Ideas for DK improvement?

[tassinvegeta]

I've been waiting for this for so long, when the changes happen I think I'll make that my new birthday.

[Behrens]

The complaints against DKs right now that I see as serious are:

Losing to bashlock: A DK has no real defense especially against staff warriors, they can't be a prot. shield class, obviously, but they need something like Paladin's Mounted Combat.

Only needing to bash: A DK waste time if they don't bash, except against mages, who almost always have sickening saves, since DKs can't last long against mages and can't reduce saves (other than curse), they're screwed there.

Malforms: Dual malforms are now out of the question. The gain is FAR too slow to allow any but the most obscenely overpowered to use 1 handed malforms, negating any points for DKs who use shields or dual wield.

Basically, I see DKs as a hybrid that fits their role fairly well, but needs some retuning against increasing melee and mage power based on excellent saves equipment and excellent melee equipment. I am examing ways to correct these skills, while keeping their power level equal to their nemeses, paladins.

Magic strike is the first step here, and should be in by the weekend, G-d willing.

[Psycho Child]

You realize of course Behrens, that if I ever win the lottery you will be recieving a large monthy check, and a truck load of beer?

[random_clown]

Beer? Does that mean more typos? hah

[mya]

Can we plase have a little preview of the things you inserting ?

Prety please Behrens ?

[Khran]

Your fireball does UNSPEAKABLE things to Mya.

What's that? fireball got put back in it's rightful throne to power? WEWT!

lol, i wish

[Fiere]

On another note, Behrens, it seems to me that the problems you mentioned also afflict bards, but I've already brought that up, and it seemed the consensus was to give it some time.

[Behrens]

Can we plase have a little preview of the things you inserting ?

Prety please Behrens ?

'HARDEN DEFENSES'

Syntax cast 'harden defenses'

For many years, the servants of the Dark Knight guild have been in

fear of a simple stick of wood in the hands of skilled warriors. But,

the Dark Knights were not about to lower themselves to learning the

meager skills of simple barbarians, instead learning to weave powerful

magics into their shields, preventing less offensive weapons from

penetrating their now amplified shields. More offensive weapons like

maces and axes will not be affected by this magic.

REQUIRES: SHIELD BLOCK

[Deykari]

Tasty!

Can't wait to see the pally changes too, but I'd rather have the surprise for both.

Dey

[Boy Kid Wonder]

And one for pallies please? haha

[Deykari]

'FLYING CHARGE'

Syntax charge

Not content with their overpowered mounted charge, Paladins came up with a way to strike a killing blow whilst mounted atop Goliathv2.0, the Pegasus.

REQUIRES: Flying, Mounted.

---

Flying from the skies like a Valkyrie, Pallies flying charge +++DESTROYS+++ you!

[Boy Kid Wonder]

'Zealous Rewards'

Syntax cast zealous

Over years and years the paladins have been nothing short of zealous, honor-bearing lightwalkers. Forever and ever shall this be true. So they are rewarded for this. The rewards grant them -200 to their armor. -50 spell saves. 50/50 hit dam. And +15 to all skills and spells.

[Guest emp_newb]

'Zealous Rewards'

Syntax cast zealous

Over years and years the paladins have been nothing short of zealous, honor-bearing lightwalkers. Forever and ever shall this be true. So they are rewarded for this. The rewards grant them -200 to their armor. -50 spell saves. 50/50 hit dam. And +15 to all skills and spells.

Well, all the skill +'s and ac in the world won't make you play a pally better

[mya]

Thank you Behrens.

I had a 20 min post but it was eated by the wrath of auto.forum.log.out. :X

Didnt espect DK's to have sutch a defensive skill, i could that comming to paladins who have a lot less weapons than to DK's.

But i think one now can espect more malformed swords and exotics, as oposed polearms, wich is a good thing to the receving end of the weapon.

Also this now reinforces the idea that you only use dual wield vs magic classes. All other get the defensive treatment.

I hope that does not protects them from exotics, since they are the best ofensive weapon out there since they can hit high damage, and vulnerabilities, at least avian. But then again you cant hold to a shield if im using a exotic, unless you are a certain cleric with ranks on me.

