friday night in the forsaken lands

[Deptore]

STOP THE BICKERING it's not getting anyone anywhere. You have NO right to discriminate against someone's rp because others have set a bad rep before him. Who's to say that he doesn't have a proper RP reason to kill you or anyone else on sight? You? Just because someone doesn't sit down for a tea party and explain why they're about to kill you DOES NOT MEAN THEY HAVE NO REASON.

In real life there are people who stalk, molest, rape, and kill people they've never seen before. FL shouldn't and will not be any different. Yes this is a RP and PK mud, but that doesn't mean every character who PKs you must talk to you about it. Hell they can kill you and walk away without saying a work, ignoring your whines and protests. How do you not know that the character who just did so to you doesn't RP his reasons to only his closest allies, that maybe the character himself has emotion issues of trust or could even be shy about speaking so they don't explain every decision they want to make. To openly talk that way about someone's RP and then try to force them to defend it in front of others is just wrong. If you just wanted to ask him why or was curious about his RP you could've asked for the player of the character to PM you. This would have saved everyone from having to hear this type of complaint for the 33838748949th time.

No player should ever, ever try to tell another how to play their character. No one should expect something to be changed simply because they think it isn't fair. Killing someone once isn't wrong, multi-killing is, now if you keep talking to them to aggravate and think that'll protect you it won't because y ou just gave them a reason to kill you again. Do you think the fact that you're in weak equipment, or hold up a white flag should stop the RP of another character? Take the death, move on. You should have respect for the other person, the RP they've developed, their PK skill, and the time they just dedicated to chasing you about to kill you. Take the death, move on.

Next time you have a problem with a character or player you should take it to the prayer forum, the fact that you didn't and brought it to the General forum says to me that you don't really believe he did something he should be punished for.

P.S. If you as a pre-pinn allow a pinn to get that close without verifying that they're non-hostile then you deserve to be attacked in my opinion. Always where, always consider someone an enemy first in my opinion. I'm even weary around anyone of another alignment even if I do know them and have talked to them.

[TheNewGuy]

Seriously, cut your whining now. An evil guy attacked you? Wtf? They can do that? I mean, they're so cute and cuddly! Why would they do that? Aren't they supposed to be on tea parties with all the healers, hug cute bunnies, and buy the poor beggars lunch?

By whining like you do now, you will only piss of the rest of the world, and make them want to kill you too. If you're in his pk range, then you're fair game.

The of course, one can discuss whether it is classy or not to go for people on a lower rank. But lack of class does not warrant the whining you spew over the forums. Handle it in game. Kill whoever you think don't act nice, and full loot. Repeat if necessary. Or put a bounty if you can't kill him.

[Twinblades713]

Point is, at the very minimum... half the reason to play here is for the interaction of rp. Pk is pk. I think it's a courtesy to rp why you would like to kill someone in this game based on its foundation as a pk/rp mud. I support the idea that we should move away from counterstrike rp as much as possible. I love Raargant for that post he did awhile back.

[Deptore]

I liked the post, but the fact still stands that to force a player to rp with someone before they pk is just ... there's no way. Would there be a time limit, would you have to do it until they've understood? I've had clerics who tried to convert me to their god, and when I refused they killed me. I've had Clerics who just killed me, yes this is a RP and PK mud. But that doesn't mean you must RP while you PK. IF a Nexus gets on, RPs with his Nexus buddy for an hour and here comes a lvl 44 warrior in the area and he goes and kills him is this wrong? We as players and even the IMMs will never know how a character acts all of the time. I don't see FL turning into a pure PK mud, but I do think that something needs to happen that brings the small player base we have closer together.

I've a few ideas that I'll bring up, we'll see how it goes.

[TheNewGuy]

Of course RP is important. RP:ing doesn't always necessarily mean saying something, though. But think for a while about these two situations:

1. I'm going to kill someone. Do I really have anything to say to him, then? Well, maybe, it depends on my motive. If my motive is that he just killed my best friend, then I prolly have a lot to say to him. If my motive is that I can gain something from the kill, and it isn't personal in any way (like a bounty, DK want feedz dah malform, etc), then I don't see why I would have anything to say to my victim. Why would I want to give him a warning? (as in, why would I, the character want to do that, not ooc.)

2. I've just killed someone. Would I want to talk to him? Depends. First off, was it personal? If it was, then I prolly still have a lot to say. If not, do I feel any regrets? If yes, then I might want to talk. You might also not want to talk, as the said regrets would hold you back. If no, then business is done, and I prolly have nothing to say at all, since I didn't care about the one I killed in the first place.

NOTE! Only be silent when it fits your RP best. And don't make your chars so that being silent is usually the best option ffs!

