep or meditate, causing the counter to kick in again. My suggestions? Make vigil an activatable skill, usable only with two weapons. It should last for, say, one hour to start, and go up with proficiency. Then it should have a cooldown timer for twice its duration. Also, tone down the twin counter damage. Right now, twin counter actually does MORE damage than counter, half the time. And counter damage, in this instance, should rely on vigil's proficiency, not counter's proficiency. I've been hit for anything from LACERATES through DEMOLISHES through sanc AND protection by counter. Granted, the demos were with a vuln weapon, but that's still a bit much for something that has no penalty whatsoever for the blademaster.

I REALLY like this. Blademaster defenses are meant to be strong, but they feel a bit TOO strong. Attacking one just hurts too much to make pursuing one in a close fight (for many classes - some can definitely get around this with area spells) feasible.

Predict: I really have no suggestions for this skill, except for a couple of modifications of what knocks you out of it. I think the list needs to be expanded to include disarm. Also, as far as predicting is concerned, I think blademasters should be able to predict the "ADT" Syndicate skill, onslaught, disarm, weapon cleave, and haymaker (if it can't be predicted already).

I don't really agree with any of those other than onslaught... that Syndi skill is a pretty important one, and being able to predict the other skills just feels too strong.

Spellkiller: I really think this should be able to apply to communers, too. As it is right now, communers are the best in the game at attrition. They can easily outlast a blademaster's mana. And that's all a shaman/paladin has to do to win.

I disagree, because communers don't cast spells, they use prayers. Divine intervention, not using magic. Balance-wise I also feel that communers are rather limited in offensive spells, and this would really weaken the ability of a cleric or paladin to take one down.

Snakespeed: The damage on this should be toned down. It should counter the spell, yes, but it should not be hitting a MUTILATE/LACERATE through sanctuary. When combined with counter damage, it leaves a mage opponent nothing but area spells to attack the blademaster with, and that's really just not fair.

Agreed on this one.

Doublesheath: FFS, make the proficiency go up. You're killing my mastery list.

smirk

Onslaught: Backpin/Pinwheel - I think the Blademaster should only be able to pinwheel if they're dual wielding, much like a thief can only dual backstab/dual circle stab with two weapons. However, in that case, I think that the backpin damage needs to be toned up slightly, and the pinwheel damage toned down slightly, so they're even. Without sanctuary, they do fairly even damage. With it, backpin hits for a maim/decimate, and pinwheel hits for a MASSACRE/MANGLE. Make it so they meet in the middle, and both do LACERATES, so it's still a worthwhile skill.

Don't like this. I like it being pinwheel that hits the hardest, as it's the last and hardest to have happen. Plus, read the helpfile for pinwheel; it's stabbing your blade into someone's back and twisting. Easily done with a single weapon. ^_~

Critical Strikes

Wrist: Give this a chance to make the opponent drop their weapon. This is an extremely underused critical strike, as is.

Spleen: Make the timer on the maledictive last for a shorter period of time. Two hours tops, I think.

Temple: Make the timer on this last longer. As it stands now, I believe it lasts one hour with a mastered critical strike. That means you have to intuitively know when your opponent is going to flee (which could be anytime between half and a quarter health), and use it. And even then, they can still catch a lucky tick, and escape.

Diaphragm: Lower the effect of this, VASTLY. This should be like a trip that goes through flight, in my mind. Sure, Communers/Mages can block it, but melees shouldn't get shafted on that account.

Solar Plexus: Increase the effect of this. A Blademaster SHOULD own their mastery race nine-tenths of the time, and this is scarcely better than the diaphragm strike, which makes no sense.

Agreed on all of these.

Races

Halfling, Slith, Feral, Elf, and Drow are all great. Dwarves and Duergars will be fine if the above Doomsinger change is made. As it stands now, Dwarves and Duergars do not have a reliable, good two-handed stance that they can make use of, limiting their effectiveness against melees. Gnomes... well, who would play a gnome blademaster? And finally, we come to Undead. Undead are the primary reason that I think spellkiller should also affect prayers. As it stands right now, undead just don't stand a chance against healers/clerics/paladins.

Undead blademasters have incredible strengths to use against anybody, whether they can pray at them or not.

They get 5 attacks with 2h weapons - FIVE. No other melee class gets this and I always wondered why they didn't get the usual three like anyone else.

Warrior with a staff = 8.

Though, I'd take the 5 with a polearm any day.

And about scrolls, no way, no no, not going to happen. Then you could just aswell give them to warriors.

Blademasters do not always get five. It's more often between two and four. Notice: They do not get the second attack skill. Therefore a warrior has the possibility for second, third, and fourth attack to kick in. Blademaster has two base attacks, plus the chance for avatar of steel to kick in.

Warrior with staff=6, btw.

Blademasters get three and four attacks long before they get avatar of steel, Evan. You know that.

I think someone is forgetting two very important skills that do stuff on their own and add an attack.

Warrior with staff=6' date=' btw.[/quote']

It is? I'm pretty sure it was 8 for warrior and 6 for ranger.