Elf/drow Fired Weapons

Yeah, the argument for variable difficulty is legit, but it does not justify imbalance at -base- level.

If you really want a challenge, just don't max your stats or take a roll of 30 or something...you can easily adjust the game difficulty by yourself.

However, it should NOT be balanced so that the difficulty is IMPOSED (by weak combinations). This creates confusion and since the vast majority of people want to try to compete at the average level, base-level imbalances are not good..especially without some disclaimer that says: This class/race sucks!

just want to point out that this isn't a good analogy.

i know, trying to respond and play morrowind. not working too good.

I'm not proposing that you give fired weapons to all elves.

i never said you did. just automasteries to those who have said skill. i know what you're saying, and i know what i'm saying. i think we both agree with the idea. at least, i think we do.

especially without some disclaimer that says: This class/race sucks!

healers have that, don't they?

Healers are awesom at surviving, and is good at searching out new equipment. Some race/class combinations will always be weak in comparision, because the different classes' success is based on various attributes coming from the race - intelligence for mages, strength and size for warriors and so on and so forth. I would actually love to see some minor buffs for races that are underrepresented in various guild, such as elves and drow warriors and rangers. Their ninjas are strong enough already, but I still like this idea a lot.

so......................................................any chance for this?

ZOMG!

Celerity is overpowered, with t3h thr3@d r3surr3cti0nz

I like the idea, since it would provide a boost to elf and drow melees, which seem to be very few and far between.

Only problem is that ninjas get fired weapon, unless I am totally stoned today. Maybe it would make ppl do drow ninjas instead of warriors. And we SOOO don't need more ninjas.

Celerity's idea I like

if anything elf/drow need a smackdown such as a more accesible vuln, rather than a tone up, like a weapon buff. and fire/storm/stone giant melees need either a vuln slight tone down or anything at all else to make the probability of having a giant melee actually stick around for awhile.

if anything elf/drow need a smackdown such as a more accesible vuln' date=' rather than a tone up, like a weapon buff. and fire/storm/stone giant melees need either a vuln slight tone down or anything at all else to make the probability of having a giant melee actually stick around for awhile.[/quote']

I disagree completely. Melees are not as survivable as communers/mages, and are not meant to be. That's why they rank up so easily, and have such high power peaks with the right eq. Elves/drow getting fired weapons would not strengthen elf/drow communers/mages in the slightest, but make melees of the races slightly more viable.

okay the way i see it is, elves already make sick mages/communers. drow are already good choices for rogues. both elves and drow are already sick choices for melee/communer/caster hybrids. that's 3 major categories of classes they are already sick at. why should it be any kind of priority to make some slight advantage to ease their troubles in the melee realm? these two races already have their fat share of the class pie. where as an example i point to elemental giants and how fragile they already are at melee. that's even taking into consideration that melee's arent meant to last if that could be taken as truth.

I don't see fires as fragile at all. Yes, they have a vuln to ice attacks. They also have a bonus to fire attacks and a high amount of hp. The problem of giving damage vulns to low-hp races is that they can't handle those vulns like a fire giant or dwarf can.

And I also agree that this is a low priority, but on the other hand, it's also a (presumably) easy to code change that would spice up the game a little bit and balance elf melees somewhat more. Rebalancing fire giants by weakening their vuln would be a big change taking a lot of time.

If you had read through the rest of this thread, you would find that we are talking about race/class COMBOS rather than simply which race is better at which classes. Maybe elf invokers are tough. This thread has NOTHING to do with elf invokers (outside of slightly changing fights between fired weapons elves and that said invoker maybe).

You never have just an 'elf' or just a 'warrior'...there is always some sort of combination of race and class so they MUST be evaluated TOGETHER, not seperately. If a race is GREAT for some classes and sucks for others..it isn't balanced well. All races should be an average (acceptable) choice for all classes (that they are open for)...while maintaining their uniqueness. THIS DOES NOT MEAN ALL RACES SHOULD BE THE SAME!

If you believe some other change needs to be done about fire giants, do it in a different thread...this isn't the one to talk about it in. If you believe that giving this change to elf warriors would make them unbalanced, this is the thread for that.

Let the coders worry about the prioritizing and time-to-make issues...we (the playerbase) should talk about the balance/interest/rp/etc issues.

You never have just an 'elf' or just a 'warrior'...there is always some sort of combination of race and class so they MUST be evaluated TOGETHER' date=' not seperately. If a race is GREAT for some classes and sucks for others..it isn't balanced well. All races should be an average (acceptable) choice for all classes (that they are open for)...while maintaining their uniqueness. [b']THIS DOES NOT MEAN ALL RACES SHOULD BE THE SAME!

I completely disagree with you.

If this were the case, everyone could kill everyone with no effort. Every race has their own natural abilities. Should we make halflings large sized because they get pounded on by giants? No. A halfling SHOULD get pounded on by a giant. Something that's three feet tall would snap like a TWIG after one blow from something fifteen, twenty, even thirty feet tall. That's not unbalanced - that's LOGIC.

Is an elf warrior a playable choice? Sure. Is an elf invoker a strong choice? You better believe it.

Each race has their own strengths and weaknesses. That shouldn't change, and hopefully never will. The day a gnome warrior outmelees an equally equipped ogre warrior, is the day I will leave FL.

Right, that's why you don't balance it so simply. Like I capped and bolded, it does not mean the races will be the same and have equal abilities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A halfling SHOULD get pounded if the halfling engages the giant in such a way for the giant to pound on them.

If a gnome and ogre went toe to toe in same eq, of course the ogre would win.

HOWEVER, if you wanted to balance a gnome warrior, you would ensure that the gnome would have a much easier time getting eq/better eq OR had sizable advantages against OTHER combos (ultimately equal to the ogre's advantage over the gnome). Just because they are all equal, doesn't mean that all of them can fight ANY INDIVIDUAL OTHER COMBO equally well.

The day a gnome warrior outmelees an equally equipped ogre warrior' date=' is the day I will leave FL.[/quote']

I've seen an uncaballed gnome warrior out melee a Warmaster ogre warrior.

Twice.

Both semi-decked. Both immensly trained. Both with their own 'tricks' to play.

Need help with those bags?

I sort of agree with Celerity, if a race/class is available is shoul dhave half a chance. When was the last time you saw an avian warrior, noone plays them cuz presumably they suck. So why is it allowed at all? Giants would make awful invokers or bmgs, hence they are not even allowed to be said classes, but we allow anything to be a warrior except a fairy, there should be something these sub par warriors should be able to do to make them somewhat useful. Same with rangers, there are a lot fo choices, but ogres seem to dominate, as with warriors and zerkers.

elf and drow warriors definitly doesn't need a smackdown.