[Deptore]

I agree on your points, sort of. It's not that I want to keep a debate going, yes if someone killed my friend I'd want them to know why I was chasing them to kill them. Someone else on the other hand might want the jump, and might also want to protect their friend. If I kill player A and player B kills me and tells me that it's because I killed A, then what's the chances of me just killing player A again for whining to his friend and getting me killed?

I don't feel like there's anything wrong with silent pk, as long as the player is consistant with their RP. I do however feel there's a problem in the amount of silent pk we have. One or two silent pkers isn't that bad, but with our small playerbase the amount of complaints we have about silent pk is pretty bad. Either a lot of people complain about the same character or almost all of our evils and a few others are silent pk only.

[Grim_Reefer]

What it all comes down to is who plays to pk and who plays to rp.

I'm gonna make a poll about that.

[Aulian]

Shrug, it can be considered low class indeed. And in no circumstance should they multi-kill you, especially with a qclass that would be heavily frowned upon if you are pre-50.

However... They can kill you when you enter pk range. Thats what pk range is all about. Infact I dare say compared to 1.0 this is pretty tame. I can remember nerarldis (shakes a fist at toten) destroying my monk on its way to 50 same with Goliant (shakes the other fists at despiser) who made me his personal biatch every time he saw me.

[Aulian]

Grim... Wtf is up with yuor avatar... NASTY

[Pali]

So if I were to go and attack the evil pinns and kill them with my neutral char it would be wrong?

Depends why you were attacking them.

LIKE I SAID, I FOUGHT MEPHISOLEER WHEN HE FOUGHT ME, I FOUGHT ZAULAEL WITH RANKS ON ME WITH NO HESITATION, DIED TWICE.

Maybe if you ran instead of sticking around to fight when you have a huge disadvantage you wouldn't be so annoyed by this? Personally, I view the fact that someone's not at pinn the same way I view any other weakness they have... something to be exploited. It is not at all a reason to not kill them.

[Malicious]

Way to much to quote, agree with, and refute.

I have one piece of advice for you, oldskooler. Desist from your "evils shouldn't be able to do whatever they want to" attitude. You will have much more fun if you don't get wrapped up in policing the RP of others, and leave that up to the Imms. Serious infractions (or questions you have) on RP, of course, could be taken up with Imms, of course.

I say this as someone who understand full well what it means to be in your position. It has happened to EVERYONE, I'm sure. I'm sure that even Tassin has been on the receiving end on what appears to be Pk without RP.

I guess my point is that evils really can come up with any RP to Pk pretty much anyone they want. Is that wrong? No. Does that go against what FL stands for? No.

Does it suck for noobs like me? Oh yes.

There will FOREVER be "rollplayers" and "roleplayers" (as drood put it well) in FL. The sooner your accept it, the sooner you can get over it and concentrate on just having fun.

I respect the RPer much more than someone who can stomp my face in. It doesn't mean that Evil chars (Or goods killing evils, for that matter) are required to, or should be looked down upon as "crappy RPers" if they don't, stick around your corpse to give you an RP explination on why they "chose" you.

Although, as a personal opinion, I do think it's tacky for any player to CONSTANTLY roll Chaotic Evil char after char with the intention on comming up with some RP just to fit their desire to PK their pants off.

[Grim_Reefer]

The thing is, all this silent pk and whatnot that everyone gets mad about... it isn't that it isn't rp'ed or there is no rp or whatever... But most of the people that play this mud have downright awful rp, awful ideas, and are just unimaginative, so it makes the game seem like a bunch of stale killing is going on. We can't get mad at them for not trying, but we can encourage them to get out of their mom's basement and learn how to rp like a man.

[Twinblades713]

Hehe. Yes, Grim.

[Aulian]

Wow you guys can argue about the same points for AGES. Much respect for that.

[MadCowDisease]

The thing is' date=' all this silent pk and whatnot that everyone gets mad about... it isn't that it isn't rp'ed or there is no rp or whatever... But most of the people that play this mud have downright awful rp, awful ideas, and are just unimaginative, so it makes the game seem like a bunch of stale killing is going on. We can't get mad at them for not trying, but we can encourage them to get out of their mom's basement and learn how to rp like a man.[/quote']

holy hell i agree with grim.. oh god.. the apocalypse cometh..:eek:

[f0xx]

The thing is' date=' all this silent pk and whatnot that everyone gets mad about... it isn't that it isn't rp'ed or there is no rp or whatever... But most of the people that play this mud have downright awful rp, awful ideas, and are just unimaginative, so it makes the game seem like a bunch of stale killing is going on. We can't get mad at them for not trying, but we can encourage them to get out of their mom's basement and learn how to rp like a man.[/quote']

Yeah, although after death, most people are quite offensive and if the person behind the other character is not a good RPer, he withdraws into his shell once he is attacked on a RP level.

