Cabal Wars: To Kill.. Or Not To Kill.. That is the Question..

[Reccum]

reccum.. give it a rest already

sorry forum police, I didn't know my opinion meter had expired.

[tassinvegeta]

It would also make things easier attainable, less rewarding, less important.

[Chayesh]

If ganging isn't against the rules why do people get zapped for doing it?

I'm sorry, you're incorrect.

Ganging is only prohibited in specific situations for specific characters. Those are:

1. Quest races*

2. Quest classes*

3. Members of a cabal who's cabal IMM has ordered them not to do it.

*Though not prohibited for quest wannabes, it's probably not a good idea to do so as you will not impress us when it comes time to consider your application.

Overall, ganging is not prohibited by rule. Is that a clear enough statement?

If you have specific concerns or questions you would like addressed, feel free to use the prayer forum.

[Guest emp_newb]

I never had a problem with tandeming for valid reasons, anymore though I am seeing people who use the fact that they are in PK range as a valid reason. Ganging, and Tandeming have been going on for years, it is NOT going to go away folks.

To reply to an earlier submission about this scenario: Char A attacks Char B, Char A, or B, leaves the fight for a brief period of time. Char A then attacks Char C. So char B is now accused of ganging.

Character A started two fights himself, if he gets beat on by those two characters, tough ****. I posted this EXACT scenario, and Eshaine instructed me that I have every right to pursue the original fight, if he chose to initiate another fight between then and now, well that is completely his fault. You will not get penalized for pursueing the original aggressor.

Hainasf did that to Maerothir when I was a paladin. That is why I posted my original question.

[Deykari]

EDIT: I'll leave the post below there, BUT it seems I missed out like 2 pages of this thread, and having read them, I now realise your point MCD and will concede, making the following text, not really required.

Okay, I was a little drunk with my last post so I'll reply again.

NO. if i see somebody that you want to attack, and they are in a fight. attack them. you have your reasons to attack them right? to make sure they die. so why leave it to somebody else? it makes no sense. this idea of "its lame to attack people in midfight is stupid. not doing it because its lame is OOC. isnt this game supposed to enforce RP? the way i see it, if you ignore part of your RP for the sake of another player, you should be punished. no ifs ands or buts. period.

Sacrificing 'roleplay' for the sake of other people's feelings is bad and should be punished?

I'm going to roll a purity follower. I'm going to band with every other purity follower (and just the general evil-haters of the land) in a huge group, and go on a rampage, totally 1-round obliterating any and every evil person we come across. We will full loot, sacrifice, and then as soon as we hear word that they've been restored by their God, we will hunt them down and repeat, forever. We will see a group of three low-level evils who are evidently new and ask us for help, but we will stay in character, and lead these guys to a place full of agro-mobs and watch them get slain, then refuse to tell them where they died so that we can wait at their temples and sacrifice their gear before heading off to the emerald forest and having all of our healers cast protective and curing spells on the nymphs, effectively preventing the evils there from killing good-align mobs.

Imagine if you were one of the evils in question. Imagine how **** it would be 'playing' FL, being unable to do anything because of all of those pure roleplayers coming after you.

I'm not saying jumping in battles, ganging, multi-killing or anything is wrong as it completely has its place in certain (many) situations. I have multi-killed and I have jumped in battles where I feel the behaviour was warranted. What I'm saying is, that claiming that you'll gang, multikill and the like because it's in your characters roleplay and that to NOT do that should be punishable as a breach of roleplay, whilst being 'pure' as a roleplayer, is going to be extremely frustrating for a lot of people. It is entirely possible to be in-character for ANY type of roleplay and yet show a bit of fairness in your play. FL is NOT roleplay enforced OR encouraged to this sort of extreme degree, and the proof is in the mechanics in place to maintain levels of fairness (for example, high-level people not being able to attack low-level people).

FL is ultimately, a game and unless it plans on accommodating a very small playerbase of "pure roleplayers" (imagine that being said out aloud with 'air quotes') who can regularly deal with the very extreme hardcore behaviour, this sort of "pure roleplay" (see above) has to give way to some degree for the sake of playability. Death can be a big deal in FL as a characters have a lot of time invested in them. I'm not saying that as if this is actually the case with our pbase, as to be fair our playerbase seems pretty fair for the most part IMO, just making a general statement.

If you disagree, then I commend you for your hardcore nature, but guarantee the view won't last once it comes back to bite you in the *** as it inevitably always does when people start to notice trends of unfavourable behaviour from characters.

Ultimately, the issue doesn't really matter to me, as 99% of my time here I've taken death with a pinch of salt, regardless of the circumstances, so being ganged-looted doesn't really get to me that much. My main concern is that by adopting the 'hardcore' attitude we are turning away more people. It is still possible for FL to retain it's hardcore nature without it being just a massive fest of multi-kill ganging.

Dey

[HouselessRogue]

I'm sorry, you're incorrect.

Ganging is only prohibited in specific situations for specific characters. Those are:

1. Quest races*

2. Quest classes*

3. Members of a cabal who's cabal IMM has ordered them not to do it.

*Though not prohibited for quest wannabes, it's probably not a good idea to do so as you will not impress us when it comes time to consider your application.

