Aabahran ruling: finished.

[L-A]

We have 'RP IMMS' - they are called Heros.

Stop bitching on the forum, roll a character, get yourself recognised and send an application you lazy good-for-nothings.

This should be a snap for all of you who are so 'concerned' about the MUD and want to 'help.' However, I think that this is more likely to be shown as a thread where a select few people (who aren't getting their own way IG) come to act like @$$hats.

I'll give you some advice people:

If you don't like it here don't let the door hit you on the @$$ on the way out. We have a nice community here - too nice for players who continually spit venom when they don't get their own way. Which you're not going to - nothing goes everyone's way all of the time (not even me....:eek: :eek: ) Most people roll with it knowing good times far outwiegh other times. There are not bad times - anyone who tells you there are probably complains about 'bad' sex too....

Seriously, if some of you spent half the time putting effort into the game to make it better the effort to write posts like the start of this thread I reckon FL would have overtaken WOW in popularity by now.

L-A

[L-A]

Grim: I think you just put most of my thoughts into that one post.

GOOD WORK!!!

L-A

[KRins]

I want RP IMMs because people routinely breach the "veil of fantasy". I personally can recall at least 2 of my chars who have been bountied as neutrals who did nothing but help people out. Technically they were both still neutral, as they did not discriminate as to who they helped build up. It is complete and total BS to be bountied by someone you've never met in game or attacked by someone you've never met. Technically in my mind, even the who list isn't RP. Grow up one time people and behave in game as though it was the real world...because it is damn old to have your class/race/attitude/equipment/marital status to somehow be common knowledge to everyone. I know for a scientific fact that people use knowledge from alts to "justify" attacks on others (no I won't point fingers, but I know who you are and I have zero respect for you whatsoever...please go play on the interstate). We really need someone with IMM powers to do some RP enforcement, as there is absolutely none at present. It makes me want to laugh right in Malch's face that this is still listed as anything other than a straight up Godwars MUD.

EDIT: L-A...let me know how the game is when it is just you and Valek telling each other to get out. Seriously, send me a PM when you've driven everyone away with your high-handed "I'm so much smarter than all of you to the point that you voicing your opinion is so damn terrible that your existence in this community is offensive to me" and let me know how you enjoy being all 1 of 1 players.

[L-A]

I don't mind people having a voice - however, the orginal post ISN'T a voice of disent or someone wanting to help. It is the use of a forum to take a cheap shot at a place that has provide many millions of hours of entertainment to many of us.

If you have a valid point POST SOMETHING POSITIVE ON HOW YOU'RE GOING TO HELP.

I'm not sorry I don't hide the fact that those of you who come here and take shots at someone I've been a part of for a decade aren't greeted with a hug but instead get a kick in the head.

For those of you who are shady on the meaning of 'positive contribution':

I have written essays and posted them (I one think its stickied) for those who want to learn to PK.

My PM inbox is always open for people with questions (and has been utilised by players from time to time) - though I usually hand out tasks that you learn from instead of just giving answers. Several players have improved greatly (to the point where they taught me several things and are probably more than my match in PK at the time of posting this).

I will review logs of players PKs and tell them what I think could be changed to benefit them.

I have had a hero (lvl 51) who help many rank to 50 at no gain to myself. I held classes about 'running' to show players basic survival strategies. I ran off douches who tried to PK those who were attending my class.

This doesn't make me any better than anyone, I don't want thanks and I don't want medals and I don't want money (thanks Jack even though I mis-quoted you :-) )

This does mean that I try to contribute in a positive way instead of just complaining about the problem. To my knowledge I have NEVER come here and abused this game for not 'giving' me what I want. For myself (and I suspect all of us) that would be an exercise in hypocrisy - no cost and many hours of fun. C'mon, we are all in debt to FL.

To summarise:

You're either part of the problem or part of the solution.

So, to be quite blunt (and probably earn myself a forum vacation) which of those group do you f***ing fit into? I'll leave that conclusion up to the readers of this.