PS: Boy kid wonder you forget the after effect drain, as in 2 hours of Death by tarot.

[Boy Kid Wonder]

You're right. New dk skill : Slay. 'nough said.

[Chayesh]

You're right. New dk skill : Slay. 'nough said.

I thought they already had that one.

Oh no, my bad....that's DIE.

[Boy Kid Wonder]

Hahaha you're so not very funny at all Chayesh.

Smart ***. I'll show you with my new dk.

[Fiere]

I like that harden defenses thing, seems very well balanced just looking at it. Good skill, but not overpowered, as it can be gotten around.

[Dale]

Losing to bashlock: A DK has no real defense especially against staff warriors, they can't be a prot. shield class, obviously, but they need something like Paladin's Mounted Combat.

Unholy strength could act as anlarge or mounted charge and decrese the bash lag, or jus tmounted charge and their oen cool mount.

[Goomf]

You know how buff a dkn would be with cleave + mounted charge?

*shudders*

[Hegemon]

Cat's Meow.

I do understand how this fits in, but (heh, and I know I completely sound like Bally here...), DK theory is really more about quick fights. To that end, They'd really benefit more, in my opinion, from more offense.

Sure, more defense is always good, but they had troubles with warriors since the dawn of time, and fired weapons really has not helped matters.

I mean, I don't know, maybe this shield thing will help negate that. If this new Decepticon Shield could block arrows, I could see it being a whole lot sweeter.....but...I really don't see how a uni-wielding (which you'd have to in order to use this new ability) DK is going to be any more effective.. If anything, it should be more a matter of putting that damage out there, and dealing with the fundamental flaws. I have not seen this new thing, so, hell, maybe it will make DKs an uber class. But from my perspective, you want to be focusing more on those short fights, and giving up a NICE two handed weapon, or a sweet dual wield combo, in order to use this very situational ability, just doesn't sound superfly.

I'm assuming, then, that the idea would be to make Paladins more offensive, in order to balance things out as you stated before, Big B. So maybe switch that around in a nerfed version, and give DKs more offense. Which then brings up the question do Paladins need more D?

Seems like a design philosohpy should be settled on, and honed. Pretty much all the other classes seem to have a really clear "role". In that you (we, the Pbase, nobody specificly) pretty much know how to roll with I'd say 80% of the current classes.

These are my options, these are not commandments. Before you let loose the Master Ninja Flame Squad, just sit back and look at what you are doing. Getting angry. Over a game. (In no way targeted at any specific individual).

Remember kids, before you tear down something, ask yourself if it might be a better idea to contribute.

Yes.

[F-3000]

I know...

SUICIDE

Syntax: suicide

A cool way to delete your DK. Will splatter lots and lots of blood.

[Hegemon]

Syntax: Becomeonewiththeforce

"Become more powerful than you can possibly imagine".

Level one skill, 10 mana, you KNOW someone would do it.

[mya]

That suicide thing is actualy a nide idea, if you make it like Blademaster suicide in battle, but with a twist, not automated, as in must be used as a regular skill.

You suicide yourself and deal huge damage on target

But now realy on Paladin being more defensive that a DK, the diference is only on spells. Because DK's are more phisicaly defensive, but Pals beat them with Santuary and cure critical.

[Behrens]

Hegemon, the point is that I want DKs using strategy, and thinking about why they're fighting certain ways.

I don't want a "default" weapon that they use every time, and just run people over with bashes, or any other "fast fight" ability. I want strategy, thinking, and knowing the best idea for the situation.

A warrior who used a power staff against an invoker should be laughed out of the building, but DKs who use only one malform are smarter? I LIKE varied strategy. Should I use two weapons against this thief, a polearm? Would sword and shield handle this warrior better than a huge polearm, or would dual wielding work best?

I want DKs to have to know their enemy and adapt to them.

Paladins will be adjusted as well, and I will keep in mind the varying roles of DKs vs. Pallies, believe me. I love both classes, and don't want their uniqueness to be compromised. I just want some new "style" to work with.