haymaker

[Guest emp_newb]

Says the Squib

You pwnt yourself.

[mya]

Just to remember that Zerk is the class that has the potential to do more Damage per meele hit on the game. Zerks have a hidden damage multiplier.

A Ogre Zerk Devastation Raged with a two Handed weapon hits like a ton of bricks. He will out damage any warrior meele hit.

Sure a Warrior can an extra attacks and Arrows, but the Zerk can cleave weapons or Drop Sanctuary. From a single command a Zerk can spike his damage to the double or more. (Cleave,HAy)

[oldskooler]

I am so insanely tired of all the INSANE amount of whining this forum has degraded to. There is a circle of people constantly whining about skills they cannot use being useless or broken. Ya know what man, you cannot play a zerk at all. Not because the class is broken, but because you suck with them. Someone had to say it I guess I will take it up.

And yes, I DO need to say use unknown and vuln weapons. Obviously someone is having trouble with it. Mephisoleer was decked, and had a mid to higher level malform (was titled). He attacked my rank 45 ogre zerk who was in mithril. Guess what happened? He died. I have had quite a few times as a zerk that it was not an uphill battle.

Vs pallies I found it a rather easy time (except you pali you bastard), Vs non communers, i had a very easy time. Versus melee that I could exploit a vuln on, I had a very easy time. Vs smart warriors who used their skills properly I had a hard time.

I swear to god these posts are happening with 100x the frequency they EVER have. Unless you can supply me with logs of zerks performing 100% as they should, and still getting utterly tooled, I do not wanna hear this crap anymore. Zerks are fine, they need nothing but a smart, skilled player.

You want proof zerks are fine? Look at Wuzor vs Gorbak. That pk was to the WIRE, and Gorbak lost because he failed to dual wield, not because zerks suck. So unless you can explain to me why gorbak is an exception (which I am sure SOMEONE will try to do) this zerk crap needs to just die.

Again I fall back onto the fact that just because you cannot do **** with a class, does not mean it sucks. I cannot play: Ninjas, Dks, Bmgs, and necros. Not because those classes suck, it is because I cannot get into playing them. I just cannot play with the tactics they need to be effective.

First, take a chill pill or try breathing while typing, it works wonders.

Second, if you notice you said the keyword OGRE I have since realized that ogre berserkers are better than minotaurs.

Lastly, I don't know who you're talking about sucks with berserkers. I don't suck with any char. I'd like to see your logs of you beating all these people with ease. I will send you the logs I have through email later tonight no problem so you can see for yourself. Don't call someone out unless you're ready to have them show you for yourself.

[L-A]

Just to remember that Zerk is the class that has the potential to do more Damage per meele hit on the game. Zerks have a hidden damage multiplier.

I'll call you on this one - what's the 'hidden damage multiplier?'

In my experiences, if I take a 40/40 hit dam fg zerk and warrior they hit the same damage on the same mob with the same weapon. That says its treated the same. In fact, with dimishing returns after a certain hit/dam zerks suffer because the large bonus of rage doesn't stack to infinitum. Hence my suggestion of removing dimishing returns for zerks only to see how balanced it is.

A Ogre Zerk Devastation Raged with a two Handed weapon hits like a ton of bricks. He will out damage any warrior meele hit.

Sure a Warrior can an extra attacks and Arrows, but the Zerk can cleave weapons or Drop Sanctuary. From a single command a Zerk can spike his damage to the double or more. (Cleave,HAy)

You're all talk/theory here - where as I've actually played zerks at pinnacle and understand the reality. Anything can happen in theory - reality is quite different.

I'm sure I have a log of my WM Leader zerk fully powered being beaten by a warrior with a staff (no bow) AFTER I take his sanctuary. The guy loses about 40% of his health. Please do not sit here and tell me a zerk will beat a warrior in straight up combat - it won't happen. If all you do is rage;dirt you will be DEAD in less than twenty rounds.

I've loved to be proven wrong - because I'd love to find out how to get more power out of my berzerkers...

L-A

[L-A]

I'm a great PK'er but' date=' im not lying about the 2 hits a round thing. I have ppl who can attest.[/quote']

You're weapon choice is holding you back. Simple as that.

L-A

[L-A]

Lastly, I hate you all because now I really want to roll another berserker!!!

