Malforms=OMG, WTF, AHHHH!!!!!!

[TheNewGuy]

Or even better, roll a DK, and rip up the whole p-base into pieces, and prove that it's OP that way.

[Evangelion]

All we have is a powerful ability combined with a very skilled vet, in a cabal that increases his power, with a Qrace that makes him even more powerful. Yes it's a power combo, but I've been here long enough to realize that as he con-dies another will appear and people will move on to complaining about the new one while your average ability DKs with malforms will be overlooked.

If you feel that malforms are too powerful then instead of complaining like this post a pk log of you fighting against a DK with one. Show your equipment and his and try to give proof that something is wrong.

All I'll say is that out of all of the DKs right now (people have said there are three), I have fought Masokant the least.

[Grim_Reefer]

[Deptore]

Must be from your avatar, but the first thing I did was look for the cat's puke.

[Jedi_Donkey]

Ok, I never said they shouldn't be user only, nosac and so on from their work put in. But if you have an incredible weapon such as that from a class, there should be an equal out there for everyone else that isn't a DK to try to get. There really isn't, especially given the abilities(that I will not dare name). But, they are a viable class without a malform at all, why not just make them a strong owner weapon? Why make them insanelycrazynutbusterahhhh!???

[Iusedtobesomebody]

The following skills/spells must be removed from each class, lest they be deemed OP in the following weeks:

1. Pry (he stole my stuff without winning a PK! OP!)

2. Assassinate (one hit kill? OMG OP!)

3. Goliath (nigh-unlimited moves? OP!)

4. Mana Charge (he did you-know-what? OP!)

5. Malform (super-weapons? OMG OP!)

6. Beast Call (he can gain more than one charmie! OP!)

7. Warcry (hit/dam AND saves? OP!)

8. Rage (insane hit/dam AND hp? OP!)

9. Dancing Blade (it hits and trips? OP!)

10. Ghoul Touch (bogs me down? OP!)

11. Charge (big damage AND lag? OP!)

12. Chii Bolt (random dispel? OP!)

13. Portal (a free recall to ANYWHERE? OP!)

14. Blasphemy (prevents me from communing at all? OP!)

15. Critical Strike (mals from a melee? OP!)

16. Divine Retribution (unblockable damage? OP!)

Then, afterward, we can remove all quest classes and quest races too.

-p.s. Note the flag.

[Evangelion]

You forgot Power Word Kill, Fury, and Silence.

[Deykari]

The following skills/spells must be removed from each class, lest they be deemed OP in the following weeks:

1. Pry (he stole my stuff without winning a PK! OP!)

2. Assassinate (one hit kill? OMG OP!)

3. Goliath (nigh-unlimited moves? OP!)

4. Mana Charge (he did you-know-what? OP!)

5. Malform (super-weapons? OMG OP!)

6. Beast Call (he can gain more than one charmie! OP!)

7. Warcry (hit/dam AND saves? OP!)

8. Rage (insane hit/dam AND hp? OP!)

9. Dancing Blade (it hits and trips? OP!)

10. Ghoul Touch (bogs me down? OP!)

11. Charge (big damage AND lag? OP!)

12. Chii Bolt (random dispel? OP!)

13. Portal (a free recall to ANYWHERE? OP!)

14. Blasphemy (prevents me from communing at all? OP!)

15. Critical Strike (mals from a melee? OP!)

16. Divine Retribution (unblockable damage? OP!)

Then, afterward, we can remove all quest classes and quest races too.

-p.s. Note the flag.

You forgot about comprehend languages. I hate it that people can use that spell, and then see if I am or aren't using correct spelling when drunk or an Ogre! OP!

Dey

[Iusedtobesomebody]

You forgot Power Word Kill' date=' Fury, and Silence.[/quote']

OP!

[Deptore]

While he's literally drowning in his own sarcasm he does have a point. All classes have one or two things that make them strong. Without them they'd loose a lot of pk ability. A DK spends months to get his malform, and the smaller playerbase makes it even harder. They're unable to multi-kill the same easy target for it, they have less targets available on the whole. If we really want to consider taking away these skills from those classes where do we stop or even slow down for that matter?

Should Mana Charge be taken away from Invokers because it makes them cast faster than another mage? Should a ranger not have pets if he has a cabal charmie too? Should an Evil Cleric have his aura go up with pk history and have so many side effects from it?

