Annoying Cabal Guards!!!

[jibber]

Ah yes. It all comes down to who you want to fight and who you don't want to fight. Without cabal obligations, a shaman is deadly. You fight by his or her terms, or not at all.

Pick your fights wisely, and you'll never lose as a shaman. Or any other class for that matter..

I disagree. Or else they wouldn't be balanced. How many successful warriors have you seen compared to successful shamans? I've seen a ****ton more successful warriors. A warrior can easily take down a shaman. Shamans play attrition' date=' if you can't kill them quick, it's gonna be hard. That's where skill on your part comes in. It's not an edge for them if you're losing, it's an inadequacy of you. With Perniciant, I did very well, but there were ALOT of people who gave me quite a bit of trouble. Shamans aren't a cakewalk to play, but I love them. [/quote']

[sarcon]

Sarcon, just because you happen to be playing a shaman at the moment and this is a personal frustration, doesn't mean the system is broken or unfair.

If you are playing a shaman Syndicate for example, and you are hunting down a Knight, then don't fight that Knight in the Chasm. They have to leave eventually, because they have stuff to do. You know, just because it's EASIER to attack their home and have them come to you, doesn't mean that's the only way to do it. Hunt them down, track them to the ends of the Earth, and then utilize your shaman attrition game to destroy them.

But if you're already beating your opponent, and they're managing to escape? That's like saying we should change curse so that it affects teleport pills. Or that we should remove a certain Mysterum skill. Or that we should just have a "win" skill, where you are beating someone, and you cast it, and they automatically die.

I'm sorry that fights have gotten turned around on you, and I'm sorry that you've lost kills that you thought you should have had. But that doesn't mean the system is broken or unfair. You are playing a class that is nearly invincible when played correctly. Ask Samag - he had 50 some PKs and like 2 deaths on his shaman. The class has the potential to kill literally ANYONE, with relative ease. All it takes is a little patience. I don't see how it's fair to make it so that the thing that would give people a little security against the trump class is no longer in place.

Deal with your classes advantages AND disadvantages - don't assume that every time there is a disadvantage, that you have been somehow wronged.

And ditto to Montahg. Don't take thinly veiled cheap shots at other people's characters, because lord knows what some of us could say about you.

Wooo.. Slow down.. Relax.. Breath....

First and foremost.. I merely am annoyed with it and wanted some feedback. I have killed many with my shaman while they tried to run into there cabal guards. However, as Twinblades mentioned it is simply the point in how they are able to actually run inside.

If you all feel shamans are overpowering and this is a way to perhaps even them out, find by me.. This is my first shaman and this is the first time I really have noticed how PEOPLE actually really are dependent on this tactic. That is why I wanted to express myself.

Also.. if you ever have any thing to say about my Characters send me some PM and go to town. I didn't take any cheap shots any anybody.

I will even give you a PM list of all my Characters and you can make your feeble attempts at getting any frustrations you seem to have on me.. hopefully when you get OWNED you will feel better.

[a-guitarist]

Just remove the mana and hp regen from the cabal rooms. Problem solved, they can go in there and heal themselves, but they wont be able to heal or quit (because obviously above M you cant quit inside cabals.)

IMO this should be enough of a change.

Worst god damned idea ever. Seriously. I'd say give up while your ahead... but we passed that bridge a while ago.

a-g

[Twinblades713]

hopefully when you get OWNED you will feel better.

Hehehe.

[Evangelion]

I've said my piece, and wording your post to make it seem like I've said it in anything but a calm, collected manner is frankly silly and rude. I posted my thoughts on the matter - if you don't like them, then feel free to rebut or otherwise dissent. But instead of poking holes in the intention of the post, try poking holes in the content next time. Who knows, maybe you'll develop a valid argument.

And as far as your own characters, we've had this discussion once already. I don't see the need to repeat it.

My goal in this is not to attack you, nor is it to condemn your frustrations. It is merely to point out the fact that people, myself included, very often rush to find a sense of how something could be considered overpowered or "broken" before they look at how they themselves could simply be missing something. I suggest you take a long hard look at how you could solve this problem WITHOUT the IMM staff having to perform any coding or make any changes. Because frankly, in my mind, nothing needs to be changed, and I think if you examine the situation and the advice you've been given, you'll come to agree.

