Out of curiosity...

[Imoutgoodbye]

hmmm....this has been edited. After much forum searching over the last few months worth of posts, I see where I must go.

[Aulian]

You must come home Valek... We need a religious guide.

[Imoutgoodbye]

You must come home Valek... We need a religious guide.

I've been home for three days.

Quote for the day: It is an old tactic of cruel people to kill kindness in the name of virtue.

[Pali]

You must come home Valek... We need a religious guide.

You've got me!

[Imoutgoodbye]

You've got me!

Your, um, "vision quests" aren't exactly what the people need.

[Pali]

Psh. I'd never, ever call tripping a vision quest (incidentally, nor do I trip anymore). I can't stand people who make drugs out to be some sort of religious experience... it's just chemicals interfering with the proper functioning of your brain.

Damned hippies.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Damned hippies.

*poke*

I missed you, too. Now, I'm off to work....usual graveyard shift.

[Pali]

I just hope that poke was in no way insinuating that I am a hippie... I am NOT. I hate hippies (except for a few exceptions). They annoy the crap out of me on a regular basis, they smell bad, they attach far too much importance to their drug experiences, and they (along with crackheads and other addicts, who I also loathe) give drug users who are rational and responsible about it a bad name.

[Aulian]

What I want to know is why Valek hasnt madea priest char in game and become a herald and converted people to his cause in a giant following that then does his will more then they would their own gods to fulfill his own plots for power.

I'd join...

[Guest emp_newb]

While I understand that you as a person are responsible Pali, I find the concept of a responsible drug user to be utterly flawed

[Mali]

Pali aka Bill Hicks little brother

[Croyvern]

I just realized we dont have a resident "in game hippie". Odd when you consider the number of people who choose "addict" and manaage to live long not so productive lives. Consider this a challenge to you all, here is a RP that would be interesting/annoying/commical as hell. Heh, good thing I am not in charge or Hippie would be an extra flag like addict that caused a defeceit to meditation/vigil and a bonus to mental saves, since hippies do not really pay attention to the world around them. ROFL Can you imagine, poor vampires, That hippie wont look you in the eyes!

[Pali]

While I understand that you as a person are responsible Pali' date=' I find the concept of a responsible drug user to be utterly flawed [/quote']

It's no more flawed than the concept of a responsible alcohol user.

[Guest emp_newb]

I also do not understand that concept either

[Evangelion]

It's no more flawed than the concept of a responsible alcohol user.

Was this supposed to be a successful argument?

[Pali]

Considering that there ARE responsible alcohol users, yes, it was.

[Evangelion]

Considering that there ARE responsible alcohol users' date=' yes, it was.[/quote']

Sure.

The difference is that responsible alcohol users are the ones who utilize certain types of drinks, IE red wine for their health benefits. These alcohol users are not those who binge drink, or drink for non-health purposes (namely, getting drunk). These health benefits can be experienced for any individual who consumes the appropriate quantities of alcohol.

You cannot tell me that there are any health benefits to using marijuana or any other such drug. Now, you may be saying, "But wait, there are medicinal benefits to individuals who have a variety of health conditions or illnesses!" Well, that's all well and good. But again, therein lies the difference between a responsible drug user and a responsible drinker of alcohol. Anyone can experience the beneficial effects of alcohol, but only individuals with pre-existing conditions can experience the beneficial effects of marijuana. The exception to this, obviously, being the boost to alpha waves which is commonly associated with the enhanced creativity that marijuana users experience. However, every individual that is gifted with a fully functioning brain can find alternatives methods to boost those brain waves, without the harmful carcinogenic side effects of smoking marijuana or the immuno-suppression that is commonly associated with long term use.

[Pali]

You're defining responsible to mean "never does anything except for health reasons". I'm defining responsible to mean behaving in a rational, non-violent, non-dickish manner and not putting anyone at risk with your actions (i.e. not driving while intoxicated). I fail to see how it is in any way irresponsible to go to a bar and have a few drinks because it feels good and is fun so long as you don't cause any trouble... and since when did having fun stop being a valid reason to do something? Why does everything have to be for the betterment of one's health? What's wrong with rationally examining and accepting the health risks associated with your actions?

[Evangelion]

If cancer and increased risk of infectious disease is an "acceptable" risk to you, and comparable in your mind to the effects of even recreational drinking, then I think your definition of responsible action is a little skewed.