L-A

Before you click 'reply' and send me a smart mouthed remark about how I'm an elitist or whatever, why don't you think of five ways you can CONTRIBUTE to the MUD that gives you zero or negative gain to yourself.

Come back with the results in three to six months and lets actually see what your effort can get done. You'll be surprised what can be accomplished.

[Mali]

LOL someone rage deleted. Goldbond, please stop throwing temper tantrums on a public forum. Stick around and play but only if you are having fun.

If we really want to grow, we should keep all those new players that come to the forum from seeing negative posts like the original one in this thread. I am in favor of mass censorship as it regards the MUD forums.

Delete this thread, and I'll make a nice new one talking about how great everything is.

[KRins]

1. I routinely reach down to people stuck in the those sometimes irritating 42-49 ranks as a pinn, never asking for anything outside of a little chit chat while we wait for mobs to respawn.

2. I routinely give eq to people to lore/ID. Obviously I don't get anything out of letting someone know the stats/location of my prized few "elite" items. In fact, this practice has gotten more than one item taken by someone outside of my range.

3. I do my absolute best to be both open with the RP of others and to push them to further develop it through probing questions or other actions.

4. I make myself available as a re-equipping partner, never asking for anything...even things that would improve my suit, deferring completely to the other person knowing full well they were recently mad/sad/annoyed at taking a full/partial loot/sac.

5. Perhaps most importantly, I know full well that I am more of a runner than a gunner...yet I tend to come into a very nice piece of eq now and then. I have at least once over the course of every single character to reach lvl 40 that I've ever played given away at least one object most people seem to think is quite nice (Hells Fury, helms of spell-turning, ice armor, etc.) just because the other character gives me a few moments of RP that give me a real glance into those core values that make their character something more than a string of letters and numbers.

Are those the sorts of things you are talking about? I feel like I suspend the usual endless hunt for shinys quite often for the betterment of others. I don't expect anyone to nominate me for FLer of the year or something like that. I just like to know that somewhere someone else has a smile on their face just because I typed a choice few letters in a certain order. It is when someone throws out the RP that should be THE single most important aspect of this game to either make themself feel special in the electronic world by scoring a trash PK on a naked opponent or to actively seek to make a player's experience (notice player not character) anything other than a wonderful delve into a world of magic that you cannot get from anywhere else that I get nine different flavors of pissed off.

[f0xx]

LOL someone rage deleted. Goldbond, please stop throwing temper tantrums on a public forum. Stick around and play but only if you are having fun.

If we really want to grow, we should keep all those new players that come to the forum from seeing negative posts like the original one in this thread. I am in favor of mass censorship as it regards the MUD forums.

Delete this thread, and I'll make a nice new one talking about how great everything is.

Indeed. People like you Goldbound who post threads like this one do quite a lot of damage to the MUD.

Same goes for KRins. I hate to say it really, but ffs, if you are not having fun, don't play, but don't bring your **** and throw it in our faces.

[KRins]

Just as soon as I see proof that you have any flavor of authority foxx, I will stop. Until then, I will use this forum as it is intended. As a place where issues regarding this game are meant to be discussed. Considering I am primarily talking about breaches of RP, I think the lady doth protest too much. Getting a little bent out of shape when people present the problems with the severe lack of RP? Maybe not like it when people bring up trashy play? Makes a man wonder...ya dig?

[Iusedtobesomebody]

Krins,

I'm still very unhappy about this whole 'elitist vet' attitude that many people have. You're a fighter, maybe I can explain it in a way that might be better for you. You're a white belt in karate, yet you want to learn some black belt techniques. How do you gain them? Do you train, and work your way up to it through hard work and perseverance? Or do you go up to your sensei and say, "This is BS. You think you're better than everybody else just because you put 10+ years of work in earning your degree. You should just tell us everything you know. How will new people ever want to learn karate in you don't tell first day peeps the 'secrets'?!?"

Doesn't make sense does it?