[Twinblades713]

I liken it to archer rangers. Why didn't they just deal with missile scrolls? There's always ways around them. Don't fight people with missile shield up. Just don't do it. Oh wait, you have to sometimes. Well then just guard ghregory or whatever the shopkeep's name is. Oh wait, maybe we don't have that kind of time to be sitting around like that. But the archer gets to deal with it, because he has to use the ups and downs of his class. Oh wait, it was changed. For a reason. I believe this should be changed, for the reason that there is abuse of cabal rooms.

My sarcasm is not directed maliciously at you, but I like to use it to make my point.

I still would like to point out a-g's idea to remove regen in all cabal rooms is an excellent one.

[tassinvegeta]

Those are some very drastic measures to solve a small hindrance for a single class.

[Twinblades713]

Those are some very drastic measures to solve a small hindrance for a single class.

That was sufficiently vague.

Edit: Although it's not a small hindrance when you have people booking it for their cabal at first sight of you, so they can battle with a cabal guard in front of them. I seen it, hehe. "No wait!!!! Let's fight HERE!"

You'd be saying something if whenever one of your warriors or dks got a foe to pretty hurt there was a 75% chance of him getting portaled to the other side of the lands. Just don't get him to pretty hurt and you'll do fine, I'd say.

[Aeva]

Those are some very drastic measures to solve a small hindrance for a single class.

this

[a-guitarist]

Those are some very drastic measures to solve a small hindrance for a single class.

While I totally agree with you, Tassin, room regen rates and removing mobs can be done without any 'coding' (not sure if OLC is really coding... I personally don't consider HTML or PHP coding), and all done on the main in less than 5 minutes. But...

Like I said to someone earlier, if this was a real problem... it probably would have been brought up again and again and again many times before this thread (The salt rivers would run deep). This could all be fixed by fighting in a new location for one class, maybe (MAYBE) two. But, oh well. I personally don't care about Shamans and think they can bugger off. Specially those who play the demon variety. And, as I was told recently (and since I was told this tactic, I can't believe it didn't dawn on me earlier), it takes nothing to kill that shaman who is 'waiting' for you. Sturgeonadium.

Or, you could make like Bali and come to the forum lashing out at people in very rude and obviously exasperated, overly animated ways (I'm talking to the point of 50's era movie racist stereotype ways). Bali, you really need to take some xanax, man. It's not healthy for someone to get that upset, dropping the expletives and such, so freely and to such a level. In addition to the health ramifications, it does not help you get into any public office to get so excited- except maybe in the WWF. Those Wild Life Fighters really know how to get **** done... even if it's in very violent ways.

a-g

[BigPapa]

We are helping Shaman why?

Chasing is probably the hardest skill in the game, and those that have to chase in order to finish an opponent have all the kudos in the world from me.

Shaman can be sluggish and still find their opponent out of moves and mana and not be the killer chaser than other classes need to be.

I thought it was against the rules to go in, heal your mals and stay in your cabal?

If so, then let the Cabal IMM deal with it, a few too many liberties and they will be back in the clan or demoted soon enough.

[Deykari]

The thing is.. it just doesn't affect a single class.

Sure, it has a lot of impact for shaman because they rely on mals, but how about the Lotus Scourge ninja that has to rely on their poison - with enemies just fleeing into the cabal, attempting to cure it whilst you stand and twiddle thumbs unable to do anything? Poisoned foes have much more scope to be able to get away from you. How about the other classes that have access to the mals that allow your foe entry into their cabal?

I don't think the consensus is that caballers shouldn't be allowed to cure mals. I think it's the fact that in doing so, the opponent is completely helpless to do anything whilst the caballer cures their mals. Bringing the cabal healer to the cabal gates means that the caballer in question can still cure their mals at the cabal, and the cabal guard will still auto-attack the pursuer for a little extra defense... but they're not safe, able to just sit inside their cabal.

Dey

[Psycho Child]

Necro's also use alot of mals. So do (insert at least one qclass here). Ninja's use alot of mals (nerve, caltrop, poison, blind), shamans, battlemages, some cleric builds, dk's certainly do, heck even pallys can curse and blind. Saying this only affects shamans is a bit narrow minded at best.