If we're seriously looking into doing this and not just having a quick flame against a class we need proof. Just saying he omgwtfpwned you and you couldn't do anything says nothing to me. Did you have sanc up, did you take advantage of an opening... there's so many things that could've lead to your death than it simply being a weapon is overpowered.

P.S.- I wonder if one of the reasons people are complaining so much right now is that with this "rare drought" a DK doesn't have to hunt for weapons after he has his malform(s)?

[Psycho Child]

There is no rare drought. 80% of the rares I've gone looking for to equip myself with recently have been in. I'd hardly call that a drought by any means.

[Deptore]

Thus the " ". There isn't a drought, just the favorites are gone.

[TheNewGuy]

Ok' date=' I never said they shouldn't be user only, nosac and so on from their work put in. But if you have an incredible weapon such as that from a class, there should be an equal out there for everyone else that isn't a DK to try to get. There really isn't, especially given the abilities(that I will not dare name). But, they are a viable class without a malform at all, why not just make them a strong owner weapon? Why make them insanelycrazynutbusterahhhh!???[/quote']

I completely disagree. There shouldn't be weapons like level 10 malforms out there to be found, because other classes have other upsides instead. And about DKs being a viable class without malforms... About as much as thieves are without hide.

[tassinvegeta]

I rarely post on debates' date=' but this is one seems worse off than the assassinate thread. Even with a full malform or two, DK's still die. I know every one of the three has died with their full malforms. All it takes is skill on the part of the other person fighting the DK. Worried about them fireballing you? Stand in a crowded room. Freaked by the charmie? Run around the DK for a few hours, detect magic, whatever you gotta do and wait for the charm spell to drop, then you'll have the charmie working for you against the DK. Yeah, some of the malforms should be looked at a bit and toned a little. Nothing's perfect.[/quote']

Oh I see what this thread is about. You guys don't like me being against assassinate so you're attacking my favorite class. Shame on you.

[Pali]

I don't think invokers are made or broken by mana charge.

A fully charged staff DOUBLES the power of an invoker, if not more. I'm not sure I'd say that full malforms truly double the power of a DK... but even if they do (or better), they're also FAR more difficult to get than a fully charged staff is for an invoker.

[-Totenkopf-]

I am wasn't even talking about masokants malforms Couldn't post a log, it'd show malform affects I think malforms are 99% fine. They can stay owner only no sac. I just think a few of their abilities happen a little (err, lot) too often, for their powerfulness. Ever fought Masokant as a communer. Even without his demon skill its a waste of time. At least one round in three, your rooted for a number of hours. Even played a maledictive/casting class vs Imseik. Even tried landing a maledy or similar spell on him after that ability has taken full effect (all of about 5 rounds, leaving you crippled for a day). Meanwhile, he is running around in rags, where you should land stuff with ease. As a whole, I think malform weapon is fine. I think they just need tinkering with. I was thinking of rolling a DK up, just to find out exactly how hard this is. I've had a higher level (Think it only got to lvl 9 before the player wipe) malform before, and it was quite simple to get. I think with my current character had I have had the malform weapon ability it'd be quite high up other. And I hardly ever PK.

I think DK's very viable without this. Magic strike is a bloody nice addition. Ever been hit with a veil, energy drain etc whilst fighting one? It can be crippling. Or even a few magic missles dropping your saves a good 10-12svs.

I never seem to save against any of these spells, which sorta sucks.

I dunno what harden defenses does, but thats the other inclusion whilst I was away.

[TheNewGuy]

Harden defence helps against damage done with staffs.

[mya]

But it carries a foul disadvantage's.

Full Malforms, do not. At least if they do not degrade.

If Masokant has 2 L10 malforms, i do not know.

But that i enjoy fighting him, i do.

I just need to take care to notice when he disarms my weapons.

But i notice the better eq i have the better we do vs him.

Saves aid, and hitdam to.

I bet i could kill him with a Shaman. And i don't play shamans.

One just needs prepare properly for him.

What i am waiting to see is for someone to Rank a Mystic DK. And suddenly cast protective shield at will and throw L60 Dispels.

Who knows what the imms have hidden in those Malforms.

[TheNewGuy]

I don't think you'll kill Masokant with a shaman right now, at least.

[-Totenkopf-]

Following some information from a malform user, I definitely think that some need tweaking. When I get time I'll put a post up in the prayer forum I guess.