[Celerity]

I think one of the major differences is that in karate, black belts aren't running around smoking white belts with that knowledge and stealing their gis

edit: to further clarify:

cooperative learning environment or competitive do-it-all-yourself arena?

If you want to compare FL to the fighting world, it is a lot more like:

You throw somebody random from the street (a newbie) in the ring with a 7-year MMA vetern. When that person gets beat down horribly and KOed in 2 seconds, you say: Video the fight, train, learn from it, and get beat down for the next 7 years. And it is all justified because you have to work HARD to be a good fighter and SHOULD get beat down as a learning experience. You need to get your nose broken to learn how to dodge that punch. We should never teach you how to dodge first, because then you won't learn the lesson fully. You should never be told to wear safety equipment until you've been injured so you can learn for yourself how important it really is. Now that you've learned it is important, we will certainly not help you with the best way to wear it, because that is the next step in your training and it should be done by yourself for the REAL experience. Finally, you add in that the newbie maybe didn't even expect it to be an arena-deathmatch in the first place because he was told that it was a friendly, learner-centered place where you can hang out (RP) and throw some punches (PK).

[Iusedtobesomebody]

re Cel: Very amusing. However, it still doesn't lessen my analogy. You still must learn on your own. You still have a sensei (other players) to nudge you and teach you along the way, but the burden to improve is placed squarely on your own shoulders.

Also, you're talking about a completely different animal.

[Psycho Child]

Its not that bad of an analogy. We claim to be newbie friendly...but its really not that newbie friendly IG. At all.

[KRins]

Definitely clearer once you are in my arena. Yeah you gotta bang and bleed to learn...but there is still someone showing you exactly how a specific technique is done multiple times (to avoid doing something wrong and hurting someone and because a lot of things in this world are counter-intuitive). I'm not at all pretending that I know half of anything, but I do know that I do my best to drop a little ray of knowledge on someone if I am able. Feel like a lot of the time in game this is done very infrequently. In fact, I feel that a lot of people go out of their way to take the 'easy' road and seek out the poorly equipped target. Sure, get your kill...if you catch someone unsanced do you thing, don't ask them if they know about sanctuary/protection/other buffs before you attack because you lose a critical edge. But what I'm asking of the entire community as a whole is to maybe point out something they could have done better. Trust me there are ways to do it regardless of rank/class/race/religion/align/ethos/sexual preference. The nastiest evil cuss you've ever met could stick around a couple of ticks for the person to check their corpse, to 'gloat' about how their opponent was too dumb to remember to do x or y. I don't think I'm half as downtrodden as I may come across sometimes, but I'm not an FL encyclopedia either. I don't want someone to say "You should have dirt kicked, waited for my bash to hit your balance, then done...", but even something like "You foolish halfbreed...have you not the sense to secure yourself a mount in the city?" while a bit...abrasive does enlighten your victim in a way that will benefit them in both a PvP and a PvE fashion without giving away the advantage your greater knowledge of skills or items. Hell...I'd rather take 61 straight *** kickings with a few brief words or tells between each than to go a year as decked as I can get myself watching the merciless slaughter the weaker without a single word. I feel as though it is considerably more towards the latter with at least some of the pbase currently. I'm not saying there should be essay walkthroughs for Winter or Gear posted on GameFAQs.com or something like this is Final Fantasy...ummm what are they up to now...is 13 the next one that will come out eventually? I am saying that I wish we had more of a "teaching hospital" kind of feel to the game. something like here is a little hint, now get cracking...any and all mistakes will most likely cost someone their life but you show some gumption and the drive to do well, the proper path won't be shut to you as we are all here for a common goal.