In the words of Mali:

I HATE YOU ALL!!!

L-A

[-Totenkopf-]

Cool, something for me to kill.

[Mudder]

I agree. Suggesting ideas is a great way to help the game.

Whining that skills are broken is just bleh.

It's really funny that you say that. Because this entire thread has been about ways to improve elements of the game that are far from perfect. Yet the only thing you have done in this thread is whine and cry, bitch and moan, about how you don't agree. You have suggested nothing. You have proven nothing. The only stance you take is that you played one berserker before and felt it was fine.

Great. You don't think the class needs help. But guess what? Many many experienced players(who have played multiple berserkers) feel that they are underpowered compared to other classes. Your only response is to say that we all suck. Emp. Shut up unless you are going to be productive.

[Zhokril]

That's quite enough. There is no reason why mature people cannot carry out a discussion without breaking down to slinging insults at each other, or telling them to "shut up". I would hope that you all would like to think of yourselves as belonging in that category. You should all show each other respect, regardless of any disagreements.

[Deptore]

I'm not sure if the smiley can cover all of that, you might want to add another for good measure Mudder. (In other words, lay off a little please?)

Zerks do need improvement, this has been discussed for years and for good reasons. Maybe you did good with your zerk emp, but if 1 out of 50 work is that enough? I've played them and even with the underpoweredness I was just not satisfied with a Zerk, they just didn't fit the idea that I had in my head of what a Zerk was when I first came here.

Berserker-

You should hit harder, hit more, be less accurate and defensive than other classes. That's my opinion.

Damage- You're ONLY thinking about busting that guy's skull in rage, so why should a warrior who's concentrating on more than just that be able to do as much/more damage? I've three ideas for this, they could even depend on the type of rage if you want to use both.

1- Get rid of diminishing returns, let a Berserker do some nasty max damage.

2- Get rid of diminishing returns, and add a bonus to enhanced damage.

3- Get rid of diminishing returns, add the bonus and give a second skill to enhance damage further. In this extreme rage you can ONLY think about the combat. While fighting you may not use where, scan, or use any items. You're a bloodthirsy animal that's just out to bust a skull.

Hit more: As a berserker you're swinging your weapons like crazy, not because you have the agility of a thief but because unlike a warrior you're not worried about pacing yourself in the fight. You want to cut this guy's arms off NOW. Because of that shouldn't Berserkers hit more in combat?

Less Accuracy: I never understood the large rage bonus to accuracy, wouldn't a calm person who's looking for openings and pacing his attacks find more places to hit his opponent than someone who has turned into a windmill in a hurricane? You're not looking for an opening, or trying to make one.

Less Defense: Already in place, stronger the rage the less defense you should have.

Berserker's skills are fine as they are from my experiences, it was the way they fight that always sickened me. Roar, Bodyslam, Haymaker, Headbutt... these are all great skills and used right they're devastating. I just always thought a Warrior should be the more defensive of the two, swinging less (not counting riposte here) but more accurate and doing less damage.

[Guest emp_newb]

In response to me playing one berserker, I have ACTUALLY played a few. Goodie dwarf, 2 fire giants, 2 ogres, and countless others that never pinned. My first cabaled char was an ogre zerk non pinn. So I HAVE played a few berserkers, as well as spending my first 3-4 years in fl playing solely melee.

[Mudder]

Your right. I was harsher than I should have been but I just got fed up with Emp's posts lately.

Sorry to be a jerk. And Deptore, yes, Perhaps I should also add a to my post. Lol.

[jibber]

Diminishing returns are lame.

[mya]

Diminishing returns are lame.

What about fighting a Invocker casting L60 hellstream ?

Can you imagine a Zerk getting a Average 30 weapon and doing around 42 damage and then raging and having 80 damroll and doing a total of 122 damage on average for each hit ?

It would be murder on Mages. Literally, people would fight by flee,murder.

[f0xx]

What about fighting a Invocker casting L60 hellstream ?

Can you imagine a Zerk getting a Average 30 weapon and doing around 42 damage and then raging and having 80 damroll and doing a total of 122 damage on average for each hit ?

It would be murder on Mages. Literally, people would fight by flee,murder.

Is it the weather or Mya is just friggin' hot?