[BigPapa]

So a Maladictive that characters can run inside the cabal for include NERVE and Caltraps?

I thought it was for just some of the major Mals, Poison Plague for example.

[a-guitarist]

one. you're attacking them... at their fortified home. It's gonna be rough.

two. sure, many classes mave 'mals', but the have how many other options avaulable to them? paladins charge- not to mention they (and ninjas, DKs, monks and blademasters... who all have other things available to them...) can heal outside while the cheezer is pussyfooting it inside.

The shaman is all about mals. what else can they do? Can they stop someone from leaving combat? Can they toss out the sheer upfront damage of a battlemage, invoker, properly stanced monk? Well, they can cure light like dks and ninjas.

If anyone has a huge problem with this and is not a shaman I'm dissapointed in all the talk about the skill of the playerbase being drastically higher than 1.0 or 2.0.

Like bali said...if you don't want to fight them at their cabal don't draw them to it. It ain't exactly rocket surgery.

a-g

[Twinblades713]

Poison, plague, blind, dysentery, butt itches, etc.

[Guest emp_newb]

It is annoying I agree, but removing it would be garbage. a shaman who plagues you can LITERALLY watch you die. 16 hours of plague is a death sentence, no regen for anything is HORRIBLE. If you are after a cabaled player, either you are at war with them, or you want to be at war with them. Those cabals give you special privelages. If someones uses it once or twice, it is not abuse, if you are attacking them while they do other crap, which I have noticed you have done Sarcon, then do not expect them to honor you with a fight you can easily win. Removing this would give nothing but more advantages to shamans. I do not believe at all this should be removed.

On a side note, if you feel someone is abusing it, note them, their cabal, their cabal imm, and all other imms. If they are abusing a mechanic, they WILL get the strongside of Eshaines pimp hand.

[Ali_gmud]

Not only do I think the cabal guard should let you by to cure your ****, but I also reckon there should be arrows fired at you from the fortress of warmasters, flame arrows from the savant tower. Why should it be so easy that a single hero comes across a huge fortress and attempts to take it down, while it just stands there defenseless aside the little cabal guard. Where's the knights perched on the castles foritications, where's the warmasters archers walking across the battlements.

I hate shamans, I think they should all die in a fire.

Love play'em though.

[Twinblades713]

I hate shamans, I think they should all die in a fire.

Roll an invoker?

[Deykari]

Or a monk?

Dey

[Twinblades713]

Or a monk?

Dey

Silly rabbit, monks don't have fireballs and firestorms.

[a-guitarist]

Nope, but those Warriors will burn your **** down with affliction damage.

a-g

[Aulian]

Nope, but those Warriors will burn your **** down with affliction damage.

a-g

[L-A]

So if we stop this and you're a Knight that has to fight a shaman at your cabal, what then? He's not going to bother doing anything to find you other than ring the bell and two spells will effectively stop you getting to town while he goes to town with everything else he has.

FAIL.

I've played when you could be flee'd in after - I like this idea.

In the meantime perhaps the players of shaman could think about how to kill players without using the standard mals. Not everything should be a cookie cutter cast-a-thon. There were already a few good suggestions a few pages back.

L-A

[Mudder]

I like how it currently is. A shaman can actually kill a cabal guard rather easily. It takes some time, but they don't even need to be in combat.

If someone is resting inside their cabal, attack their guard. Land some mals on it. Then go and sleep yourself. You can be at full hp/mana faster than they can. Meanwhile, their cabal guard is dying.

They could catch plague from their cabal guard when coming back out.

Once the cabal guard dies (even if you are not in an enemy cabal) the "strong" guard leaves and the generic "Cabal guard" takes it's place. ANYONE can flee past the "weak" guard. Then when they go inside their cabal to heal, catch them while they sleep and mal them up.

Problem solved.

If anything were to be changed, they should let anyone flee past the guard(weak or strong). But then if this was done then cabal guards should ALWAYS let their cabal members inside, bloody or not. I would be for this change.

EDIT: Cabal guards would also need to return to attacking anyone near them that is not part of that cabal. Currently they attack everyone except anyone who is in a non-vendetta cabal.