RE Cel: Exactly what I was thinking. A new kid joined our gym last week, and I've done nothing but work with him on his game. I currently have a nicely gashed eyebrow and a swollen knee from just eating this kids best shots without returning meaningful fire. Every single day he thanks me for forgoing the more active and most likely more helpful training with my usual partners. I know I'm getting nothing but a series of ouchies out of this, but who knows...I'm a terrible BJJ artist...my subs are about as dangerous as Subway's $5 footlongs. This kid could develop into a jits ace one day and turn around to help build me up like I am doing for him now with striking/wrestling/general mechanics. I am willing to bet that even the most experienced player here (I don't know who it is, and identifying that player isn't the point) doesn't know every single thing about the game. Hell...I bet there is some little nugget that even I could show some of the more experienced players they might not know about. My point is...you never know who will be in a position to help you one day, so it is a self-destructive course of action to try to shut out the world.

RE to all posters: I'm sorry if I come across as surly towards the beginning of this thread, it wasn't even something that happened to me in game recently. It is just a build up of this frustration coming out once the thread addressing my irritation gets noticed by me. Anyone who felt like I am specifically attacking them (other than people saying for someone to leave...I don't think that is even necessary, much less helpful), I'm sorry...I owe you a beer.

[Mudder]

Well KRins, I'm with you. I do that and I wish people would do that more often for others. Though there are a decent amount of us that do this. We're likely not a majority but hey, every place has their *******s.

I'm glad your as passionate as you are about helping newbies and just not being an IG dick. I for one want more people to be like that.

[Croyvern]

The point of the original thread is lost to me in the obvious bias of the writer.

As for secrets being horded, while we are not allowed to aid each other learn certain quest information, my characters have always advised others with correct and exact information. Not ONE of my characters has EVER been reprimanded by an immortal for SHARING information. It is the paranoid feeling that the rest of us are hiding something from you that leads to posts like this one attacking our very home. If you wish to know something, ask a HERALD. Heck ask an Immortal, even if they will not tell you out right, I would bet a shiny nickel some random character shares the information with you within a few days. The Imms here support the players far more than they seek credit for.

Side note: Nietzsche also said "God is dead", Poet or not, I never listened to another word he said.

[Celerity]

Oh, that is my signature although it does fit very nicely with these posts!!

[Iusedtobesomebody]

I've said it before, I'll respond to any PMs about things. BUT more often than not, I'll push you in the right direction rather than just outright spoon-feed.

[Dale]

If we were to fix the few minor problems the mud has, I think FL is the best mud out there. I have played every one that pops up in the top 20 and this is by far the best. I might not be the best at pk, or at rp, but I enjoy almost every moment I play this game. And that's all it is, a game. Alot of people seem to get confused about that fact.

WTF is a ghost mud?

And what's a significant player base?

And honestly, I don't care if we have just one IMM leading all cabals, so long as he/she is on enough to satisfy the players, then who cares?

[Twinblades713]

I honestly can't figure how you guys are all over KRins. I've seen his characters and they add to the game, legitimately. My first monk used to challenge his blademaster on the regular and I'd lose each time but dammit if he didn't stick around as long as I needed to teach me how to roll. I can't say I get that good a response from the majority of interactions I have. I don't like to specify characters as it never gets anywhere, but I like leading by example. Ironically, even though I feel what I do doesn't get anywhere, I still do it. I'm moving more and more to the RP side of things, because if I try to pk, I usually end up disappointed by some random crappy situation that always manages to present itself.

I also understand and agree with the fighting analogy.

I would like to see more RP imms. Telling people do get up and do it, doesn't change anything. I get up and RP more than I should. I look at a situation and think "I could probably get a pk here, but I'll RP it first and see if it leads to that." I tend to get the feeling that people think more along the lines of "I want to **** this guy up. Let's create an RP to allow me to do that." or better yet, "Screw RP, this bitch is going down."

I don't want RP imms to get my fix of RP. I want them because they would add to the ambience of the mud. As I stated to someone on aim, It feels to me like FL is becoming a single player game with multiple players on it. That is to say, I look at it like a multiplayer game in that I see how I can help everyone else enjoy it. But what I'm finding is people who play to enjoy the game for themselves. All the mobs in Oblivion don't care if they get multikilled, silently killed, and looted of everything, right? It's as if people are slowly alienating themselves to the fact that there are other players behind the characters they interact with.

