ELF/DROW FIRED WEAPONS
elf/drow automastery in fired weapons. Super sharpshooters/eyesight, and gives a buff to anyone who wants to try to handle an elf/drow warrior/ninja/ranger. Gives more use to these underused races in these classes. Wouldn’t affect the elf/drow ‘power’classes at all.
This change helps to make these races a bit better at melee classes without making them better at the classes they are 'strong' at.
I really, really, really like this idea, and it seems very much balanced to me.
Dey
I like this a lot as well. I'd love to see some elf archers.
why not make an elf ranger and pick the selectable?
Well, because at the moment, elf is (IMO) an inferior choice for ranger. Give them automastery in fired weapons, it'd make them a good deal more worthwhile.
inferior as compared to what? if you want to play an elf ranger, play one. don't shun them because you want to "min/max" your next PK monster.
Ideally, all race/class combinations would be perfectly balanced, yet different. Nobody is idealistic enough to claim that they are now (I hope not at least).
If these combos are balanced, one doesn't even need to consider min/maxing when thinking of what one wants to play.
Fired weapons automastery isn't really going to make an elf warrior/ranger a suddenly GREAT choice, but it is a cool little perk that fits their RP VERY well. It will help their pk a bit, makes them more diversified (them as in the race and the entire game in general), and is pretty 'cool'.
ideally, they wouldn't be balanced. otherwise, they'd all be humans with other names. different races should have different strengths and weaknesses. my point was, "inferior" as compared to what? an ogre? what? just because they might be considered a "weak" combo (and this is only when compared to other races, yes?), it is not a reason to not play one. too many people think only in terms of "what can this combo do for me in PK?", instead of what can -I- make of this character?
i like the idea, just thought you could already do this with an elf ranger archer. all it would take is some time to master what you need to. they don't "need" an automaster.
ideally, they wouldn't be balanced. otherwise, they'd all be humans with other names. different races should have different strengths and weaknesses.
We DO have humans with different sizes, skills, stats, perks, flaws, and race names. Then again, that is all that seperates race in this game. This change actually makes them more different, not the same.
When somebody talks about 'balance', they do not mean 'uniformity'. While that is probably the easiest way to create perfect balance, it is the most boring.
Like I said, if races had roughly comparable advantages/disadvantages (which they do) based on CLASS COMBINATIONS (which they don't really), you would never need to worry about a 'weak combo'.
When I say advantage/disadvantage, I mean if you took racial perks/flaws and give them numbers, take class perks/flaws and give them numbers, add the totals up, and then compare to other race totals, they would be roughly equal. This does not mean the SAME. Those advantages/disadvantages can be VASTLY different, in both specialization and strength.
all it would take is some time to master what you need to. they don't "need" an automaster
Also, automastery means 103% natural prof, so no, you can't just train it.
Furthermore, when considering making balancing changes, the primary thing to keep in mind is PK balance. This is a coding change geared toward solidifying a racial perk (dealing with PK) that is easily RPed, but not backed up by the code. This is the difference between SAYING (RP) you are a good shot, and actually being one (PK-code).
just thought you could already do this with an elf ranger archer
Finally, a ranger archer shows a professional specialization, not a racial quality. A stone giant archer is just as good as a shot as an elf archer now. This change is showing that it is a racial quality that makes them better (even elf warriors are good with bows). An elf ranger archer would be someone who has a lot of talent that further specializes on it, making them somewhat better shots than the said stone giant.
edit: more typos..
very well thought out argument. however, i did say i liked the idea just questioned the "why?" of it (as well as Pali's statement of "inferior"). you can't train to 103, yes. but you can to 100, and coming from someone who doesn't train (you), is that 3% really gonna aid you THAT much? would it enhance an elf warrior/ranger? yes. would it overpower them? no. is it a much needed improvement to a race in dire need of help? no.
It makes a lot of sense for Elves to have mastery at ranged attacks.
Elves should be one of the prime race for rangers, not ogres. At least acording to Lotr RP.
Really according to most fantasy settings, but then LotR set the standard so yeah...
but you can to 100, and coming from someone who doesn't train (you), is that 3% really gonna aid you THAT much?
absolutely! If someone never trains and gets an automastery, that is like a +25% bonus, making it even more valuable.
is it a much needed improvement to a race in dire need of help? no.
You are stuck in the mindset of looking at it as through the lens of only race. Look at this change through race/class combos, which is how I've been trying to present it. Do elf rangers/warriors need help? The answer may be different...this change does not empower ALL elves.
I think you generally agree with the idea, but are making the point that this kind of change isn't a priority. Zerks should be looked at first, right? 
But yeah, let the coder prioritize...the change doesn't need to come suddenly. It can be added to the bottom of the pile or whatever, but being too busy isn't a reason in itself to deny a change. This is something for the staff to figure out, not us, I think.
I post these ideas on the public forum so I can get feedback and ideas from the rest of the playerbase. Barring the coding workload, what do you think of the idea?
On another note, this is one of the easiest changes that could be implemented...
edit: I think we've been over this in another thread! - Didn't you learn by now to not disagree with me? 
Celerity is overpowered. I think Behren's first priority should be to gimp her.
Dey
I think this is the closest we've ever come to being compared to Lord of the Rings.
absolutely! If someone never trains and gets an automastery' date=' that is like a +25% bonus, making it even more valuable.[/quote']
that's like saying a DK who never trains hellstream, who sudden got it, it would be a 75% bonus. automasteries are a nice little bonus, but hardly essential. they should reflect a part of the race's RP. which, in this case, i don't see why (mechanicly) they wouldn't have it. and you're right, i am debating the "need" for it, not the idea itself. would i try an auto-mastered archer elf ranger? sure, why not? might be fun. but i'm not gonna put it above other things that need looked into first.
i also am debating Pali's "inferior" statement.
I think we've been over this in another thread! - Didn't you learn by now to not disagree with me?
i don't have an automastery in learning. i have to do it the old-fashioned way. i'm still training.
PK potential is not my first choice when it comes to making a character, but it's a big part of it. I VERY much enjoy PK, and I don't like having weak combos. I'll freely admit that. That's why I don't play halfling warriors, I play halfling blademasters. I don't play faerie thieves, I play faerie invokers. I can come up with fun RP for just about any class/race combo, it's a matter of finding a combo that I won't become fed up with the vast weaknesses of.
And when we have an elf warrior/ranger that does as well as an ogre warrior/ranger, I'll consider them equal. As it is, I'd say an ogre ranger is far superior.
that's like saying a DK who never trains hellstream, who sudden got it, it would be a 75% bonus.
just want to point out that this isn't a good analogy. I'm not proposing that you give fired weapons to all elves. Adding skills is a completely different balance issue. Elf warriors would not gain a new skill. It would be simply automastered.
So, a better analogy would be: a dk that never trains and gets automastery in fireball giving 100% would have ~25% advantage IN FIREBALL. The class itself does not gain a 25% advantage, just the skill.
If an elf warrior never trained fired weapons and got this automastery, it would be a 25% boost to their fired weapons skill (approx. since the percents aren't -actual- percents and difference between 99 and 100% and 101% and so on). It would NOT make elf warriors 25% better.
that's like saying a DK who never trains hellstream' date=' who sudden got it, it would be a 75% bonus.[/quote']
DK's got hellstream with the new changes?!
Count me in!
I don't like having weak combos
isn't that the biggest challenge? taking a "weak" combo, and proving it's not weak? being a long-time player (and a good PKer), wouldn't you keep pushing yourself? you know i have nothing but respect for you Pali, but that kinda disappointed me a bit. shrug
but it's nothing to tweak out over. we all play what we want.