[tassinvegeta]

I am wasn't even talking about masokants malforms Couldn't post a log, it'd show malform affects I think malforms are 99% fine. They can stay owner only no sac. I just think a few of their abilities happen a little (err, lot) too often, for their powerfulness. Ever fought Masokant as a communer. Even without his demon skill its a waste of time. At least one round in three, your rooted for a number of hours. Even played a maledictive/casting class vs Imseik. Even tried landing a maledy or similar spell on him after that ability has taken full effect (all of about 5 rounds, leaving you crippled for a day). Meanwhile, he is running around in rags, where you should land stuff with ease. As a whole, I think malform weapon is fine. I think they just need tinkering with. I was thinking of rolling a DK up, just to find out exactly how hard this is. I've had a higher level (Think it only got to lvl 9 before the player wipe) malform before, and it was quite simple to get. I think with my current character had I have had the malform weapon ability it'd be quite high up other. And I hardly ever PK.

I think DK's very viable without this. Magic strike is a bloody nice addition. Ever been hit with a veil, energy drain etc whilst fighting one? It can be crippling. Or even a few magic missles dropping your saves a good 10-12svs.

I never seem to save against any of these spells, which sorta sucks.

I dunno what harden defenses does, but thats the other inclusion whilst I was away.

RE: To all

Yeah I always thought demon dks were too powerful for the dk class and should be removed from it. The reason I never wanted a demon dk is because it felt just way to easy. They have incredibly powerful abilities vs communers and non giant classes. And makes anyone wonder what's the point of rolling anything other than a demon dk right? It makes the other races seem pointless because they will always be inferior. However the major effect of his malform can be completely negated. Its quite ironic how people complain about a certain zerk skill being completely useless but when compared to his religion specific malform its somehow overpowered? Perhaps this is what's supposed to balance the demon dk out with the others in having the most ineffective malform ability?

RE: Toten

About Imseik are you sure he's walking around in rags? I mean I looked at his eq and can see his maledictive saves total at least in the mid -40's or so and that's without unholy. Perhaps his ability may need to be toned on its affect on his opponent only (not himself). Not in duration but in overall strength. But I'd rather much face this than a demon dk as 95% of the combos out there.

RE: Toten

There have also been changes since 1.0 that made it more difficult to get full malforms. Also I have had my high lvl malforms taken away for getting too many cheap kills. Its very tempting to want to do it because it seems the game is coded and encourages but I warn you to be careful about that.

RE: To all

This is a very rare occurrence in which there are several active strong dk's and that's why they are getting the attention. The fact that a class is finally seeing some play shouldn't immediately be looked at as its op because they can do this and this. There needs to be reasons why and well thought out statements. Not just suggestions based off of your personal experiences. Especially if you've never played one.

RE: To all

More things to add. Masokant has been around since the time of Drayson, Breyndyn, and Wyslign which was over a year ago. Mephisoleer has been around a long time as well perhaps sometime last mid of last year. Imseik has been around since at least at the end of last year. It is obvious playing a dk takes quite a commitment. To sum it all up I stand by this statement. Dark Knights are by far the most difficult class to play properly that's probably the reason why I keep playing them is because of the challenge.

[Deykari]

This is a very rare occurrence in which there are several active strong dk's and that's why they are getting the attention. The fact that a class is finally seeing some play shouldn't immediately be looked at as its op because they can do this and this. There needs to be reasons why and well thought out statements. Not just suggestions based off of your personal experiences. Especially if you've never played one.

I think that is a very fair statement, and I have to agree with this.

Dey

[TheNewGuy]

Yeah, most of this discussion is just "flavor of the day" OP-wtfhowdidhedodthat. When I just had come back it was Travens, then it was assassinate (and there I kinda agree tho ), and now it's malforms. What will we have tomorrow?

[Aulian]

I'll never understand how that rule is fun for anyone...outside of my mortal enemies' date=' the elitist vets.[/quote']

Dont be soft, there are vets out there willing to share anything you want to know in PM or something, just not on the forums. If you really want to know, you just have to ask.

[Aulian]

As for the argument itself...

Everyone needs to remember these malforms have not been used largely in the player base because they were all recently revamped and obviously we havent had that many DKs at 50 with level 10's.

Just because it seems like a running argument that this nad this is OP blah blah doesnt mean the issue shouldnt be addressed.