This isn't to say everyone is trash, no. But the amount of times I get ignored, or brushed off for trying to solely RP is astounding and saddening.

[Grim_Reefer]

The game is wonderful, hands down the best mud I have played and I am quite a mud enthusiast and have played many extensively. The system we have is great, but the only thing I really think that could be elaborated on to make the mud more enjoyable is more options for RP intensive players. Most of the threads and things we bring up are about race/class combos... oh, this is overpowered, oh this is play-doh, and so on and so forth. I do believe there is much more emphasis put in to PK than RP.

When it comes time to roll a character, whats the first thing you think of? Probably Class/Race/Cabal. It'd be nice if you could think of like, "I would like to play a juggler that puts on a fire-juggling comedy act every week in Rheydin.". If I were to roll that right now and play it out, I am sure I would become quite popular because that is good RP, and the fact that I am not just rolling some killbot would get me noticed. But who wants to do that? Everyone seems to want to be able to "pwn."

Rolling an RP oriented char shouldn't be nearly as horrifying as it is, because you're basically wearing a sign that says, "Free pussy" on your back. I do hope and believe that this new PK system will help fix this.

[Deptore]

Hmm, well I've had my few situations like that. I've been ignored when asking for help when I first came here, I've been silently PK'd ...these things happen to all of us. Yes finding things out for yourself is a learning experience and you'll remember things well but telling everything to someone takes away discovery as much as it does help. I believe 100% that the elite vets did not discover everything they know purely by themselves. When FL was first made you had a mass group of people learning things and spreading their knowledge to others as they did so. You had people dueling to test this against that and while some were better than others each person was around the same on the scale.

In present times this is harder, a newbie asking to spar against an elite vet who is purely here for PK is probably going to get killed after the spar and full looted. With the vet stating that they only fight serious fights and that being full looted is a learning experience. I see pinnacled warriors walking around in mithril and know they're about to get stomped... should I let them pass by and think "It's ok, he'll find better gear in a year or two."?

On the other hand though, new players do a lot of punishment to themselves. We have an Academy made for teaching players and it ends up being the clan for Herald. I think that the Academy should be separated from Herald allowing everyone to be inside, a collective group who wants to better their knowledge of the lands. This way if the new player wants that Paladin Knight he can have it while also being able to take classes at the Academy.

FL IS a newbie friendly mud, on the forum atleast. Friendly to the point that we do not push new players away, but we must teach them to grow in the shadows. A new player jsut can't feel like they can come here and ask for help or give ideas without being ridiculed, told to grow up, or just pushed to the side and told to test multiple classes at 50 when they've done all they can to get one to 50 and are dying left and right. I'd like for new players to feel more like we're their big brother, we may pick on them or beat them up but we're also here to help them and make them stronger.

I know this sounds like I'm on both sides of the argument and really I am, I don't believe that the restrictions on giving away knowledge should be done away with. But I do believe they should be looked into and maybe made more lenient.

RP IMM- Great idea, I've seen it implemented before in areas although I don't think that they should be wizinvis or incog. We'll see what's to come I guess, the staff we have now is great and if there's something that'll help the mud I don't see them passing it up 'just because'.

[Malchaeius]

The reports of this MUD's death have been greatly exaggerated.

[Mudder]

I believe the Academy was already made into a clan and a faction, with both being able to communicate as one.

Question: If I am already in a clan and I say "Join" to the Herald guard, will I be inducted into the clan or faction? I don't want to lose my current clan.

[Mudder]

Side note: Nietzsche also said "God is dead"' date=' Poet or not, I never listened to another word he said.[/quote']

So if anyone lacks blind faith you immediately write them off as not worth listening to? Interesting.

[Grim_Reefer]

The reports of this MUD's death have been greatly exaggerated.

Definately don't think its dead, but its just been exactly the same my entire 6 years of being here (with the exception of a couple of areas and some class tweaks and blademasters).