I actually find it a VERY bad taste of RP when I get asked, "Why do you attack me?". This is like saying, "You know you need a RP reason to attack me, now lets see what it is".

[Aulian]

Yeah, although after death, most people are quite offensive and if the person behind the other character is not a good RPer, he withdraws into his shell once he is attacked on a RP level.

I actually find it a VERY bad taste of RP when I get asked, "Why do you attack me?". This is like saying, "You know you need a RP reason to attack me, now lets see what it is".

Ah why not?

If I was being attacked in the street I would probably be wondering why the **** they were doing it and should the opportunity arise where Im not defending myself I'd probably ask also.

If Im in a cabal and you silent attack me, so be it for most cases. But random attacks have EVERY RIGHT to be questioned... Its just bloody common sense for gods sake.

[Twinblades713]

Exactly. What's a logical answer to not need to ask? If you get a gist why before. Even a speechless emote can convey it.

DK narrows his eyes viciously as he brandishes , its aura pulsing hungrily.

DK kicks your face in!

[Grim_Reefer]

Another problem is, people take things too personally. I will get smacked around and looted and dressed up in a schoolgirl outfit and paraded around town, but its like... I'll be damned if I break RP. All of these things are happening to your character, not to you. It is not a person that you can be mad at for killing you without saying anything or not having a reason, it is a character. The other day a 73 year old woman was raped and set on fire by a young man doing door to door magazine subsrciption sales. Was there a reason behind that? No, **** happens. But on the real, if everybody would stop taking everything so personally and just relax and enjoy this game, then I think our community will flourish and we can all be much happier in the long run.

[Deykari]

The problem with the "Why did you attack me?" question is that it can be too easily misconstrued as the other player's frustration taking over and them 'demanding' to know why they just got smacked about as a player rather than an attempt at roleplay.

Same thing goes with trash-talk. It's virtually impossible to roleplay a character that is genuinely talking-trash IC without everyone thinking you're just a whiny little **** as a player, unless you make it REALLY obvious that it's your character IG.

Dey

[TheNewGuy]

Speaking of "why did you kill me?". Why would an evil bastard mass murderer answer that question? And if he would, why would he tell the truth? The evil bastard would answer the question truthfully only if he desires so himself. Thus, one shouldn't even believe whatever bogus reason someone might have for killing, as the real reason actually could be completely different.

[Twinblades713]

Heh, as my RP, I had/have a character poking around that almost never tells the truth in most situations where it can apply. If someone asks me how I'm doing... well I'll answer it truthfully probably. But for any reasoning, what I'm like, why I do things I do, I'm a pathological liar. It's great fun.

[Guest emp_newb]

Yea, Loquaciant got Maerothir's trusting nature pretty well with that . I think I gave him like 50k because he was talking about building a home for his sister. I said ok, if you truly need help, and god has placed you before me, I will aid.

[SumDood]

I know where Grim's avatar came from

[oldskooler]

I have to apologize, because I didn't mean to get ppl this riled up. What I was looking for was an answer, and I have gotten it. Instead of just writing a note to imm IG to find out the answer, I came here.

I usually play goods, especially tribunals cuz in life I'm all about justice, equality, integrity all that. I tried to make a neutral in order to gain some evil "friends" so to speak or at least ppl who I can go get gear with or even go there with. But it seems they quickly turn to enemies as soon as they hit pinnacle.

Also, to correct things people believed I said. I never get personally mad at a person, it is just a game. I should have made a poll to see if people liked the idea of a 3-4 rank above/below pk range. I don't know how people automatically start saying I want to take away pk ranges. Deykari you need to lighten up a lot. Re: Tassin's rp, I wasn't mad or trying to get him into trouble or whatever people think (which I really don't care) I was seeing what the players and imms felt the line is for "enforced rp" is. Which we seem to have the players thoughts, but no imms.

Fact is I think this is the best mud out there, so we should be the best players to complement it. Not just by pking, but by having the most enriched, enriching mud experience wise. So I guess I feel that rp need to be part of that.

Face it, we all need eachother, Otherwise we'd all be playing with ourselves *coughs* ahem, by ourselves.

Thank you to everyone of sound judgement and reasoning who gave thoughtful answers re: these subjects. This is why we have the general discussion group, if you can't post ig stuff here then where can you? Also please don't automatically disagree with someone's point of view or dislike them because you don't like their points of view, they may just surprise you and be the only one who agrees with you on another.

This should end this thread hopefully.