[Pali]

Again, you are defining responsible to require that an activity not be unhealthy. I do not. I use responsible in a social context regarding how behavior impacts others. If one's behavior does not have negative consequences for others, I consider it to be responsible. If one's behavior does have negative consequences for others, I consider it to be irresponsible. It's that simple.

I'm never going to argue that smoking weed is healthy, because it isn't (of course, there are certain exceptions to this). It's not as unhealthy as it is often characterized to be, but it IS bad for your body. What I will argue is that not everyone has perfect health as their number one priority, and we should not be stigmatized for that.

[Imoutgoodbye]

Responsible. That's something I've had to consider quite a bit with all the talk of smoking bans.

Here's responsible. As Pali said, actions do not affect others. To me, this includes NOT smoking/drinking/whatever around people who are not comfortable with your habit, whatever that may be. Being respectful of the health of others.

I have free will. I choose to smoke. I don't smoke in my house. I don't smoke in the car. Only outside and upwind of other people. At least a ten to fifteen yard distance.

I'll also admit a fondness for anti-anxiety medication and pain killers. Just to get somebody's goat.

[Evangelion]

We're talking about two different kinds of responsibility.

As some of you may know, I'm a former boy scout. Having maintained my involvement with my troop since graduating high school, I have had the privilege to sit on an individuals Eagle Scout board of review. One of the questions they were asked was, "What is the difference between a boy and a man?" Their answer was, "A boy takes responsibility for his actions. A man takes responsibility for his life."

Since that time, I have tried to adopt a very similar point of view, one of which is very applicable to this situation. You can call the action of recreational smoking or drinking responsible. You can handle these choices in a responsible way. You can even say that, with a differing outlook on life, there may be nothing wrong with these choices, because perfect health is not a priority, or even a consideration for you.

However, you still are not taking responsibility for your life. If you die tomorrow from whatever drugs you're using, will you be satisfied with how people will look back on your life? Will you be happy with the things you've accomplished, and how your friends and family remember you? I know I'm starting to sound preachy, but I've had my fair share of friends get hurt or killed from drugs. Did I know they were doing drugs? Sure did. Did they think they were acting responsible? Sure did. Are they, if they're still alive, regretting their decisions? Sure are.

I know I'm not going to change your minds over an internet forum. I might not even be able to change your minds if we were friends in real life.

But what I will do is leave you with a final thought:

"I read of a man who stood to speak

At the funeral of a friend.

He referred to the dates on her tombstone

From the beginning to the end.

He noted that first came the date of her birth

And spoke of the following date with tears,

But he said what mattered most of all

Was the dash between those years.

For that dash represents all the time

That she spent alive on earth

And now only those who loved her

Know what that little line is worth.

For it matters not, how much we own,

The cars, the house, the cash,

What matters is how we live and love

And how we spend our dash.

So think about this long and hard;

Are there things you'd like to change?

For you never know how much time is left

That can still be rearranged.

If we could just slow down enough

To consider what's true and real

And always try to understand

The way other people feel.

And be less quick to anger

And show appreciation more

And love the people in our lives

Like we've never loved before.

If we treat each other with respect

And more often wear a smile,

Remembering that this special dash

Might only last a little while.

So when your eulogy is being read

With your life's actions to rehash

Would you be proud of the things they say

About how you spent your dash?"

[Psycho Child]

I spent my dash chasing women and playing video games. ^^

[Pali]

However' date=' you still are not taking responsibility for your life.[/quote']

Yes I am.

If you die tomorrow from whatever drugs you're using, will you be satisfied with how people will look back on your life?

Yes.

Will you be happy with the things you've accomplished, and how your friends and family remember you?

Yes.

I thoroughly enjoy my life, and I am well liked and respected by nearly everyone who knows me. I live as I choose, and whether society as a whole will even notice my passing or not isn't something I care about.

As for the smoking bans mentioned above... my gripe with them isn't with the goal of improving public health, but the method. I see this as an issue of freedom versus government control. In privately-owned establishments, the government should not be dictating what people can and cannot do. If enough people are bothered by smoking in bars, there should be enough demand that smoke-free bars would be a sound financial move by the bar owners themselves. If there AREN'T enough people to support the opening of smoke-free bars, then clearly it isn't a big enough issue with people and should just be ignored.

[Deykari]

I agree with Pali.

Also, I got Evangelion/Balinor wasted in real life. His argument fails.

P.S Incase you retort with some logical reason why I'm wrong, honestly, I'm pretty near wasted right now and don't care in the slightest.

Dey