Overall, ganging is not prohibited by rule. Is that a clear enough statement?

If you have specific concerns or questions you would like addressed, feel free to use the prayer forum.

That changes my perspective a bit. In a sense I can see why a few would gang up to battle the big buff vampire. It makes sense. You know, pitch forks and torches and all that. I always thought it was just plan illegal. Thanks for the input you big snugly teddy bear.

In cabal war, multiple fights are going to happen. It's actually pretty fun.

[Guest emp_newb]

RE: MCD

Your waving the banner of sticking to RP like a bear on salmon, yet aren't you one of the people who got an outcast minotaur for not properly RPing your alignment?

[MadCowDisease]

RE: MCD

Your waving the banner of sticking to RP like a bear on salmon, yet aren't you one of the people who got an outcast minotaur for not properly RPing your alignment?

havent i already said that i app'd (not gonna say its why i was outcast. i will say i wanted to be though) to be evil? i app'd to be an outcast. i app'd to be evil.

it wasnt a punishment for me, because i was trying to be outcast.

not that i would ever advise anyone to do that. in fact i would say do the opposite.

[f0xx]

You need to learn to ignore our forum asshat from time to time MCD

[MadCowDisease]

i need to learn to ignore this thread too. its just the same things being recycled over and over.

[Dale]

i need to learn to ignore this thread too. its just the same things being recycled over and over.

Man, I don't know why. But I really really really don't like you.

And FYI you tend to repeat yourself and recycle many things in many posts.

[Aulian]

I think I know why Dale.

MCD has been here a short time and is very opinionated. Some of the things he says can irritate the vets.

Not having a go on MCD just letting you know why Dale is such an angry man.

But for example, the neutral Qclass thread. That annoyed me a little, because you jumped on the band wagon of over poweredness when you've played how many classes to 50? On that note, played how many QCLASSES to 50?

We need a community that helps cultivate ideas with constructive critisim. Not one where people jump onto a band wagon without using their heads and looking at things as a whole instead of one or two particular skills. You had some good ideas in your post, but also a lot of what you posted was inaccurate to a degree and unhelpful to Reccums idea but that was all down to inexperience..

I'd like to say thank you though, cause you are a newb who has really taken to the community and throwing out ideas is very very important from someone like you, becuase as vets we all know how everything works and forget the struggles at times that someone such as yourself can face.

Infact I think you're the best newb we've had since Dey (well dey is still newb, but we'll let him off for being here a while.)

[MadCowDisease]

yeh. i know im a newb. and i know i get repetetive at times (a lot)

i said this is just recycling because lets face it. its apparant that everyone that has stated an opinion here has pretty much dug their trenches.

ima apologize if i came across as if i were insulting others at any time in this thread. not my intention at all.

[Dale]

yeh. i know im a newb. and i know i get repetetive at times (a lot)

i said this is just recycling because lets face it. its apparant that everyone that has stated an opinion here has pretty much dug their trenches.

ima apologize if i came across as if i were insulting others at any time in this thread. not my intention at all.

Yes, this is true alot of ideas get thrown around alot. And often rinsed and reused but then, this is a place to voice opinions, such as my hate for you. But don't worry it's not as bad I hate others such as Balinor or Mali.

[Old_Bastard]

The entire concept of this is rediculous. SO are most of the pinnacle characters in cabals now? Do cabals not wage wars on single characters who have dishonored them?

[BigPapa]

Its Ridiculous.

[Mali]

You don't hate me, Dale. What gives?

[khaede]

RE: MCD

Your waving the banner of sticking to RP like a bear on salmon, yet aren't you one of the people who got an outcast minotaur for not properly RPing your alignment?

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, myself included. I'll just say for all the whining I've heard lately about ganging and cabal warfare, I personally witnessed an unnamed cabal member ganging (yes, by the technical definition) an uncabaled player (which they had not fought before) that was fighting another uncabaled player. The reasoning for this was to protect the other uncabaled player so they could continue to help them in a cabal war...which is completely in contradiction of the complaint that non cabaled players interfere in cabal warfare.

Now, I am not specifically calling out this players actions, but rather saying that, under duress and threat of death, everyone sees their true commitment to rp/integrity/rules. So don't bitch when other people, under threat of death or duress, show weakness in this area.

I guess this brings to mind the question...if vets have any more integrity, or just are put under duress less I have certainly been guilty of sliding integrity when looking down the barrel of a shotgun, although I like to think I mitigate it with a healthy dose of not caring about dying.

[Guest emp_newb]

I hate when people read half my posts.

I hate it when uncabaled characters attack cabaled chars who are already in warfare.

I am in Savant, Darzkor was in hourglass. I did not like him attacking the only Knight who was on because I was involved in warfare already. He effectively took my Cabal duties from me. Now when I attacked your character you had engaged my clanmate, who was ASKED to help even cabal warfare, which is COMPLETELY fine via Divine Mandates forum. He was assisting to make the battle 2 on 2, as opposed to 2 on 1. I also used straight hellstreams vs you, to force you to flee, had I wanted to kill you, I probably would have went for a dispel or two. The character you attacked had just been engaged with the extra Knight (to my knowledge) when you attacked him.