[jibber]

I think those who spend the time 'getting' that extremely kick *** equipment should be rewarded in doing so. And I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear -- I meant I hate diminishing returns on hitroll and damroll. Just because you think it will do 122 damage per hit on someone doesn't mean it's bad.

[Questioner]

If you can't solo that mob (i.e. Temor) then solo a player who has that item you want. Haymaker definitely works against players, but it is not the end-all-be-all skill.

[Pali]

Just because you think it will do 122 damage per hit on someone doesn't mean it's bad.

Actually, yeah, it does. I've seen melees capable of doing that kind of damage per hit, and no, it is not fun to fight against in the slightest.

Diminishing returns are there for a reason: to prevent melees from getting TOO strong. Even assuming zerks need a boost, removing diminishing returns is NOT the way to fix them.

It'd also make the game even MORE eq based than it already is, something I am not in favor of. Ideally, eq is meant to give you an edge, to enhance the skillset of your combo and make it more effective - not to make it so that you win every fight without putting a command in because you do such incredible damage that nobody without comparable eq can even fight you.

[L-A]

Actually, yeah, it does. I've seen melees capable of doing that kind of damage per hit, and no, it is not fun to fight against in the slightest.

Diminishing returns are there for a reason: to prevent melees from getting TOO strong. Even assuming zerks need a boost, removing diminishing returns is NOT the way to fix them.

It'd also make the game even MORE eq based than it already is, something I am not in favor of. Ideally, eq is meant to give you an edge, to enhance the skillset of your combo and make it more effective - not to make it so that you win every fight without putting a command in because you do such incredible damage that nobody without comparable eq can even fight you.

We're all a bit ahead of ourselves aren't we? Since we want to use that 122 damage that Mya came up with why don't you take everything into consideration - becasuse I can already get 70/70 and 80/80 on a zerk without going to the factions let alone anywhere else.

122 damage - sure. To someone sitting in CS. Factor in sanc, protection, stone skin and ac and guess what - its pretty much the damage you are seeing now from melee's. I get a figure of ~35 damage before I know what effect AC does. That's a maim/MUTILATE - and we all know that's possible through sanc with the right setup on any melee atm. Again, I have NOT factored in AC's effect on damage which is why it looks high - its clearly lower in actual practice.

Dimishing returns was NOT predomiantly about damage. Certain defenses are based on hitroll - and when you have LOTS more than an opponent certain defenses don't work as well. Thus you hit them a lot more and they hit you a lot less. It was brought in because it was simply easier for a melee to load ALL hit dam and not worry about saves if they could get hit/dam to a certain point. If all you want is hard just get your damroll to 90 or 100 - which is pretty easy if you don't want saves on a zerk.

Also, a caster has f*** all hitroll (unless you're playing a melee cleric which I haven't seen in a LONG time) vs a melee so its a NON-ISSUE anyway. Mostly its was a melee vs melee thing with someone toting 85 or 90 hit roll raping those with 50, 60 and sometimes 70. My 60/60 hit roll warrior will still give an abosolute beating to your 30/30 hit roll warrior (assuming same race etc).

For a zerk to get that advantage they would have to rage - which eliminates some of thier defenses. All they would gain is they would hit a bit more often assuming a melee had significan't lower hitroll - which may or may not be the case depending if people were wearing saves or not.

I was always temtped ONLY To dress a zerk in +hit/dam gear and see what happened but never did it. Having some level of saves was always preferable to myself.

I still don't see a great way this would overpower zerks - merely make them more effective against melee's (who already bend them over). Effect on casters would be almost nil. Maybe a little more damage.

L-A

PS - I'm still waiting for word of the 'secret damage multiplier' on zerks....

PPS - Pali, look around. The game is already eq based. The days of fighting in tainted/mithril with a rare weapon a long gone. Eq dependance has always been true of melee's anyway.

[Pali]

I recognize diminishing returns aren't purely about damroll. I also recognize that this game is far too eq-centric as it is. Nowhere in my post did I say otherwise.

What I did say was that the point of diminishing returns is to make the game actually a little LESS eq-centric... and does anyone have a problem with that goal?

[Dale]

Is it the weather or Mya is just friggin' hot?

She is just hot, atleast I like to think so.